To wonder where the fathers of these abused children were?

(38 Posts)
juneau Fri 20-Sep-13 16:55:28

Baby P. Daniel Pelka. Hamza Khan. All these children were neglected, abused, tortured and, ultimately, killed by their mothers over a period of many months. So where the bloody hell were the fathers? It seems clear in all these cases that the fathers were aware that there were serious issues, yet it's only the SS and other agencies who are being hounded and blamed. So what about the other person with parental responsibility?

meditrina Fri 20-Sep-13 16:59:46

Daniel Pelka's father was in Poland, and had no idea.

Baby P and Hamza Khan's fathers were NRPs. I can't remember how much contact it was reported they had with their children, nor if they had PR.

But the fathers were not the ones who killed those children.

Norfolkpenguin83 Fri 20-Sep-13 17:12:36

They were probably having the same trouble a lot of men have seeing their children after a split. News reports say Hamza's dad had begged police for help because he was worried.

HeySoulSister Fri 20-Sep-13 17:16:52

have you seen what goes on in the family courts? dads fighting for access.....if they can afford the court fee's....its not always that black and white

mothers can block contact...make it hard....new partners come along ( and in 2 of those cases mentioned they have been complicit in the abuse)

you see it here every weekend....@aibu to stop dc contact with their dad' usually over something petty,but they get 'yanbu'

expatinscotland Fri 20-Sep-13 17:20:26

Or the mother moves in with new partner far away from the father.

I don't know an awful lot about any of the cases tbh.other than that they were tragic. Having said that, I think that both parents have a responsibility to ensure that their children are cared for properly. I don't accept that being in a different country is an excuse to abdicate that responsibility, (unless he was deported). From meditrina 's post, it sounds as if at least one of the fathers did their best to alert the police of hos concerns.

I also know, from experience, that sometimes it can be incredibly difficult for fathers to get that contact, or their concerns to be taken seriously. It can look like sour grapes, and all too often it is assumed that the mother is going to be the best person to have residency of the children after a split. All too often, it is easy for mothers to blacken the fathers name but very hard for men to get SS/ police to listen to a bad word against a mother.

I just feel so sad that yet again, as a nation, we let these children down. sad

diddl Fri 20-Sep-13 17:22:56

Well, OT here, but it seems to me that it's the lack of all the "evidence" in one place-what am I trying to say there?

One Dr sees one injury, someone else sees something else...

Wonder how come Daniel Ps mother & father were in separate countries?

gordyslovesheep Fri 20-Sep-13 17:26:59

they where Polish - they split up - he returned to Poland

juneau Fri 20-Sep-13 17:46:26

Well the article I just read in the Guardian: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/sep/20/hamzah-khan-brother-court-evidence
talks about how the father and the brother knew about the neglect and threatened to go to the police or SS about it, but neither of them did.

I'm not saying the father's killed their DC, just that they could've done something or done more to help, rather than all the blame going to outside agencies (who also had their part to play - I'm not saying they didn't).

Damnautocorrect Fri 20-Sep-13 17:55:49

Khans dad did go to the police about it but was ignored, admittedly it was when he was questioned for being violent towards the babies mum. He told them she was an alcoholic and was starving the child.
He should have fought more though.
Let's not forget abused kids learn behaviour quickly and learn what to say and what not to say.

Fefifo Fri 20-Sep-13 18:04:01

YANBU and it actually makes me feel uneasy when the fathers in such cases are very vocal about their anger with the public bodies that failed to protect their children, even more so when they themselves have raised concerns prior to their children's deaths. If I believed my child was being abused by the RP, in their situation I would stand outside the house and scream if necessary. I'd probably be arrested but would come back the next day and continue or some such action. I know people will be along to say no you wouldn't it's not that simple, but actually yes I would. I would do absolutely anything in my power to protect my children from harm, and frankly I don't think a few phone calls or even meetings with child protection would cover it.

As the public though, we can judge these men as much or little as we like but their accountability has actually never been to anyone other than the child they let down, and they must live with that. SS and other agencies are hounded and blamed by the media and public because they are funded by us and accountable to us, when they fail in their jobs.

Onesleeptillwembley Fri 20-Sep-13 18:05:10

Hamas dad only mentioned it in mitigation whilst under arrest for assaulting the mother. He did nothing afterwards. He is almost as much to blame IMO.

Onesleeptillwembley Fri 20-Sep-13 18:07:03

Hamza's, not Hamas. Autocorrect. It's important to remember that poor child.

HeySoulSister Fri 20-Sep-13 18:13:01

nobody here knows the full story anyway.....so how can you judge?

FreudiansSlipper Fri 20-Sep-13 18:15:46

it is highly likely if the mother has got involved with an abusive partner the father is going to struggle getting to see his child/children as he will start manipulating and controlling them all before the violence starts

that is not to excuse the nrp who do not bother with their children

Onesleeptillwembley Fri 20-Sep-13 18:23:08

He has admitted he knew the problems with the child. Apart from mentioning it once to try to mitigate his own actions he did nothing else. Lets just say it's very the city I live on the outskirts of. I can and will judge that.

ChristineDaae Fri 20-Sep-13 18:28:05

All of those situations were so heartbreaking. The fathers have to live with their lack of action for the rest of their lives. I think that's enough without people judging them. None of us fully know their situation, so can't say what we would do if faced with it, at the end of the day we have no clue WHAT situation they were faced with.
Hopefully the recent cases will remind us all that it takes a community to raise a child, and not be scared to raise concerns when we have them. Better safe than sorry.
RIP to those tragic babies

HeySoulSister Fri 20-Sep-13 18:29:53

'He did nothing else' ??

Seriously? You know this as fact? How?

Onesleeptillwembley Fri 20-Sep-13 18:30:43

Wait and see what comes out later. He is a seriously unpleasant individual.

HeySoulSister Fri 20-Sep-13 18:32:46

Nowhere near as unpleasant as the 'mother'

Onesleeptillwembley Fri 20-Sep-13 18:36:10

Agreed.

BellEndTent Fri 20-Sep-13 18:36:23

If I thought my child was being abused by the other parent they would not be anywhere near the other parent.

If I was unable to win custody/contact myself due to the circumstances then I would involve ss and not rest until the child was out of that environment. Even a care situation would be preferable.

How did that man fall asleep at night knowing his son was out there somewhere, hungry and suffering? Bastard. I have no words for the mother.

tethersend Fri 20-Sep-13 18:40:10

What I don't understand is how there could have been a 21month gap between Hamza's death and the discovery of his body. Did his father not wonder where he was, especially if he had concerns about his welfare?

Poor little thing.

littleducks Fri 20-Sep-13 18:42:52

Its a horrible case. Hard to say if the father was abusing the mum, she was with him along time (older son aged 22 she is 43) and this led to alcoholism and such mental health issues that she left child to die or if father was trying his hardest and the assault
t charge came about from him arguing with her due to the neglect if his son.

Probably was more complicated than either explanation. Older son appears to hate his mother (no idea how he feels about father from articles) which makes me wonder if she had been harsh with him too. At his age I would have thought that he should have done something too.....but maybe I'm being too harsh if he had been similarly neglected or abused or found it too hard to betray his mum.

BellEndTent Fri 20-Sep-13 18:43:12

Surely there is something he can be charged with if it can be proved he knew there was abuse as Hamza's parent? Failure to protect?

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