To want to tell my DD that her 'friend' is no such thing....and not so politely...

(49 Posts)
unlucky83 Tue 26-Feb-13 15:03:17

DD is just 12, 'friend' is 13 and definitely more worldly wise. 'Friend' has older siblings whereas DD is eldest
They have know each other for just over 2 years - 'friend' joined DD at primary school. Know 'friends' parents a bit - they are quite strict and definitely are ambitious for their children.
I think 'friend' is a nasty manipulative b*tch...but maybe I'm over reacting
Soon after meeting they were best friends ...fell out a bit....had other best friends and now 'friend' is DD's bestest bestest friend again...
All this sounds like girls of that age...
but....
At Primary they chose two children with 'natural musical ability' for free piano lessons - DD was chosen. 'Friend' told her not to take up the lessons because she would be 'stuck' playing piano and couldn't take up a 'cooler' instrument later. DD (without me knowing until afterwards) turned the lessons down. 'Friend' was then offered them and took them up....(not sure if she would have known she next in line though...)
At secondary - DD won't sort her bag out after school, check her homework etc - carries all her books around with her every day...does her homework on the bus - apparently 'friend' (who knows everything because of her older siblings) doesn't do her bag...or bother doing her homework (which I know isn't true - her mum told me about helping her do an essay!)
They have to make choices now for next year - DD could just do one science -but I think that is a really bad idea and am insisting she does 2 (and then two 1 year less academic things) - 'friend' says you don't need more than one science unless you want to be a doctor or vet or something and she is just going to do four less academic subjects (I refuse to believe her parents will let her - in fact I wouldn't be surprised if she isn't doing 3 sciences and no 'easy' things)...
Final straw - they are going on an activity weekend (not with school) . 'Friend' needs a lift. She was trying to persuade another friend's parent to take her - instead of my DD...but as we lift share anyway we had already agreed to do it between us...so 'friend' got friendly with another girl and is getting a lift with their parent...and that girl's friend. They will be in rooms of 4 - my DD with 3 good friends (who will all lift share together) - so 'friend' will be in a room with the two other girls she lift shared with. They will have a spare space in their room - so are likely to get another girl in with them who is really unpleasant - a bully - none of the group will want to share with her.. in fact some members of the group have left because of her..
Now 'friend' is suddenly best friends with my DD again ...trying to persuade her to come into their room. Worse a few comments have been made that show 'friend' is putting down DD's good friends - even things like suggesting they shouldn't go to her birthday treat at the cinema - they would want to watch something rubbish ...etc etc etc...
I am maybe getting too carried away with this ...but DD is v. scatterbrained and was in trouble (with me) for losing cardigans, coats etc...she came home without her jumper - she said she must have left (with something else) just outside 'friend's house- I sent her straight back out to get it - 10 mins later, if that, it wasn't there and 'friend' hadn't seen it ... now DD has just lost another coat - and the first thing that went though my head was 'oh no' she was with 'friend' last time she saw it...
One day last week she came back with DD after school - normally she goes home at 5ish but was still here at 6pm...showing no signs of moving ..I asked when she had to be home and she said her parents had said 8pm. So I told her she couldn't stay that late (we had a lot of things to sort out for a party the next day) but could stay for dinner but would have to go home straight afterwards ...after dinner she went and sat on the sofa and despite a good few heavy hints didn't leave until 8pm....I felt like she deliberately pushing to see if I would be rude and tell her 'leave - NOW' ...
Please tell me I am being unreasonable and that I am reading too much into it and a 13 year can't be that .....devious?

JulieMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 26-Feb-13 19:31:39

Oblomov

My post was deleted by MN??????
I am BEYOND furious angry because i spent nearly 3/4 of an hour , in between cooking an eveing meal, try to help OP.
I am soooooo mad. I have contacted MN to question why. I wrote NOTHING wrong.
CARE to respond MN?

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We removed your post as it contained a personal attack against the OP and her child.

KitchenandJumble Tue 26-Feb-13 19:38:37

I agree with others that it is really your DD you should be focusing on. She needs to learn to stand up for herself and not be swayed by a charismatic friend.

I would also say that it isn't really up to you to decide for your DD who her friends are. Even referring to this child as her 'friend' in inverted commas suggests a certain lack of acknowledgement that your DD has the right to choose whom to be friends with. Of course, if the other child were behaving in dangerous ways, my response would be quite different. But nothing in your OP suggests anything of the kind.

Oblomov Tue 26-Feb-13 20:34:42

It was not a personal attack. This is MN Moderators at their worst, being totally over-zealous. I am disgusted. I went to a lot of time and effort to write 6 paragraphs.
And I said OP needed to grow a pair of b*ll*cks. Thsi means to have courage, not to be spineless, to have faith and confidence and not to be a walkover.
I do not consider this a personal attack. I have written thsi same sentence many many many times, over the years on MN, and i have seen it written 100's of time more, by other posters.
And I wrote this within a approx 100-/150 word answer - 6 pointers I mentioned, encouraginf OP to discuss with her daughter , for example, her options/subjects and once they were decided , to get the Op's daughter to agree not to change her subject choices, irrespective of which subjects the other girl chose.
I gave 5 similar pointers, to OP, trying to get her to addrees the issue with her daugher alone. rather than considering this other girl.
I went to ALOT of time and trouble to write my 'helpful' post. In between cokiing dinner for the ds's. Does that sound like an'personal attack' to you?
And I am disgusted at Mn being ridiculous moderatrors.
I think the moderators are being so petty , that maybe it is time for me to take a MN break, for a bit.
I am truley shocked.

shock

JulieMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 26-Feb-13 20:45:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Oblomov Tue 26-Feb-13 20:51:07

Conveniently Selective Julie.
You have missed out the 5 paragraphs of helpful advice, to Op, to communictae with her daughter, focus on her dd, rather than addressing the other girl.
The 5 pointers I made balanced out that one comment.

And since when did telling someone to grow a pair of boolcosk, becoem a personla attack? Are you seriously telling me that this comment is against Mn rules? when did that become so, then?
Have you deleted the 1000's and i mean 1000's of other times, someone has been told to grow a pair of bollocks?

Oblomov Tue 26-Feb-13 20:52:29

Sorry to overtake your thread OP. I better leave. I did give what I thought was 5 very sensible pointers.

Casserole Tue 26-Feb-13 21:06:38

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

HollaAtMeBaby Tue 26-Feb-13 21:07:16

OP, YANBU about this girl - she sounds nasty, though I'm sure a lot of this is down to her parents as they sound nasty too. But I do think you need to toughen up a bit. At the moment it sounds like both you and your DP are being pushed around by a pair of 12 year olds. E.g. letting friend stay for dinner then letting her stay on afterwards instead of calling parents to fetch her (never mind that they don't have a car, that's not your problem), your DP being too embarrassed to send the girl away or remind your DD of her grounding... you do need to get a bit tougher both with your DD and with her friend. I hope that doesn't sound harsh <looks nervously in MNHQ's direction> but if you stand up for yourself and set firmer boundaries for your DD instead of letting this go to avoid confrontation, you will be showing her that it is OK for her in turn to do this with other people... like this friend of hers!

Oblomov Tue 26-Feb-13 21:14:38

JulieMN, now that you have decided to write the said offensive bit. And it is thus back on the thread. There seems little reason, to not include the other 90% of extremly suoportive suggestions.
You choose to write exactly what I wote, ehcih you deemed offensive. It was your decision to re-introduce it back onto the thread.
So please post the nice bits of my post. Its the least you could do.

OliviaKnowsBestMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 26-Feb-13 21:26:32

Ahem
PEace and love MNers

OliviaKnowsBestMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 26-Feb-13 21:28:08

JulieMumsnet

Oblomov

It was not a personal attack. This is MN Moderators at their worst, being totally over-zealous. I am disgusted. I went to a lot of time and effort to write 6 paragraphs.
And I said OP needed to grow a pair of b*ll*cks. Thsi means to have courage, not to be spineless, to have faith and confidence and not to be a walkover.
I do not consider this a personal attack. I have written thsi same sentence many many many times, over the years on MN, and i have seen it written 100's of time more, by other posters.
And I wrote this within a approx 100-/150 word answer - 6 pointers I mentioned, encouraginf OP to discuss with her daughter , for example, her options/subjects and once they were decided , to get the Op's daughter to agree not to change her subject choices, irrespective of which subjects the other girl chose.
I gave 5 similar pointers, to OP, trying to get her to addrees the issue with her daugher alone. rather than considering this other girl.
I went to ALOT of time and trouble to write my 'helpful' post. In between cokiing dinner for the ds's. Does that sound like an'personal attack' to you?
And I am disgusted at Mn being ridiculous moderatrors.
I think the moderators are being so petty , that maybe it is time for me to take a MN break, for a bit.
I am truley shocked.

shock

We truly appreciate that you put thought into your post, and that you didn't mean to offend, but we felt that saying....... one part of your post was beyond the pale attack on the OP and her family, which is why your post was deleted.

Hope this clears things up
Thanks
MNHQ

Doha Tue 26-Feb-13 21:39:46

MNHQ
I have to agree with Oblomov. I thought she had written a long thoughtful response which l certainly did not take as a personal attack on the OP or her DD.
This is the moderators playing at being BIG BROTHER probably because they had nothing better to do.

Now this will probably be deleted because l have challenged MNHQ.

Absolutely pathetic

OliviaKnowsBestMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 26-Feb-13 21:44:25

Doha

MNHQ
I have to agree with Oblomov. I thought she had written a long thoughtful response which l certainly did not take as a personal attack on the OP or her DD.
This is the moderators playing at being BIG BROTHER probably because they had nothing better to do.

Now this will probably be deleted because l have challenged MNHQ.

Absolutely pathetic

Sorry you feel that way.
It is very rare actually that we delete any challenges on MNHQ more's the pity

ThisIsMummyPig Tue 26-Feb-13 21:56:52

So then Mumsnet - edit out the bit you don't like, and put the rest on. That way we can all move on.

Casserole Tue 26-Feb-13 21:57:03

<snort>
If MNHQ routinely deleted challenges aimed at them, then the entire site would fit on the back of my left tit. They put up with FAAAAAAAAAR more than I ever would <Stalinist tendencies>

WorraLiberty Tue 26-Feb-13 21:59:08

Blimey, MN is the only forum I've ever been on where people can and do openly challenge the moderators.

I don't think I've ever seen a challenge deleted unless of course it breaks the same rules that govern every post.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 26-Feb-13 22:16:22

Right. What's going on here, then? Some issues over post deletions, I see.

Can I be of any help?

I'll reply to some Qs here in the meantime...

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 26-Feb-13 22:19:00

WorraLiberty

Blimey, MN is the only forum I've ever been on where people can and do openly challenge the moderators.

I don't think I've ever seen a challenge deleted unless of course it breaks the same rules that govern every post.

Indeed.

But we are always happy to explain the reasons behind any decisions we make. And acknowledge any cock-ups (we are human, after all).

We tend to do most of this explaining/cock-up-apologising by mail but we don't mind doing it on the thread, either.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 26-Feb-13 22:21:53

ThisIsMummyPig

So then Mumsnet - edit out the bit you don't like, and put the rest on. That way we can all move on.

No, we're afraid we don't edit posts.

We don't have the resources and, anyway, some folks might be tempted to use it to rewrite history a little bit.

It's unfortunate that small part of Oblomov's post contained a personal attack. But, to be honest, them's the rules: if you break the Talk Guidelines, your post is deleted.

Oblomov, you are most welcome to post up the rest of your post again. We're sure the discussion would be the richer for it.

If you don't have a copy of it, we'd be v happy to ping it over to you.

WorraLiberty Tue 26-Feb-13 22:22:04

shock at all the cock raising activities

<< Deletes browsing history pronto >>

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 26-Feb-13 22:27:01

Oblomov

JulieMN, now that you have decided to write the said offensive bit. And it is thus back on the thread. There seems little reason, to not include the other 90% of extremly suoportive suggestions.
You choose to write exactly what I wote, ehcih you deemed offensive. It was your decision to re-introduce it back onto the thread.
So please post the nice bits of my post. Its the least you could do.

As we said, Oblomov, you're welcome to repost the nice bits yourself - they should come under your name, after all.

And we quite often quote back the rule-breaking part of a post to the person whose post was reported, if they query its deletion on the thread.

It's quite hard to explain why a certain phrase/sentence broke the rules, if you can't quote it.

BlueSkySunnyDay Tue 26-Feb-13 23:01:40

I do sympathise my 12 year old son has 1 friend in particular I do not like, he is controlling, manipulative and sometimes just downright stupid (at the weekend son nearly got hit by a car as he wouldnt let him back on the pavement when out)

I think the more we like it clear we dont like a friend, the more at this age they will dig in and persevere with a friendship. DS is WELL aware I do not like this boy but I feel the best way to deal with it is to encourage other friendships so all his eggs arent in the one basket he frequently says "x really annoyed me because he ......" I just raise my eyebrows and say "so why are you friends with him?"

DS recently told me this boy annoys the hell out of him but keeps insisting they are "best friends" and discouraging/inserting himself into his other friendships ( his father is an abusive controlling person) I'm pretty sure that long term if I carry on building up my son's confidence he will move on. I think this is possibly the way forward for you if you build up her confidence and say "you deserve to be treated better than this, nice friends wouldn't do that" rather than "x shouldnt be treating you like this" hopefully she will think about it and not cling to the friendship out of sheer bloody mindedness (which is what I would have done at that age!)

With regard to the 8pm thing, do her parents work long hours/have a busy social calendar - I wonder if she was instructed to stay at your house as they were not there for her. I am having a lot of that at the moment - DS has friends whose parents know I am generally at home and they are frequently dropped off at ours with a cheery "I will pick him up at x" time as they drive off.

Good luck anyway!!

unlucky83 Wed 27-Feb-13 10:35:06

Gosh - didn't have time to get back to my post until now and find all that...I personally don't think I would have taken offence by anything that Oblovmov wrote...

Thanks for all the advice - at least most people understand how frustrating this is ....and I'm not over reacting hmm

I do need to make a couple of things clear...I used 'friend' not because I think she is two faced - but more as a way of distinguishing who I was writing about ...I could have used 'this child' instead...
What annoys me most is the way this child tries to influence mine ...and sometimes I can see what she would gain - the room share etc - other times (the choices) she doesn't stand to gain but just harm DD...
As to grow a pair - I don't openly critise 'friend' - DD probably doesn't realise how much I dislike (and distrust) her 'friend' (she isn't encouraging her to steal/take drugs etc which is where I would have to get involved) I know by saying what I think I could easily make 'friend' more attractive to DD and have the opposite effect ...Just some times I would really really really like to...is that unreasonable????
And I really don't like how she belittles DD's other friends... but again that's tricky because if I 'defend' the other children too much it might make DD think it isn't cool to like them ... grrrr
I do have vague conversations with DD - things along the lines of 'if someone is nasty about someone else behind their back - I wouldn't trust them to not be the same behind my back' kind of things... and 'I would be amazed if 'friend' really made those choices'
The staying thing ...there was some confusion. DP didn't know DD was in trouble - (she was late in the morning and DP was at work) - and I hadn't actually grounded her - just said we would talk about the consequences that evening.....I wasn't home (other DC has an activity) and wasn't expecting DP to be home (had an appointment) ... so DD should have come to the activity... but saw that DP was home. DP phoned me to let me know and that her 'friend' was with her....and by that stage DP had said she could stay ...when she wouldn't take the hint etc - all I could have done was to tell her to LEAVE NOW - which might have backfired with DD....angry but DD has been reminded to phone before she brings anyone home now...

BlueSkySunnyDay Wed 27-Feb-13 19:14:56

With regard to "growing a pair" maybe your daughter is just a nice, forgiving person, perhaps for her long term wellbeing it would be a good thing for her to toughen up a bit - my youngest is like this too and, whilst I do worry that come secondary school he is going to suffer some heartache, i'd hate him to lose that part of his nature completely.

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