Yesterday was Holocaust Memorial Day. I'm afraid we're heading that way again.

(449 Posts)
garlicblocks Mon 28-Jan-13 11:21:31

"It is estimated that close to 250,000 disabled people were murdered under the Nazi regime. Persecution of people with disabilities began in 1933, but mass murder commenced in 1939.

"The organised killing of disabled children began in August 1939 ... All children under the age of three who were suffering from conditions such as Down’s syndrome, hydrocephaly, cerebral palsy or ‘suspected idiocy’, were targeted. A panel of medical experts were required to give their approval for the ‘euthanasia’ of each child. In the first few months of the program this was usually achieved either by lethal injection or by starving the child to death. Many parents were unaware of the fate of their children, instead being told that they were being sent for improved care.

"The first experimental gassings took place at the killing centre in Brandenberg and thousands of disabled patients were killed in gas chambers disguised as shower rooms. Now that a fast and effective method of mass-murder had been developed it could of course be used to exterminate gays, Gypsies, political opponents and of course over six million Jews.

"Worryingly, in 2012 in Great Britain, Geoffrey Clark, a local government candidate for the UK Independence Party in a by-election in Gravesham, Kent posted this on his website:

"Consider compulsory abortion when the foetus is detected as having Downs, Spina Bifida or similar syndrome which, if it is born, will render the child a burden on the state as well as on the family."

"Although UKIP suspended Clark’s party membership when this hit the news, it was too late to cancel his candidacy. He came second to the conservatives with almost 27% of the vote."

What can we do about escalating persecution of the disabled and otherwise 'unproductive' people in the UK? Are we heading back towards forced sterilisation and murder?

garlicblocks Mon 28-Jan-13 11:22:03
MsVestibule Mon 28-Jan-13 11:28:27

Persecution by who? This is one person's opinion. As a general rule, I think people are far more accepting of people with physical disabilities now. A couple of generations ago, it was quite common to find families putting their children in care who had birth abnormalities.

Perhaps I'm just an eternal optimist, though.

manicbmc Mon 28-Jan-13 11:28:29

It terrifies me that there are people out there that think this is a sound way to treat another person, let alone a disabled one.

It was said on here recently that benefit claimants should be forced to "live in hostels with 12 to a room." Ghettoes then?

It is very scary just how much people are believing the governments propaganda!

nefertarii Mon 28-Jan-13 11:32:43

because a few dickheads feels this way it means we are heading for another holocaust?

No were are not. There have always been dickheads, there always will be. To equate that to the holocaust is down playing the holocaust itself.

TheBigJessie Mon 28-Jan-13 11:35:14

We are in a recession. Historically people tend to drift to the far right or the far left in times of economic strife.

And we're definitely seeing the rise of the far right. Don't know how far it's going to go. I feel certain it's not going to be another Holocaust, but people always tell me I'm an optimist.

purrpurr Mon 28-Jan-13 11:37:59

It's not really just a few dickheads though, is it? Those on benefits are on the sharp end of a full throttle hatred campaign. A lot of those on benefits are either disabled or acutely unwell. The war on 'benefit scum' is seemingly being waged by government, the tabloids and a lot of Conservatives that I know personally. I've never heard such venom being directed at a particular group so frequently, without anyone raising an eyebrow. This is assisting the government in making cuts to funds and services designed in a lot of cases to assist the most vulnerable in society. This is more than a shower of dickheads, it's a monsoon.

This time the dickheads are running the country though. Bit different.

Pigsmummy Mon 28-Jan-13 11:40:32

Yes we are heading towards another Halocaust Memorial day, 364 days to go!

We are not heading towards another Halocaust based on one Eejits comments on a website. All mothers who have a child with a disability are currently offered terminations, some do, some don't, it wont become compulsory.

garlicblocks Mon 28-Jan-13 11:42:35

MrsVestibule: Disability hate crime has been rising fast. It rose by a quarter last year alone.

The government's disability tests have been telling sick people they must work for well over a year.

The combination of cuts in benefits and services means that people with severe disabilities will lose an average of £8,832 per person per year – 19 times more than the burden placed on most other citizens.

The DWP is now saying people are not disabled if they could use a wheelchair or guide dog, even when they do not have access to a wheelchair or guide dog, Private Eye reports.

This looks like a continued effort to label sick people as shirkers and burdens on society. These are, in fact, the reasons claimed by those who abuse the disabled. As they were similarly claimed in Nazi Germany.

manicbmc Mon 28-Jan-13 11:43:09

1933 Weimar republic, and all that, started with a handful of people with hateful ideas who then got into positions of power and then implemented their ideas resulting in millions of murders.

I'm not saying that will happen but why give them the opportunity? We're supposed to learn from history but sadly most people don't.

nefertarii Mon 28-Jan-13 11:45:20

I disagree purrpurr.

Yes some people are angry at those on benefits. But actually I was subject to abuse from neighbours on benefits because I worked.

personally i don't raise an eyebrow. I would say something if people i knew spoke to those on benefits as you describe.

Even if you are correct it still can not be equated to the holocaust.

manicbmc Mon 28-Jan-13 11:47:23

It can be equated to how the policies that resulted in the Holocaust began though. So many similarities.

purrpurr Mon 28-Jan-13 11:47:42

Of course it cannot be equated with the holocaust. Now. I think garlicblocks makes some extremely valid points about why we need to talk about this and be aware of where we're heading.

nefertarii Mon 28-Jan-13 11:48:26

Actually op I disagree hate crime against disabled people is going up.

its all about stats and how you look at them. Changes in the law mean that crime can be reported as 'disablist'. So no one actually knows if the incidents have gone up. Only that more are being reported and more are being classified as being committed due to a persons disability.

KatyTheCleaningLady Mon 28-Jan-13 11:50:24

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

manicbmc Mon 28-Jan-13 11:51:01

Hate crime against disabled people is going up. I had never known this to happen in the same way it is happening now.

Yes some people are angry at those on benefits.

But why though? Everyone is a few cases of bad luck away from claiming themselves.

Its a hate campaign. People are horrified at the things which took place in Nazi germany. It needs highlighted that similar tactics are being used in this government.

Sunnywithshowers Mon 28-Jan-13 11:51:47

garlicblocks there are hideous similarities, particularly with regard to the treatment of people with disabilities.

www.regent.edu/acad/schedu/uselesseaters/

manicbmc Mon 28-Jan-13 11:52:18

I'm sorry, Katy, but are you saying you agree with euthanising the old?

TheBigJessie Mon 28-Jan-13 11:54:49

I think Katy is saying the opposite.

KatyTheCleaningLady Mon 28-Jan-13 11:56:31

No, Manicbmc, but that's only because I'm superstitious and believe in embarrassing outmoded patriarchal religious humbug.

Without the belief that there is an Objective Good from which all Good derives and to which all Good is ultimately united, and that there is much more to life than avoiding discomfort here on Earth, I would have very little defense against Baroness Warnock and Peter Singer. Their logic is perfectly sound.

garlicblocks Mon 28-Jan-13 11:57:19

Here's a page from a mental health support organisation. It shows Nazi advertisements about the shocking cost of disability to society, followed by quotes from our own press over the past two years ... about the shocking cost of disability to society.
mindinflux.wordpress.com/2010/10/26/disability-and-propaganda/

The author concludes:

"I am emphatically not saying that the government, media, or any person within them are akin to Nazis. Rather that propaganda is being used, with various levels of subtlety, and has been used for some time (by the previous Labour government too), to link the idea of sick or disabled people with being a financial burden on society, with being scroungers, with being workshy.

"The government and the media are being selective in how they disseminate information. This changes the attitude of the general public to the disabled, even if the comments are not specifically aimed at those who are genuinely unable to work. Even when an article is talking about people committing benefit fraud, it is again linking the idea of sickness with being workshy.

"Misleading headlines such as the Daily Mail one today makes the general public think that a very large percentage of people are pretending to be sick in order to claim benefits and live an easy life. Resentment towards the disabled people in our society is created.

"This then allows the cutting of disability benefits with little public outcry. (Compare outcry over cuts in child benefit to top 15% of earners, with limiting sickness benefits to 12 months, 20% cut in DLA, or removal of DLA to those in care homes.)

"But it is likely to have other even less desirable effects, with the attitude of many members of the public to vulnerable sick and disabled people having been fundamentally altered. Disabled people are already more likely to be victims of violence or harrassment than non disabled. 'Forty-seven per cent of disabled people have either experienced physical abuse or had witnessed physical abuse of a disabled companion'."

manicbmc Mon 28-Jan-13 12:00:04

That's good then, Katy. I don't believe in god and don't particularly like religion but I do have my own moral compass.

You don't have to believe to know that what they are saying is morally repugnant.

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