To think this is a cruel policy, and not an actual 'tax'?

(313 Posts)
katykuns Fri 25-Jan-13 23:11:08

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jan/25/spare-bedroom-tax-contradiction-impossibility?CMP=NECNETTXT766

I just think its unrealistic, and completely ignores reality that it is not just easy to drop everything and move. It is also very unfair to the disabled.

Why can they not target the damn landlords charging extortionate rents?

It is not directly affecting me, but I do claim housing benefit and I work, and life is hard. I just feel like it makes it impossible to live with a 14-25% cut of your benefit.

Its not a tax, its a benefit cut. Say it as it is hmm... just another attempt to make people struggling to get by struggle even more!

fortyplus Sat 02-Feb-13 09:52:06

Sockreturningpixie - exactly - there will be increasing numbers of people falling into arrears and facing eviction. No social landlord wants to see that scenario. Add to that the proposals that benefits get paid direct to claimants and the most vulnerable people who are least able to manage their own finances are the ones who will suffer first.

Darkesteyes Sat 02-Feb-13 01:56:27

wink

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 02-Feb-13 01:51:53

A little birdy told me that there were a disproportionate amount of housing officers heading towards London a few weeks ago,

Quite funny but legend has it that a few of them met up,what a coincidence wink

Darkesteyes Fri 01-Feb-13 23:27:37

Lets hope they are voted out in 2 yrs thenangry.
I for one voted labour last election & i'm voting for them again.
I know they did wrong by getting into debt, but atleast they are a party that are dedicated to people not just numbers.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 01-Feb-13 06:56:07

Don't fret about rent arrears fourtyplus there trying to cut off any HB after 2 years anyway so everybody effected will be homeless.

Homeless people don't tend to run up rent arrears.

Dark, I'm not sure I understand the sexual pleasure comment does she think that any SAHP spend all day having sex? Anyways amuse yourself tell her she's going to have problems with UC and freak her out by posting a link to the dwp UC info.that will teach her about not sticking IDS on her wall.

Darkesteyes Fri 01-Feb-13 01:10:44

The woman who said "why should they be paid for pleasure" she meant sexual pleasure . Mysogyny AND classism. You couldnt make it up!

Darkesteyes Fri 01-Feb-13 01:08:32

Those right wing people frothing on my fb feed sure have a big shock coming. One of the more recent comments is "why should they be paid for pleasure"
Thats what the young mum on there said about SAHMs who happen to be claiming benefits.
She herself is working part time and claiming tax credits. The hypocrisy is mind blowing.
Hmm maybe i will stay on fb for a bit longer at least for a few more months anyhow.
Just to see the complete fucking about turn they are going to do. If any of them are expecting any sympathy from me they wont be getting any.
Incidentally the young woman who started the discussion is an ex work colleaugue.So the comments underneath that appeared on my feed arent from people i know. And i dont really class her as a friend. More of an ex acquaintance.
I am fucking disgusted with the lot of them. There was one bloke on there who even linked to a daily mail article with IDS face on it to "prove his point" so i had IDS smug face on my feed as well. UGH.
Sorry i will stop now. I just needed to rant.

fortyplus Fri 01-Feb-13 01:01:38

What about the fact that many people currently receiving help with Council Tax are going to lose part of that, too?

I work for a social landlord and we're estimating that rent arrears are going to treble over the next few years.

garlicblocks Fri 01-Feb-13 00:51:26

Sheesh. it's way worse than I thought, Sock!

It's going to be chaos.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 01-Feb-13 00:44:48

With the workfare thing whilst its not actually called workfare

Until you earn the equivalent of 35 hours at NMW each week or your family unit does even if you earn that doing two hours a week then you will be classed as under employed and they can put you in a work support group system this can mean being

Forced to attend meetings with DWP staff or any agent acting on there behalf
Going on employability courses / groups ones that tell you not to pierce your forehead and not to tattoo your face ect
Attending agent based work support program's ( made up name for fecking workfare).

And shit loads of other things the DWP thinks is reasonable, one of the things being discussed is forcing under employed parents to put over ones in full time childcare so you can actively job seek for more hours.

They can force you to leave a job you Have done for years where your hours are contracted and you are protected by employment law for a fecking zero hour contract if they have decent reason to believe you may get more hours doing it even if you won't.

And it apply to every one who gets any top up benefits ( yep hb and wtc) if they earn less than NMW x 35 each week.

garlicblocks Thu 31-Jan-13 22:52:12

Oh, I wondered what had happened to Business Link!

Yes, and did you see the rules about costs? They're only allowing you to offset costs in the month you incur them (again, opposite to normal business practice.) So, if you buy a £10k van one month and earn £5k that month, you put down a zero income - not a net loss of £5k. The following month's earnings are income, the other half of the van cost doesn't matter. Thus your earnings will appear much higher than they really are, so you'll lose benefits faster.

It'll be like Christmas for leasing companies, I guess, but you can't lease consumables like stationery and raw materials.

Also the jobcentre staff will be going through your books, making recommendations which you will have to follow. I'm sure that'll be jolly constructive.

aufaniae Thu 31-Jan-13 22:33:08

I knew about that bit - I think many part-time workers will indeed be very surprised when they find themselves treated like "dole scum".

It also applies to the self-employed. IIRC if you're not earning the equivalent of minimum wage after the first year of your new business, and are getting tax credits / HB, then you'll be required to prove what you're doing to find work.

That's totally at odds with any advice on new businesses. If you're breaking even after the first year that's meant to be good isn't it? No wonder they've axed the "Business Link" website (really good - for once! - government website giving advice on setting up your own business). It would have been dishing out totally contradictory advice to UC guidance.

garlicblocks Thu 31-Jan-13 22:00:19

The government still doesn't seem to have noticed that there aren't enough jobs for people who are actively looking. If I were dead cynical, I might think this is just to get all the low-paid vacancies filled, then they can herd all the remaining unemployed into some micro-managed workfare pool.

However, I'm trying to sort out my own benefits farrago atm and the anxiety's making me very ill. So I'll look on the positive side and suggest that maybe the govt's going to force employers to hire more people, possibly by flooding them with texts and phone calls grin

garlicblocks Thu 31-Jan-13 21:49:01

I think not workfare, but plans at present do include sanctions if the DWP thinks you're not earning enough - and harassment encouragement to work more hours.

The DWP documents I read last autumn did say that all UC recipients who were not earning a full week's worth of minimum wage would be expected to get their earnings up to that level. If the DWP thinks it's found you a better-paid job (ie, full time on NMW) it would be empowered to make you do it even if the job was temporary. It could demand that you spend 35 hours a week looking for work on its shite new website, which will track your visits and activity. The jobcentre could call you in for meetings at any time, to find out what you're doing about getting your earnings up and you would have to attend, even if you were due in at work.

Some of this will be revised. Universal Credit is still being made up as they go along. You might find these Telegraph articles interesting:
textual harassment
2 million will better off refusing work - interesting, as Cameron says 1 million will be better off working! Numpties.

This is a good article: How UC will destroy part-time work.

expatinscotland Thu 31-Jan-13 21:04:04

From what I understand, yes, if they are deemed not to be working enough/enough hours.

Are you saying that working people are going to be made to do workfare?
I sure hope not, that would be wrong on many levelssad

aufaniae Thu 31-Jan-13 20:20:29

Sockreturningpixie are you saying that working people who claim HB / WTC can be sent on workfare too?

aufaniae Thu 31-Jan-13 20:14:10

"Surely not the intention of the Tories, to create a whole new demographic of Socialist activists?"

The only positive I can glean from all this is that at least the changes are coming in, with enough time for them to start to bite before the general election.

I'm hoping it'll politicise the young and previously indifferent so we can get them out of power.

(Although it does make you wonder, what do they have planned for after the next election, should they get in again?! I really hope we never have the chance to find out.)

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 31-Jan-13 19:41:25

Quite.

There going to be gobsmacked when they learn that they can be sent on workfare at 48 hours notice and if they refuse then sanction of HB WTC for 3 months first time and up to 3 years second time,even if they are due in paid work that day.

Perhaps you should tell them.all in the sprit of fore warning of course

Darkesteyes Thu 31-Jan-13 15:44:57

You would be surprised at the volume of people who are impacted by UC who have no clue what going to happen to them in October this year,working people who have always worked who think they a safe.

Sock some of them were making nasty comments last night and it was coming through my fb feed. And then in the next breath (after the slut shaming) one of them mentioned the fact that she is on working tax credit. She obviously spends her time reading Closer/Daily Mail/Woman delete as appropriate and watching Philip "sssh dont tell" Schofield and Holly Handmaiden on TM. Therefore im guessing she and others like her have no idea whats coming.
And when it hits you can bet they will expect support from the very people they are now vilifying!

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 31-Jan-13 14:30:16

Then you will be able to claim the LHA for a two bed and as its cheaper than the LHA you will be fine. as long as the house is not allocated in any way by the LA, if your still worried you can ask for a pre tenancy determination.

You would be surprised at the volume of people who are impacted by UC who have no clue what going to happen to them in October this year,working people who have always worked who think they a safe.

IfNotNowThenWhen Thu 31-Jan-13 13:09:55

Only being able to get HB for 2 years if you are on UC???
WTF??
The majority of HB claimants are working. What are we gonna do? The rents are not going to go down are they?(Although reducing rent was, allegedly, the reason for cutting HB. Hasn't worked, has it?)

The council tax cuts are another reason we have to move house.
It is amazing how few people who are not being affected are actually aware of all these cuts, and how severe they are.

I am personally poorer by about £50 a month since 2010. After the council tax cuts kick in It will be more like £80.
My wages have not risen, and food and heat and bus fares have gone up massively, so in real terms I reckon I am more than £100 a month worse off.
I will have to skimp on either heat, or food. Nothing else can go-I pay £15 a month for the internet and that is the only "non-essential" (although actually it is).

If I was not a lone parent I would happily try and get a bar job a few nights a week, or an after school cleaning job, to supplement my income, but I don't have the childcare.
Actually, though, where I live ANY part time job is like gold dust.

If I was unemployed I would have to find an extra £30 a month after the council tax cut. I don't know how that would be possible, since I already pay a substantial chunk of my child tax credit to cover the rent that the HB doesn't.
I really, really need to move before June, because if any of my circs change after June I will be moved over to UC, and I am shitting myself.

The thing is I am an intelligent, hard working, resourceful person. and yet this attack (and it does feel like an attack) is breaking me. I am on fucking anti depressants due to the stress and worry, and the uncertainty, not to mention the feeling of utter powerlessness.
I am so far from being a "poor me" person, and have always risen above adversity, but every day I get less and less optimistic.

I saw the This Morning propaganda too, and had to switch it off in rage.
I am just so fucking angry. This government has turned me from a moderate lefty, to a rampant militant Socialist.
Surely not the intention of the Tories, to create a whole new demographic of Socialist activists?

(In answer to your earlier question sockreturning, the 3 bed would be cheaper than the lha for a two bed.)

Darkesteyes Wed 30-Jan-13 23:07:03

Newsnight NOW council tax benefit cuts.

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 30-Jan-13 22:35:03

You wait till you stumble apon the universal credit/ reform attempts they tried to get through about if you lost your job whilst on HB they would automaticity reduce you HB by 10% to punish you for being feckless.

Or the only being able to get HB for 2 years of you were in receipt of UC

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