To not want a minute by minute account of Kate's pregnancy and little sympathy for her.

(512 Posts)
babbas Mon 03-Dec-12 21:15:03

She's rich, she has all the support in the world and will have no cooking, cleaning, vocational work or responsibilities. I really really really do not want to have daily updates on her condition or her pregnancy for the next nine months! It's so typical of everything she stands for that they have already announced she will have to be on rest for the foreseeable future. As opposed to doing what exactly??!

My best friend had HG and lost a stone in 8 days. She went to hospital and was told to pull her herself together as most women had morning sickness. No time off work, no help whatsoever.

havingastress Fri 07-Dec-12 17:22:32

I do feel sorry for her - having suffered for 14 horrific weeks, I know how debilitating it can be. However, I also got told to man it up, and had to go to work the whole time.

I'm moreover surprised though that news of her pregnancy has even been announced to the world - she's only 7 weeks..god forbid, I hope she has a successful pregnancy. Very very early to be announcing imo.

However, not her fault, and also not her fault that the papers are dedicating 14+ pages to her pregnancy as though she's the only woman in the world to ever have a baby. I'm SO bored of her pregnancy already!

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 17:16:29

LtEve re-read my post. It read Yes a year as a new mother with a husband away is different ..... Which clearly means I read what you wrote, and correctly.

It's not especially important and I'm not going to argue with your 'insight' (which clearly did give you insight into coping on your own with a child for a while and all the moving-abroad-on-your-own-fandango). But the aspect of the army which I found enormously oppressive and deeply anachronistic was its treatment of dependant wives. Which you are not. Perhaps it was worse in our regiment, since on paper it's right up at the top end of 'posh'. And I can quite see how it may well be the worse for that.

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 15:28:30

Did you miss 'deployed husband' part of my post? Actually I was preganant and working (without DH) then admitted to hospital for 3 months (without DH - and with only the families Officer and his wife as visitors) then had my DD (early, and thankfully with DH), then had a DD in Kindertensive (with DH), then bought her home, then moved house and country (without DH), employed a Nanny (without DH), went back to work (without DH), before finally getting DH home and having him become the SAHD and a dependant of mine! <<and breathe>>

Like I said, a great insight.

There are Guards and Cavalry Regiments that don't consider themselves 'posh' and there are those that do. The distinction comes from the traditional, historic stories of Cavalry Officers having to have a second personal income if they wished to join up (and their own horse!). That hasn't been a concern for years, but that history remains. I know seriously loaded Cavalry Officers, and those without a bean to their name.

My only contact with the Guards was a previous RSM from a poverty stricken area of Scotland who was a fabulous bloke and someone I looked up to. But I'm still aware that they are considered 'posh'. It's all to do with the Order of Precedence of the Regiments and Corps of the British Army. My own Corps is that far down the list it falls off the bottom of the page!

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 14:55:07

Cross posted with both. So the distinctions about who's posh and who isn't still exist smile Good old enlightened modern day army.

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 14:48:01

Everyone thinks 'posh'= cavalry. But some of the non cavalry guards regiments might quarrel with that, if for some reason they were put out by not being regarded as posh.

Clearly commuting to Bishopsgate etc. is trickier from Germany than it is from Windsor or London. As I said, even now there are variables.

Yes a year as a new mother with a husband away is different from a short interruption to your career with the husband home most nights. Still not quite in the same boat as the wives I'm thinking of though.

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 14:47:40

Oh yes, how could I forget the Guards? shock grin

hf128219 Fri 07-Dec-12 14:33:09

Cavalry, Guards, some Infantry, bla bla bla.

BartletForTeamGB Fri 07-Dec-12 14:27:53

heavy, "Does it say that she has HG? Acute morning sickness could man anything"

From the first statement announcing the DoC's pregnancy:

The Duchess was admitted this afternoon to King Edward VII Hospital in Central London with Hyperemesis Gravidarum. As the pregnancy is in its very early stages, Her Royal Highness is expected to stay in hospital for several days and will require a period of rest thereafter.

Further information:

Hyperemesis Gravidarum is very acute morning sickness, which requires supplementary hydration and nutrients.

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 14:27:23

No, because she got back in contact with her childhood sweetheart.

A year as a dependant, with a brand new family and a deployed husband, rather than a soldier gave me great insight actually.

What do you call 'posh' regiments. I think Cavalry when I hear that, and only One of the cavalry regiments is in or near London. One is in North Germany.

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 14:22:54

hf then your lot are clearly more cool. Do most of the wives have careers in that regiment these days or are you the exception to the rule? And of those who do have a career, do most own their own homes and stay put? I suppose being in one of the posh regiments which are in or near London facilitates a continuing career too. So many variables. I think life these days is anyway far more fixed, with less moves, or is that wrong? And haven't overseas postings been slashed ? (not just Germany but other more exotic postings too - though that was the fun bit).

LtEve did the first wife leave your DH because she disliked being an army wife? Maternity leave wouldn't give any real insight, no.

Heavywheezing Fri 07-Dec-12 14:09:46

I think that you are right.

Does it say that she has HG? Acute morning sickness could man anything

hf128219 Fri 07-Dec-12 14:03:39

Yellow DH is in what you would consider a 'posh regiment'

BartletForTeamGB Fri 07-Dec-12 13:40:48

"Quite interesting that the fact that she's already at home after only a couple of days is being ignored. The obgyns won't be taking any chances either. What a joke. Lets hope this doesn't diminish the difficulties faced by those with serious hg."

Don't think it is strange at all that she has been discharged after a few days. I have had HG in two of my three pregnancies and the thinking now is generally to come in as a day case for fluids and to do that repeatedly if needed. I felt so, so, so much better within a few hours of IV fluids that I would have been happy to go home.

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 13:13:06

As I said before Yellowtip, I have also been a soldier's wife - my husband was serving when we met and married. So no, I certainly don't see myself as superior, in fact I see myself as someone in the best position to see both sides. Whilst on Maternity Leave I was a 'mere' wife as you put it, and was able to see the difficulties that they have to overcome. I am glad to report that improvements have been made that benefit everyone. My husband is currently a SAHD (by choice), so a Service Spouse and can see quite clearly how much better things are than when he was married to his first wife (20 years ago).

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 13:05:34

LtEve as a serving soldier yourself you're looking at life from a different perspective. You do give the impression that you perceive yourself to be somehow superior to 'mere' wives. The chances are you probably aren't - just different.

hf that's good to hear. Hopefully that's much more common these days. A huge amount still must depend on a spouse's type of career and whether one can buy one's own home and is prepared to live apart. I'm aware of a few wives who were doctors, nurses and teachers but the range of options wasn't huge. Germany going makes a difference too of course. I'm afraid in my then cloistered world the set of wives I was with were eye wateringly obsequious, along with the DHs. Sorry, sad but true. Perhaps they were atypical: the particular branch and regiment might well have lent itself to that smile Apologies if your lot are all rather more cool.

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 12:52:49

Wow. How about easing life for school tranfer?

Arms Plot Moves now take place in August and Regiments are given up to a years notice of them.

Soldier moves take place in August wherever possible, but if not possible Early Mover Status is given to families to allow them to move before or after their soldier to assist with school applications.

hf128219 Fri 07-Dec-12 12:51:54

Yellowtip. Your comments!

"Overwhelmingly though, when it came to a visit, the officers wives were as eye wateringly obsequious as their DHs. Unreal."

I am a serving Officer's wife, including a stint as the CO's wife. I have a career, live in our own home and have a life!

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 12:49:24

Nope, my Service Spouse - MALE, would be seriously unimpressed to be called a Wife.

You are not, nor have you ever been a serving soldier. You were an Army Spouse 20 years ago. You cannot say that none of those changes had an impact on wives spouses and children - because they did. For example, back in the 90s there was no such thing as a Civil Partner. A same sex partner had no standing with regards to pay, pension, death in service, service accn and so on. They did not exist, therefore no allowance had to be made for them. They could not be employed, could not live within the community, so could not live overseas in most cases, could not be treated medically, could not be included as Next of Kin or Emergency Contact - They wouldn't even be told if their partner had died. Now they can - it's a huge and great change.

As for chauvinistic culture - well when I first joined women were treated differently and pretty badly. Once we received equal status and equal opportunities things improved, and an still improving daily. At my last post I was one of only 3 female soldiers in a Regiment of 420. I was never treated as anything other than a soldier, a friend and a comrade (well until I puked on the Regimental Carpet - which was a black, black day in Germany grin)

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 12:35:09

LtEve I tend not to fall into traps. Wives is a perfectly good shorthand.

Nope, none of those things are really going to have a huge impact on wives and children. Indeed you make it sound as if the housing repair situation has got worse, not better. And houses still haven't been updated? Wow. How about easing life for school tranfer? Anything sensible done there?

It's the chauvinistic culture really that I'm interested in, of which these practical aspects are only a part.

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 12:24:34

Joint Personnel Administration - which means (very basically) that everyone, male and female, all 3 services, are treated the same. Same allowances, same 'perks', same administration.

Modern Housing Solutions. A civilian company charged with the care and repair of military accommodation allowing services spouses to be 'in charge' of their own homes rather than relying on the service person. A bad idea solely because the contract was given to the cheapest bidder (as ever) and they did not realise (or care maybe) what a huge task it was. The jobs are done, but not as speedily as they should be.

Service Families Accommodation. No longer controlled by the MOD and again allows the service spouse to contact them direct. All SFA has been or is currently being improved and updated - something that is long overdue.

You didn't ask for changes directly related to service spouses (not 'wives' - falling into your own trap there). But of the list above, numbers 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 all directly or indirectly relate to families and have improved service family life.

Hobbitation Fri 07-Dec-12 12:23:59

Someone I was following on Twitter thinks she should "get on with it, as other pregnant women do". I pointed out they werebeing ignorant, as hyperemesis gravidarum is NOTHING LIKE normal pregnancy nausea. He replied that he doesn't believe she has that and the royal family are just making it up for the publicity...

You can't win with some people. They are never going to get it.

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 12:06:28

Well you're certainly well and truly into acronymns, as one might expect!

At first glance, and without being able to decipher all of the acronyms, this list looks as though it does bugger all to address families issues and the pervasive chauvinism meted out to wives. But what is JPA, MHS and SFA? Why was the introuction of MHS a bad decision? (I'm guessing this is housing).

LtXmasEve Fri 07-Dec-12 11:18:22

I'm 40 years old, and have been in the Army for 22 years.

I enlisted in 1989, joining my first unit in 1990. Off the top of my head, since I joined, some major changes are:

1. The disbandment of the WRAC and the removal of the "non-combatent" status for females.
2. Removal of automatic discharge for pregnant females.
3. Allowing single parents (of either sex) to remain in service.
4. Allowing openly gay males and females to remain in service.
5. Introduction of Compulsory Drugs Testing.
6. Recognition of Civil Partnerships.
7. Introduction of JPA.
8. Introduction of receipt based expense allowances.
9. Introduction of MHS (bad decision) and handing over of SFA control to a civilian contractor.
10. Closure of (almost all) Military hospitals and the introduction of Military Wings to NHS hospitals

Thats just a start.

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 10:56:44

which of course you might well be.

Yellowtip Fri 07-Dec-12 10:55:23

Obviously you're a little younger than me LtEve so I guess you can't properly compare, unless you've been part of the policy making machine working through these major changes in the MoD, which of you might well be: someone has to drive and see through policy changes, no reason why it shouldn't be you.

I'm interested though: what are these eight major changes? If you tell me how the army has attempted to put right the deficiencies then I can more easily judge, rather than simply being told. I'm probably up to the task. You said you could name at least eight, which were major.

I myself thought things were pretty equal and unchauvinist in the mid-late eighties and early nineties tbh. Then I discovered the army. But in my other world things had seemed to be pretty equal. So I suppose I wonder why the army was so out of touch then and so in touch now. The army must have had to change far, far, far more than society has done in the past twenty years if it's really caught up.

So, hit me, please! smile

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