To wonder if the new PiP is just the beginning of a systematic attack on the most vulnerable in society

[madhairday]

Posting this here because this issue needs to be raised.

I've just seen the possible new Personal Independence Plan criteria and am even more terrified about the future for the disabled and chronically sick than I was before.

The criteria has narrowed dramatically from DLA, and become even more of an automised tick list suitable for the ATOS robots to fill in, condemning thousands to a life sitting indoors staring at four walls. I notice the criteria goes straight from 'unaided' to 'constant help' with no inbetween. So many will be caught in the trap of not being disabled enough, so losing DLA, not being able to get ESA because of apparently being fit for work, then losing Jobseekers due to not being able to get to the Job Centre because they have lost their mobility allowance.

Is anyone else frightened about this? How many people are going to begin to believe life is simply not worth living any more? How is this society being civilised, and looking after its weakest? What is the future for disabled children? I notice there being very little (nothing) about autism, and very little about mental health issues. This criteria seems to me a cynical and hard way to get as many people off this benefit as possible.

The future looks cold to me.

I am very afraid for the future for my disabled daughter. I want her to have as much of a life as possible, but at the moment, the Govt. are attacking the disabled. My daughter used to receive funding to go to Riding for the Disabled, but the Govt has stopped the funding. It is really no good for them to say that it is the fault of the local council, when it is central govt. who have cut the money. We receive DLA and use it for riding and other things to give her a good life and to make up for the things she cant do.
The Govt have not ruled out introducing PIP for children, which is a frightening prospect.

YANBU madhairday

DS1 is agressive qwith his ASD and needs a aplce at a SNU school from September, yet as he gets DLA under the criteria for 24/7 support will not get PIP.

So I will need to sign on if not working.

Except signing on requires me to be available for work: the caring role will not simply vanish.

So I will not get a penny.

Hopefully Dh will be still here, still alive and still earning by then otherwise there is a genuine risk that I could have to hand my boys over (I have 2 with autism and one being assessed) or starve.

But hey, as long as the fraudsters are caught the actually-disabled don;t matter eh? Seems a little arse-about-face to me......

And yes, it targets autism and MH; I suspect becuase autism is so very common as a dx nowadays so targetting it is an easy save. Of course research shows no actual rise in the condition, but what does that matter? Save a few £ from those who can argue least.

Silly thing is that I suspect it's far easier to fool at ATOS worker with a fake injury than to fake diagnosed autism. So teh system actually enables the fraudsters whilst presenting a very real health and even life risk to those with genuine difficulty.

:( TTW, it's things like that funding that was making a difference to quality of life, and taking all that away and cutting DLA for so many is showing what the govt really think about value. Peachy, I hope things are Ok for you too. Think you're right about the ATOS workers being taken in by say a fake bad back than actually looking at someone with autism and finding out everything about them from health professionals etc.

Unfortunately the lack of interest on this type of thread does reflect society at large - case in point with the lack of coverage on the news about the disabled people marching the other day against cuts. I want to challenge people - this could be you, or your DC, at any time. It's shocking. But society seems to have done a good job in persuading people that Daily Fail-esque vitriol is accurate. It's sickening :(

i am terrified :(

It is, indeed, sickening.

MN tried to raise a campaign for carers: no interest.

Another poster, Madame Lindt, tried to help: no interest.

It is amazing how distant people feel from Sn given that we are all but a bus crash away from needing it.

Totally agree OP. I know we need to make cuts etc., but I am mystified as to how something like this can be considered acceptable. Can you imagine if someone suggested making cuts by suddenly making black people ineligible for JSA for example? There would rightly be outrage. Some areas should just not be considered suitable for cutting and this is one of them. Like you I worry about the future society our DC are growing up in and I am at least lucky enough to have children with no special needs or disabilities.

People don't realise how hard it is to get DLA etc. I've got 3 disabilities and am not badly affected enough yet to claim.

I'm trying to find work, one of my disabilities cost me my last job. Just over a year ago, with 1 diagnosed disability I was able to self refer to Remploy who began assisting me to find work... I found a job, developed a 2nd disability and promptly got fired after time off sick and a lot of bullying.

But now I can't self refer to Remploy, even though I'm more disabled than I was last year. I need the Job Centre to refer me, except they have quotas and have told me the more disabled the better. My disability employment advisor has cancelled on me repeatedly, I'm still not referred and I first spoke to him in February. I am having to chase up medical reports etc to prove I'm disabled. No proof was required last time, I just rang them up, told them about my condition and that was that.

I have interviewed for so many jobs and I'm sure the fact my last job was lost due to ill health is holding me back. The job market is tough enough out there already. I can't even claim JSA due to DP's salary as I've not been able to work for long enough to pay enough NI.

I was treated like dirt in employment because of my disabilities. I was treated to a charming impression of someone with a particular disability and how they were a * because they didn't have a brain. This was done by management and another member of my team. In front of the Associate Director who KNEW I was disabled. No-one except me challenged the behaviour, in a group of around 10-11 adults (of which I was also the youngest) I was the only one who didn't laugh.

It seems people hate disabled people, if they don't work they're scroungers, if they do work they're 'not commercially viable' their disabilities are 'really not fair on the rest of the team'. We just can't win.

This all makes me want to weep. Genuinely. My mother works for carers' rights and has even gone to the Houses of Parliament with her projects and opinions. It gets highlighted on daytime telly from time to time but is generally considered 'unsexy' and fades away. Many carers are invisible.

Very very saddening. Cameron's government seems to be very much a 'kick away the crutches...stand up straight' bullying one.

Minty at your work colleagues. You're right, there are thousands of people stuck in between 'not disabled enough for DLA' and yet not able to work due to chronic conditions and workplace bullying, or not being able to get a job in the first place. I'm well aware I'm unemployable as will go off sick very suddenly for weeks, months, and yet some ATOS penpusher will take one look at me and pronounce me fit.

I'm like Peachy, I will be completely reliant on dh, and will be lost without him looking after me. Personal Independence? Yeh right.

I know lots of other people online stuck in similar positions, I know I'm capable of some work, and to be honest I think I'll be ok in most office jobs providing I have the right support and pleasant colleagues. Some people can only work part time, or are severely limited in the work they can do. I could never do shop work again unless sat down for example.

But in my last role people I thought were my friends just turned on me over night, one minute I could do no wrong, sun was practically shining out of every orifice then after on my 5th day off sick when I was signed off for a month they were threatening to sack me. From then on everything I did was wrong. They even harrassed my close friend on a different team, wanting her to dish the dirt on what was 'really' wrong with me. They said I wasn't mixing enough with the team - I was off sick ffs. I could hardly go and be sociable during sick leave, I could barely leave my bed!

They actually implied if I could get to my Drs office I could get to work. My GP's surgery is virtually next door, it's 2 mins walk away. When I was sick it took me about 10 mins to shuffle there. Work was a 10 min walk away plus a 30-40 min train journey... and it would be a full 10 hour day. A bit different to 5 mins with your GP and a few mins walk either way. They also thought I'd mistaken myself to be ill... yeah, course. Everyone risks their new job during probation to pull a 3 month plus sickie. Who wouldn't?

And they thought I was the 'crazy' one.

whatever happened to their promise that they weren't touching DLA?

Bastards.

I note from the article that it seems like if you don't need physical help, you're fucked.

My lads need support - prompting - help, but not food putting into their mouths, iyswim.

It is very clear that they are trying to hit the most vulnerable.

oh, and, we are not so very far away from sticking the disabled back into institutions. I am becoming increasingly convinced this government would love nothing more.

I have problems with physical tasks but try to do as much for myself as I can.

I have SN and a physical disability which affects cognitive functioning, I particularly have problems with short term memory. I need my DP to remind me of so much, pay the bills/rent, buy food, email X, send a letter to the Bank etc etc. I am reasonably well organised, especially for someone with Dyspraxia but sometimes I do do some worrying things on bad days like forget to eat, forget to go to the toilet and then realise I've needed to go for like an hour and just plain forgot.

I leave hobs/ovens on. I forget the stove is hot. I grate my finger nails/skin in to the cheese if I'm not super careful. I injure myself preparing food.

I don't need constant supervision but I would never feel safe to live alone without another adult to make sure I remember the essentials. These things don't happen that often but when they do and I realise it upsets and scares me. I struggle to manage money, my maths is hopeless.

I think people with SN, especially those who need much more help than me are going to really struggle.

TheTimeTravellersWife Surely RDA is a charity? I used to volunteer as an instructor, and I know the lady who drove the minibus was sponsored by the Variety Club plus the horses were all given to us and looked after by local people.... Is it the case that lots of previously charitable things were given funding under the old system and will now be voluntary under the new system?

its awful. I have no direct experience but thought we lived in a better country than one which would 'care' for it's weakest members like this.

YANBU , I work for social services in homecare (as was it is now called something pointless)

I used to be really proud of the job I do but lately I have just felt ashamed and sad . The whole service will end in october and anyone needing help will have to be seen by agency carers . Which is fine if you are loaded and have good agencies in your area . But if you expect the state to pick up the bill then good luck to you . The people that I personally know of who will not qualify and can't afford care is sickening .

The way we treat our most vulnerable is indeed a good judgement on us as a society and we are failing .

This is just awful. What is even worse is that this is the first I have seen of this, so if I wasn't using MN, seeing as no one in my family has a disability, I may never know. And the same can probably said for most of the population.

With the ignorant views that are already around - only last week another mum at the school told me that you only have to say one of your children is a bit disabled and you get another £10k a year - I honestly think that a lot of people really won't care either.

The Daily Mail and the like will put on the spin that it's stopping the scroungers - maybe they should also add that you need to be of white british heritage to apply just to make sure everyone is doubly happy.

I think the only hope with these policies is that they are voted out at the next election. We are a year in already and with any luck these policies may not get very far in the time they have left

I hope so, verybored, but I suspect that the kind of ignorance we are referring to here is so ingrained within society that it won't make a lot of difference.

Looking at it in stark reality, this is going to cause more illness, and in worst cases, death. I'm not saying this to be dramatic, but to be real. People will fall apart. Some will commit suicide. Some will die of hypothermia because they can no longer afford heating. Some will die because they have no help to manage their condition. Some will starve. But it's fine, because all those scoungers will be sorted, and all the taxpayers will be happy again.

Where is this country going?

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/may/08/jobcentre-staff-guidelines-suicide-threats

I know people who have been told they're fit for work by the ATOS medicals and that they can't claim ESA... so they're told to sign on for JSA instead. But when they make the application for JSA they're refused on the grounds that they're not fit for work...

It's heartbreaking, it really is.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-13455068

There'll be more of these stories I expect...

yup :(

RDA is indeed a charity, but horses need feeding, vets bills need paying and without the previous subsidy, I now have to pay £26 per hour for DD to ride. It used to be a nominal contribution of £2 per hour, with the rest made up from funding. I think the funding came from "Aiming High for Disabled Children" but I may be wrong on that.

And I agree, being a carer is not "sexy" and does not get the media's interest. I guess that scrapping poo off bottoms just does not make an interesting read.....
And as you rightly say, we are all just a stroke of fate away from being disabled ourselves. It is like disabled people are other beings, to be denied the rights and dignity of other members of society. Racism is no longer socially acceptable, neither is homophobia, but disablism....you only have to look at the response to the so called jokes about disabled people made by so called comedians.
Right, I will get off my soap box now.

Looking on the DWP website, we have until 6th June to 'send our comments on the initial draft of the assessment criteria for the PiP' here

Please send comments. It may be too little too late but we need to do something.

Why is there not more interest? I feel sick that a thread about the future for so many people is virtually ignored. Come on people. It could be you.

yanbu, very worrying indeed.T