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Original poster

Children's play getting too hands on for my liking...

46 replies

DeidreBarlow · 16/05/2011 16:29

Not sure if this is exactly the right place but figured it would get the most traffic. Apologies if it goes on a bit too, I'll explain...

A few months ago DD (4.8) and DN (7) were playing upstairs at a family party. My mum overheard DN say to DD "Lets play the Willy Game, I'll show you my willy and you can touch it". DD said thats a silly game or something and then mum went in and asked them to come downstairs to play. I mentioned it to SIL so she could have a word with DN and explain that its a silly game and not something he should do. Was a bit awkward but she had a word. I told DD that we don't play games like that and if it happened again to tell em or DH.

They have played together several times since and DN always wants to play with DD on his own, and won't let DS join in but I figure this is more than likely because DS can be a PITA. Anyhow, yesterday we were at FIL, and they were playing upstairs and in the dinning room on their own (we were in the lounge), DN kept asking me to not let DS play with them. DH thought it a bit odd as they weren't playing anything specific just pretending games. Anyway last night DD was saying what a fun time she had had playing and then started giggling about the silly games she was playing with DN. So I asked what they were playing. She said they played Doctors and DN told her to lie down, took off her knickers and wiped and touched her ladybum (apologies thats what we call it). They then played the Willy game again, and he told her to look at his willy but she didn't want to touch it. DH was furious with DN. I told him I'm sure it was just childhood curiosity but he said DN was very devious and when he thought about it was constantly trying to get DD on her own. FWIW I think DH was a tad over dramatic here. DD also said that DN had asked her not tell.

I rang SIL and explained what DD told me they had been playing, and that DD wasn't allowed to tell. She just kind of laughed and said have a word but I got the impression she didn't thinkit was a big deal. I explained that I would not be letting them play on their own together in future.

Am I over-reacting? Is this normal for kids? Or is it a big deal?

OP posts:
DontGoCurly · 16/05/2011 16:31

You are not over-reacting.

I would be furious. Especially that the lads mother seems to be just laughing it off.

strandedbear · 16/05/2011 16:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Itsjustafleshwound · 16/05/2011 16:34

Yes it is a big deal.

You can't change the way SIL thinks about things, but perhaps the way forward is to reiterate to your daughter that it is undesirable behaviour and be more vigilant when she is with your nephew.

lubberlich · 16/05/2011 16:35

I don't think it is anything sinister but it really needs a few words about boundaries.

podsquash · 16/05/2011 16:36

My kids know those areas are private and not for everyone's amusement! Curiosity and looking is one thing, but touching is different and telling her to keep it secret is a whole other level. Not okay.

Original poster
DeidreBarlow · 16/05/2011 16:41

Yes it was the 'don't tell' aspect that unsettled me as DN clearly knew it was inappropriate.

I'm not sure if SIL laughed as she thought it funny or more of a nervous laugh. I did expect her to call me back and say she'd had a word and DN knew what the boundaries were.

I tried to explain to DD that she should never show her bits to anyone, and that we don't touch them even if we are pretending in a game. But she thought she was being told off so I backed off a bit. Although I did tell her they were not allowed to play alone again.

OP posts:
thisisyesterday · 16/05/2011 16:41

i don't think you're over-reacting, he obviously knows it's somehting he shouldn't be doing

but i thin you need to just wait and see what else happens.. your SIL may have just been caught unawares and just not known what to say so she laughed it off.... for all you know she's sitting there worried to death about it now!

You've done the right thing, and you can ensure that your DD knows it's not a gmae she should play and that her private parts are PRIVATE, that it's ok to say no when people suggest things she doesn't want to do.
and of course you can ensure that they don't play alone together again

Bucharest · 16/05/2011 16:44

You are not over-reacting.

I would go cosmic quite frankly.

HubbaHubbaBubba · 16/05/2011 16:45

Poor you.
I think your SIL's reaction is odd, as her DS explicitly went against the rules you'd laid out. Is he a young 7? Could it be a genuine curiosity and he knows he's not allowed to play (may nor know why either), and so that is why he's talling her not to tell?

FWIW I remember playground games which involved chasing and then looking at each other's bums (butt cheeks), knowing it was a bit taboo (and genuinely it was just the arse bit!) and we must have been about 5 yrs old.

I think 7 is old enough to know better (although my eldest is only just 4 so not very qualified to talk here).

clam · 16/05/2011 16:45

I don't think you're over-reacting. But then, to be honest, in the light of the previous incident, I think I would have been checking up on them a bit more regularly. Particularly if DN kept asking for you to take DS away.

AuntieMonica · 16/05/2011 16:48

Tricky one, my 1st reaction on reading the part about your DS and DN was 'it happens, kids are indeed fascinated by their own willies'.

The 2nd incidence raises further questions though, the fact DN excluded your DS and then told DD not to tell is worrying to me. Not for any other reason though than the fact he knows he shouldn't be doing it, but is getting your kids to collude.

I would have a chat with your own DCs about good touch/bad touch and secrets.

You can't change your SILs attitude to this, unfortunately.

valiumredhead · 16/05/2011 16:53

I don't think it's sinister but definite boundaries need to be made.

glendathegoodwitch · 16/05/2011 17:14

i understand childrens curiousity but i am concerned about him saying not to tell??? where did that come from at 7 he should think its innocent curiousity - i would be concerned about who has made him play these games and told him to not to tell!!! and if he's demanding he plays with your dd on his own alarm bells would be ringing with me!!!

a few years ago i was a school governor and the link governor to safeguarding children along with the head teacher and the course we went on was identifying and being aware of abused childrens behaviour - along with a knowledge of sexual vocabulary, playing out sexualised scenarios with instruction were included.

if this was me personally i would seek further advise from professionals to see what they think from this behaviour.

hope this is just a kids game and nothing more sinister x

saffy85 · 16/05/2011 17:15

Don't about sinister, your DN is 7 not 17, although your DH has a point about DN being devious- he knows it's a game that isn't allowed so he's telling your DD to keep it a secret, which isn't on.

I wouldn't leave them alone together for the forseeable future, certainly not if DN's parents wont make it clear to him he shouldn't be playing this game with anyone.

TattyDevine · 16/05/2011 17:16

At 7 its hard to imagine it was too sinister to be honest but that's almost besides the point - if nothing else, you dont want her cringing about it when she's 20 and he's 22 sitting round a table at your son's wedding, or whatever! Of course you want to be setting boundaries, particuarly SIL should be, etc, but sinister or not, whether he turns out to be a sex offender or not (hopefully not!) if nothing else, put a stop to it for the ease of their future friendship if nothing else.

saffy85 · 16/05/2011 17:17

don't know about sinister Blush bloody keyboard!

vagolaJahooli · 16/05/2011 17:21

I have only boys and I would be quite unsettled if they did this, in particular the exclusion & not telling bit. It is normal to be intrigued by this area but to do it to her knowing he shouldn't is a bit disturbing.

I think you need to be careful how you handle things with DD, you don't want her to think she has done something she should be ashamed of or that she is in trouble.

fairydoll · 16/05/2011 17:21

It 's not sinister and is very normal for a 7 yo boy.he is being devious not because he is sinister but because he knows he's not allowed to play it.It wants sorting out with both ypur DN and your DD. DD shouldn't have played it after you had told her not to

TrudyVotion · 16/05/2011 17:24

Hi. As others have said, there's a natural curiosity there which we shouldn't view as Bad-with-a-capital-B, but we all know there is a boundary, even if we can't necessarily describe exactly where it lies.

In your situation, as everyone has said, it's as much the 'don't tell' as what actually went on that would bother me. DN is going too far though, it was premeditated and entirely directed by him and that's a bit worrying. What a difficult conversation to have with your SIL, and what an unhelpful reaction. My own experiences would tell me that DD mustn't be allowed to think that it's reasonable for people to play with her like that but try not to scare her or turn it into a bit deal for her, just ensure it can't happen again.

Tbh I think SIL is in a worse situation if her son is behaving like this. If DH thinks DN is devious then together with this it suggests she has some difficult years ahead. I'm probably going too far, but is there anything else that concerns you in that branch of the family that could be informing DN's behaviour?

Beans33 · 16/05/2011 17:30

Hi Deidre - I have to say that I don't think you're overreacting at all. My oldest DD is only 2, but I have nephews of 7 and 9 and they definitely know that that's inappropriate behaviour. I would be furious in your position - I hope your SIL will do something about it and I must admit, I'd go with your instinct and you clearly think there's something dodgy about it. The fact that he knows enough to tell your DD not to say anything means he absolutely knows he shouldn't be doing it. It's not on at all. Well done for telling SIL that you're uncomfortable with it. And I must admit, if it was me, I wouldn't let them play alone together again. I'd keep an eye on him. I'm sure he's only curious about girls and it's nothing sinister, but it is private and inappropriate and he definitely knows it and should be well told to reinforce it!

manicinsomniac · 16/05/2011 17:32

I don't think your nephew would have meant anything bad or inappropriate by the game. Certainly it was inappropriate and he needs to understand that but I wouldn't consider it concerning as long as it is stopped now. 7 is still very little and he is probably just becoming aware of how adults of different genders behave sexually towards each other and is curious.

I remember playing 'games' with my cousins where we would pull down out swimming costumes and show each other (don't remember any touching but couldn't say for sure). I'm guessing I was about 5 which would make the age range of the children involved 3 - 7. I don't think that's unusual.

You're definitely right to get a stop to it though.

youretheoneformefatty · 16/05/2011 17:35

I'm not sure whether this is normal behaviour at this age or not, but the bit I find worrying is that he told her not to tell. IMO that means even he thinks it's not appropriate and should not, therefore, be doing it. I'd have another word with his mum if I were you.

WobblyWidgetOnTheScooper · 16/05/2011 17:36

I'd say at 7 that is not normal. By that age they should know! And the fact that he obviously knows it's wrong and was trying to be alone makes me think Hmm

Shock at parents lack of reaction too!

Original poster
DeidreBarlow · 16/05/2011 17:38

Thank you for your thoughts. I agree that I find it 'sinister' in the sense he knew he shouldn't be doing it yet did it anyway. I don't want DD to feel she has been bad but at the same time she had been told before not to play this game.

It goes without saying that they will be supervised for the foresaeable.

OP posts:
rogersmellyonthetelly · 16/05/2011 17:43

dont think its anything sinister, I used to play this game with my friends at about the age of 7, (me, a girl and 2 boys I used to play with as I was a tomboy) we all always went where we knew parents would not catch us red handed, and would play "rudies" as we called it. I can remember being fascinated by the boys willies and asked to touch, and was allowed. I was in no way a sex pest, and am not now, just a curious 7yo exploring differences between our bodies. Boys did ask to touch mine, but I always said no.
I can imagine if a 5yo boy or girl had been there with us, they would have been given strict instructions not to tell under any circumstances, as we all said this to each other all the time, as we all knew we would get a good bollocking if parents found out!
your SIL probably just laughed because she has caught him playing this game before with other friends and knows its just kids being kids, or she may even have been embarrassed herself. At the end of the day, most 7yo have not much idea of privacy, my DS is almost 7 and I caught him and his best friend standing butt naked in the garden 2 weeks ago, comparing theirs. DS was mightily impressed as his friend's was standing up and his wasnt, which he pointed out to me, DD, and anyone else within earshot.
A question I would ask everyone though (and this is genuine) if it was a 7yo girl asking to touch a 5yo boys bits, would it have been less of a big deal, or would it not make a difference to your opinion?

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