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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why are we accepting this?

45 replies

howtorebuild · 30/09/2015 04:35

When it comes to healthcare, we are getting second rare care.

www.psmag.com/health-and-behavior/is-medicines-gender-bias-killing-young-women

www.autism.org.uk/about-autism/introduction/gender-and-autism/preparing-girls-for-adulthood.aspx

There are other conditions such as ME, CFS, Fibromyalgia, Ehlers danlos syndrome and postural orthodontic tachycardia syndrome (often first misdiagnosed as CFS/ME fibromyalgia) taking a long time to be diagnosed, with poor treatment if any available. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10904532/ME-one-third-of-patients-wrongly-diagnosed.html Conditions that predominantly make women and girls worse due to female muscle type and hormones. Yet EDS is thought to be the most neglected condition in present day medicine, by a leading expert in the condition.

Why in 2015 are women being given poor health care, considered second class to Men in cardiovascular and autism in diagnosis and treatment? Why are we being fobbed off as primarily mentally ill when we are actually physically ill or simply in ownership of a different autonomic system/ brain structure/connective tissue type?

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shovetheholly · 30/09/2015 08:38

I can't speak to other issues, but there is a BIG problem with gynaecological issues not being taken seriously. In particular, with women presenting with painful bleeding and not being investigated quickly. And this is true for a huge range of conditions and not just one or two.

In some cases it leads to extended misery, and a kind of medical 'gaslighting' ('You're just normal, love!') which is cruel. In some cases, it is fatal. If you look at data for young women with cervical cancer, then many have been back and back and back to GPs complaining of bleeding, and have NOT been appropriately referred for further tests.

In the worst cases, any woman still of childbearing age is treated like a hysteric about pregnancy, even if she is explicitly saying that her fertility is not the issue.

I am planning to start a website on this issue to empower women to pester and hustle at the GPs when presenting with symptoms of bleeding. The idea is to demand that we have control over what they consider to be acceptable. It is NOT going to be about any particular condition, but simply about the way in which this symptom is dealt with. Because while having periods is a normal and natural part of being a woman, bleeding until you are anemic, bleeding uncontrollably, or bleeding every single day without remission are NOT, and no woman should have to tolerate that.

howtorebuild · 30/09/2015 09:05

Fantastic idea, thank you.

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elementofsurprise · 30/09/2015 09:21

shovetheholly Can you add severe pain/accompnaying weakness and vomiting to that?

I'm an endo sufferer who doesn't get heavy periods (if anything the endo has lightened them) and one of the reason's my pain was dismissed was the lack of heavy bleeding. My GP also prescribed tranexamic acid, for heavy bleeding, when I explained how bad the pain was - completely inappropriate and potentially dangerous.

elementofsurprise · 30/09/2015 09:26

argh rogue apostrophe

tribpot · 30/09/2015 09:27

Very complex issues. I have a husband who suffers from fibromyalgia so my feelings on it are less to do directly with the female experience; these are complex, cross-specialty conditions and healthcare (at least in this country) doesn't do well with this kind of thing. By definition something which only falls within the remit of cardiology is 'easier' (not if you've got it I'm sure) because it's one specialty, one team.

However, is medicine organised into specialties and we're only now beginning to see the rise of 'multi-disciplinary teams' because it was dominated by men and thus the type of diseases men are more prone to?

That said, healthcare avoidance is a massive problem among men, so if women are being poorly served by healthcare, so are men albeit in a different way. One may almost be feeding the other - if an already sexist GP mainly sees women (and children) it reinforces the attitude 'these bloody women, always coming in and complaining'. Which then perpetuates the idea that seeking help for health issues is a 'women's thing' and thus sexist men don't want to be seen to be doing it.

To me inequalities in healthcare (and there are lots, of course - I know many people who feel they have only managed to navigate the bewildering mess of the way the NHS works in England because they were middle class and pushy, and who feel very concerned about how less advantaged people cope) are all encompassing.

AftosPouEinaiDeMasHezeisRe · 30/09/2015 09:53

Why are we accepting this?

Because people don't realise. They don't know that men and women have different symptoms for the same condition. They don't know that we may need different approaches to treatment.

And when they come up against it, and their problems are dismissed, they minimise it, they tell themselves it is just them.

My mother was told for years by her doctor that she just had to put up with her severe back pain and the problems associated with the hysterectomy she was forced to have. She suffered. It was only when she moved house and registered with a new GP that she discovered that there were things that could be done to alleviate it. She never realised the previous doctor was just a misogynist. I suspect she is not the only one.

shovetheholly · 30/09/2015 09:55

elements - I was intending to focus on bleeding as a symptom, but you're right that there are so many other areas in which women's voices are not being properly 'heard'. Endo is one of the worst conditions - I think I read recently that the average time from first presentation to diagnosis is something like NINE YEARS! How is that REMOTELY acceptable?! So perhaps I'm thinking too narrowly and I should broaden it to 'hearing' women on women's issues. With bleeding as a kind of case study.

I think there is something around gynae things specifically where women are just supposed to tough through it. And this is a strange door that swings both ways - on the one hand, it acknowledges the rigours of birth as one of the most extreme physical experiences generally gone through by either sex, promoting a view of the toughness of women and their ability to chug along putting up with things. On the other, it is connected to the very disabling ideas of hysteria as a 'female' disorder promoted by a lot of early psychology, so a view of their weakness, which is also an element in the failure to listen.

(As you can probably tell, I'm in the earliest phases of planning this, so all suggestions welcome. I DO want to limit it to issues that women alone face, though, rather than more general health inequalities, though I recognise tribpot's point that these are severe, and I definitely agree that certain skills that tend to be more middle class are needed to navigate the health system as it stands).

Perhaps more controversially, I also think that there are elements in our own culture as women where we don't help ourselves and I want to tackle this. For example, there is a kind of oneupmanship around health, where one woman will mention something and (often under a pretext of empathy) another woman will chip in with an experience that, on the face of it, is even worse. It's at its most awful with birth, but you also see it with other gynae issues too. I have had this happen more times than I can count when telling my own story, and it has often felt like a kind of negation. Very often, it has been done in a way that unhelpfully tries to pit an acute crisis against a chronic condition, when the two are hardly comparable. (With similar cases, there's also a kind of raw size thing, a 'my fibroid/baby/scarring was bigger than yours'). I feel that it prevents us from 'seeing' each individual case and the patterns between them and instead promotes a kind of attitude of 'What is she complaining about? I had it worse AND I MANAGED'. It deflects attention away from the very real structural problems that women face in navigating healthcare systems, rather than building solidarity and empathy.

ChipInTheSugar · 30/09/2015 09:59

I would add in the (anecdotal, read in accounts on MN) refusal of GPs to remove a Mirena coil when asked to by the woman who is experiencing negative and unwanted side effects.

ALassUnparalleled · 30/09/2015 10:23

Personal experiences here but the (entirely female staffed) Well Women clinic to whom my male GP referred me to for painful periods were hopeless.

I can't remember if it was a coil or an implant they suggested but whatever it was I was told if it didn't suit I couldn't expect NHS to remove it as it is expensive.

Problem was eventually solved privately by a male gynaecologist.

shovetheholly · 30/09/2015 10:25

Chip - yep, I had that too! It's one of the many treatments for heavy bleeding. I can understand a bit of reticence in the first instance, because it takes a while (i.e. about 6 months) for the side-effects to calm down and for it to start working. And it is expensive. But I experienced a direct refusal to remove it in spite of having it in for well over a year (it didn't even make a dent on the problem).

At the same time, I got stuck in an STD loop. Every time I went to the GP and complained, they did an STD test. Again, this is not a stupid thing to do in the first instance- it's possible that similar symptoms could be caused by an STD after all, and STDs are common. However, I got STUCK there. So they tested me SIX TIMES in spite of the fact that every single time I was completely clear.

In the end, I went to the GUM clinic at the hospital and explained the problem to a consultant. Who took out the coil, tested me for everything and then wrote a stinging letter to my GP telling her to get her finger out and try something else.

It was another 3.5 years before I actually got the surgery I needed, though. There were further sections of the flowchart that had to be battled through in primary care. And in the meantime, my health did a total nosedive. By the end, I just couldn't function at all - I had to give up my job and couldn't even climb a flight of stairs.

shovetheholly · 30/09/2015 10:27

ALass - that's awful. And you are not alone in having that experience, sadly. Can I ask if your experience of private medicine was different?

Moln · 30/09/2015 10:35

My personal experience was going to my GP about heavy periods (with a doubling up on tampon plus two nighttime towels I got less than an hour before my clothes got soaked in blood.)

He told me "ohh it happens to half the population you know"

He expected his payment still for this insight (no free GP care where I live 50-60 a visit for children and adults)

I never went back to him, and moved my entire family to a new GP. (One that help me come to a life where I could leave the house during a period)

howtorebuild · 30/09/2015 10:36

Are there any groups that lobby parliament, regarding this issue?

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howtorebuild · 30/09/2015 10:42

Bbc2 now, same issue with MS.

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shovetheholly · 30/09/2015 10:45

MoIn - I know what you mean. I've lived that inability to leave the house, and heard the story from so many other women. We are LEGION! Only we don't know it, perhaps because many of us have been too embarrassed to discuss it. Time to band together and stop this from continuing to happen!

howto - I am not sure there are. But there does need to be. My concern is that splitting it along lines of disease just divides the problem into a million pieces, all of which can then be pictured as competing with each other for resources - we need something to gather it together into a pattern and allow us to lobby collectively.

PassiveAgressiveQueen · 30/09/2015 12:14

perhaps because many of us have been too embarrassed to discuss it.

for 2 days a month i have heavy periods a super plus tampax lasts me 1 hour.

Is this normal? I have no idea as nobody talks about it and when you try you get shut down with "euwww TMI".
If we had a conversation and everyone got to understand the norms that would help.

My aunt had to wear a towling nappy during her period she put up with this for years as was to embaressed to see anyone or talk about it (yes she was very ill when she got it fixed)

howtorebuild · 30/09/2015 12:25

I actually have endometriosis. I am soaked through and soil bedding with blood two nights a month, despite using a nightime pad. I am also in very bad pain for up to three weeks per month due to endometriosis.

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ALassUnparalleled · 30/09/2015 12:31

The private gynaecologist suggested endometrial ablation. The Well Woman clinic never even mentioned it. I appreciate endometrial ablation is not for everyone as you can't become pregnant again but I had no wish at all to be pregnant again so it was perfect for me.

howtorebuild · 30/09/2015 12:32

What is involved in endometrial ablation?

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Moln · 30/09/2015 12:46

PassiveAgressiveQueen I have discussed it. No it's not normal in the sense you should live with it but yes it's normal in the sense there's a fair amount of women trying to live with it.

My (decent) GP tried these tablets with me, which were very expensive (I'm in Ireland so pay for prescrition drug at their cost) and weren't too effective for me, they dealt with the pain and huge golf ball sized clots but not with the heaviness.

Oddly enough what worked for me was Evening Primrose and Starflower oil.

BuffytheFeminist · 30/09/2015 12:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ALassUnparalleled · 30/09/2015 13:00

What is involved in endometrial ablation?

It's sort of what used to be called a "D and C" ( dilation and curretage) but much more sophisticated.

Most of the uterus lining is destroyed using laser, radiofrequency waves, microwaves or heated water. It sounds awful but it's done as a day treatment. I think the NHS might even do it under a local anaesthetic but privately it's done under a general anaesthetic.

www.bupa.co.uk/health-information/directory/e/endometrial-ablation

I went from flooding every 20 days to no periods at all.

howtorebuild · 30/09/2015 13:06

Oh my problem is outside the uterus.

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