Webchat with Green Party leader Natalie Bennett, Wednesday at 1pm x

Anti feminist meme.

(65 Posts)
Slipperyslopin Thu 31-Jan-13 22:22:32

www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=hp&cp=24&gs_id=2l&xhr=t&q=equal+rights+equal+rights+meme&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41642243,d.d2k&biw=1366&bih=643&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=xd0KUf32PKqx0AWEmoDgCg#imgrc=v_3HCUV7zZnxFM%3A%3BBi7QsD6OD8Tm1M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fstatic4.fjcdn.com%252Fcomments%252F3436879%252B_d3f5b44914934ce4cd8578d59285923a.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.funnyjunk.com%252Ffunny_pictures%252F3437323%252Ffeminist%252Bteacher%252F%3B400%3B392
Saw this and was initially quite annoyed but it got me thinking about it. What is actually expected nowdays for treatment of women? Would we still consider it worse to hit a woman than to hit a man? Are men still expected to hold doors open to women? And if that sort of thing is expected, isn't it hypocrytical to say we want equal rights while expecting special treatment? I don't know, I'm all confused now. Thoughts?

AbigailAdams Fri 01-Feb-13 19:29:21

Yep. Good idea.

ecclesvet Fri 01-Feb-13 23:02:24

I've never really put weight in the argument that women deserve protection from violence any more than men because they're smaller/weaker. There's a lot of variation in men too, but no-one really cares if a big guy and a smaller guy were fighting, no-one claims that the bigger guy should have taken the high road because retaliation would have been disproportionate (not that it isn't true, just that no-one seems to apply the same arguments).

I lived over the road from a pub for a while, and I saw a lot of women abusing the 'you don't hit girls' rule by provoking men, goading their boyfriends to fight, etc, and generally being a lot more mouthy than the men. The men in comparison seemed to be more reserved, I assume because they feared that if they got similarly belligerent there was a risk they'd get punched.

True, eccles.

I find the 'I don't hit girls' thing deeply creepy, actually. It's effectively someone saying they'd like to hit you, isn't it?

I saw a bloke doing this once, getting right into some poor woman's face and yelling how she was pushing him but he couldn't hit a woman. I know that is only an anecdote but is struck me very strongly that it is a really nasty kind of threat, that they could hit you and it'd all be absolutely fine ... the only reason not to is that you're a woman. Not that hitting people is wrong. Not that you might not deserve to be hit. But just because they're too nice to hit women.

How creepy is that?

OneMoreChap Sat 02-Feb-13 08:34:20

LRDtheFeministDragon

I find the 'I don't hit girls' thing deeply creepy, actually. It's effectively someone saying they'd like to hit you, isn't it?

No, it's a statement of principle.
In my case drummed into me by my father from an early age.

I know that is only an anecdote but is struck me very strongly that it is a really nasty kind of threat, that they could hit you and it'd all be absolutely fine ... the only reason not to is that you're a woman. Not that hitting people is wrong. Not that you might not deserve to be hit. But just because they're too nice to hit women.

Being too nice... hmm
Hitting people is wrong is a generous philosophy, one which all Christians should espouse.

I would be more Old Testament in my response, and as I've indicated elsewhere, when pulling a wifebeater away from his wife, sometimes waiting 25 minutes for the police doesn't seem like an option.

MechanicalTheatre Sat 02-Feb-13 09:28:34

OneMoreChap

"I find the 'I don't hit girls' thing deeply creepy, actually. It's effectively someone saying they'd like to hit you, isn't it?"

"No, it's a statement of principle.
In my case drummed into me by my father from an early age."

Anecdotal once more: my partner has never come out with this "I don't hit girls" horseshit. My ex did, quite often. Only one of them is a controlling twat who gets up in your face when he's angry. Guess which one it is?

AmandaPayne Sat 02-Feb-13 09:53:18

Believing you should not hit women may be a position of principle drummed into a child since birth (though personally I would prefer to teach any sons I had that you don't hit).

Stating that you don't hit women in any form of heated situation is always going carry an implicit threat. The reason many men were taught that by their fathers is because women are the physically weaker sex (in the context of a fight, rather than on other matters necessarily). Stating that you don't hit women is basically saying "I am stronger than you. I have power over you. It is in my gift not to use that power". That is creepy as fuck as far as I am concerned.

OMC - oh, I get that it's a statement of principle.

But isn't that principle a bit creepy?

I can understand the principle 'I won't hit anyone', but to say it's specifically to do with gender implies that you would hit this person if they were a man, doesn't it?

FastidiaBlueberry Sat 02-Feb-13 10:08:39

Yes I agree.

It's like they're being so generous and decent and we should all give them a fucking cookie for not hitting us.

Guess what, I don't hit people at all, even those I could hit and hurt and not be hurt back, not because I'm so nice and decent, but because I'm conscious that I don't have the right to.

These men are implying that they would be within their rights to do so, but are only holding back because they're so nice (and that means they probably deserve a blow-job from somewhere, incidentally, if anyone's around). But they wouldn't be within their rights to do so and they deserve cookies and blowjobs for not doing so.

FastidiaBlueberry Sat 02-Feb-13 10:11:11

Sorry obviously that should say they don't deserve cookies and blowjobs.

grin

I agree that the 'I don't hit women' statement is a bit annoying. It's basically a man announcing his superior status and reminding the woman that he is (theoretically) physically stronger than her and could hurt her if he chose to.

colditz Sat 02-Feb-13 10:42:05

The implication, when a man says "I don't hit women", is that we're I not a woman, he would be hitting me because I deserve to be hit. So the only thing standing between me and a broken jaw is my breasts.

Can men seriously not see that this is threatening behavior? You shouldn't hit ANYONE! Women shouldn't hit men, because its assault, and illegal. Men shouldn't hit women, because its assault and illegal. Not through some twisted sense of whose genitals give them protection against male violence.

On the other hand, 'don't hit people who are smaller/weaker/more vulnerable than you' is not a bad principle to teach children.

Slipperyslopin Sat 02-Feb-13 10:52:04

So if a man domestically abused a vunerable woman you can HONESTLY (and I mean this, not just posting stuff you wouldnt actually feel so you look better) say that you would view that equal to another man being beaten up and bullied. Because although I view myself as feminist I have to say I would be more angry about the woman. Which makes me feel a bit sad really.

FastidiaBlueberry Sat 02-Feb-13 11:07:54

"So if a man domestically abused a vunerable woman you can HONESTLY (and I mean this, not just posting stuff you wouldnt actually feel so you look better) say that you would view that equal to another man being beaten up and bullied."

Why would you think that Slipperyslopin?

colditz Sat 02-Feb-13 11:08:40

Yes I do, I really do view that as equal! In what way is it acceptable to abuse and bully someone? How is it more acceptable if they have a penis?

An honest question ... Do you have a son? I have two. I don't want someone to think its ok to hit my sons because they aren't girls.

FastidiaBlueberry Sat 02-Feb-13 11:20:17

I don't understand what the question means tbh.

What is this "it's equal"?

It's not equal, it's not not equal, it's just all wrong.

I don't want my DS beaten up either.

But it's simply meaningless to say: "would you rather your daughter was in a DV relationship where she was beaten up once a month or your son was mugged and beaten up on his way home from the pub one night?"

It's just silly. Nobody wants either, do they?

And of course it's equally wrong to beat someone up if they have a penis, or if they have a vagina.

Talking about being mugged on the way home as if it is the same as DV and involves the same dynamics and interactions, is meaningless though and I don't really know what the point is.

FastidiaBlueberry Sat 02-Feb-13 11:22:12

It's like that question about whether you'd like to be beheaded with an axe, which might take a few blows for the head to come off but you might be unconscious from the first blow, or with a guillotine where your head will come off immediately but you might remain conscious for 10 seconds afterwards or whatever it is (knowing that your head is disconnected from your body).

We just think de-capitation is a bad thing, don't we?

BelaLugosisShed Sat 02-Feb-13 13:17:13

I thought I was the only one who saw behind OMC's oh-so-reasonable online persona, glad to see others are catching on.

OneMoreChap Sat 02-Feb-13 20:53:40

You really, really want men to walk away and ring the polis when they see a women being smacked?

Good luck.
Rest assured, I won't.

shock

Are you serious?

Please do. You could save someone's life.

kim147 Sat 02-Feb-13 21:17:44

LRD - I think he's referring to stepping in and taking action against the attacker. Not turning a blind eye.

OneMoreChap Sat 02-Feb-13 21:21:32

As I've said before.

I've intervened.

Once, it took the bobbies 25 minutes to arrive.

Still, I shouldn't have grabbed the bloke off the woman, knocked him down and sat on him.

Because it's wrong to use violence

I have no idea where some of you live...

Well, precisely. sad

For what it is worth, you should never try to intervene if you can call the police. You should always call the police first. Same if you saw a house on fire.

I know it seems counter-intuitive but it is the right thing to do.

You can try to intervene then, but it mustn't be the first thing you do, as I understand it.

kim147 Sat 02-Feb-13 21:22:32

And I'd hope someone would step in if they saw someone being attacked on the streets - regardless of gender.

Unfortunately too many people are scared (for obvious reasons) to step in and get involved.

OMC - my brother works in the area of London with the highest rates of violence across the country, and I take my advice from him. Since you ask.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now