Mumsnet Talk

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/9753313/Ireland-to-legalise-abortion.html

Predictably the RC church has called it a licence to kill babies (as opposed to the current situation where there seems to be a licence to kill mothers as the recent case of Savita Halappanavar illustrated).

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/9754923/Church-condemns-Irish-abortion-reform-as-licence-to-kill-babies.html

It's only going to become legal to save mother's lives. Not if you've been raped, or if the baby is unviable or if women in Ireland actually want to have some say over what happens in their own body.

Nope, it's only going to happen to women who are about to die because the Irish government are a bit peeved that the label 'woman killer' got so much bad publicity internationally.

Quite so slug: thus the "well a bit" sarcasm alert in my header. Doubt it will change anything except maybe not standing by and deliberately letting a woman die - maybe.

I think the Guardian has a better explanation of what's proposed:
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/18/ireland-legalise-abortion-life-risk

They say, "The reforms are expected to allow terminations where there is a medical risk to a woman's life or when she is thought to be in danger of killing herself."

So at least they say that doctors can perform an abortion if a woman faces fatal risk, as should have been clear in Savita Halappanavar's case. But mere suffering by the woman, or risk to her health, doesn't get a mention at all.

The health minister makes it pretty clear how enthusiastic the government is about this whole business:

"We must fulfil our duty of care towards [pregnant women]. For that purpose we will clarify in legislation and regulation what is available by way of treatment to a woman when a pregnancy gives rise to a threat to a woman's life. We will also clarify what is legal for the professionals who must provide that care while at all times taking full account of the equal right to life of the unborn child."

I think people in Ireland should seize in any and every liberalisation that's offered, regardless of how dubious the reasoning behind it, then press for more. I don't think a wholesale change would be accepted, so change will have to come in small increments for the moment.

we seemed to have coined a new phrase over here. Abortion 'on-demand'. Apparently we don't want it. God forbid a woman find herself pregnant and want to terminate a pregnancy for a non-medical reason.

I despair of this country sometimes.

orla I got a house visit from the local god squad church goers telling me it was my christian duty to protect the unborn complete with obvious later stage scan pictures.
Nice that they are so concerned about controlling women a foetus and yet there are children across the world living in abhorrent conditions which would benefit from their concern.

It'll be interesting to see how the letter of the law is interpreted.

If I had a high risk of developing severe PE, for example, and I wanted to abort early on, could this be construed as a risk to my life and thus would I be allowed to abort?

If it gets interpreted as an 'immediate' or 'inevitable' threat to life then only a few extreme cases (possibly, but only possibly, including that of Savita) would be legally allowed to abort.

I think I've lived out of Ireland for too long. I spoke to my (albeit staunch Catholic) mother and the only argument she would listen to was 'but pretty much every other country sees this as a medical right'.

I got a lot of "young wans going out and getting pregnant and thinking great! I'll have an abortion!" But no thought how very difficult and costly it is to access emergency contraception, even if you can get it though a chemist. Never mind if you are a teenager with no access to funds. And never ever ever a mention of the boy/man in all this. Always the woman.

I have the rage.

So presumably Irish women can now have an abortion performed in Ireland just by saying "I'll kill myself otherwise"?

That's a RADICAL change in Irish law isn't it?

I don't think women could get an abortion on those grounds before, could they?

Are there any limits on the upper age of the foetus that is to be aborted?

Anybody know?

AreYouADurtBird, I got an envelope through the door with a picture of a full-grown baby on it with a Caption asking if he didn't have the right to life?
This after my own baby died of SIDS last year.
I flung it in to the bin raging and tearful. If those fuckers come to my door, I'll give them what-for.

Zavi, we apparently had that right 20 years ago after the X case but no-one bothered to legislate for it.

I actually think that if the UK wasn't so close and Ryanair wasn't so cheap and our politicians weren't so quick to shove the problem eastward, it might have been legislated for sooner.

Chip I'm so sorry about your baba. I'm a long-timer with many NC behind me. I always looked out for my fellow Irish ladies on the boards. x

ChipMonkey I'm so very sorry to hear that xxxx
A nation should be protecting its women not just the contents of her uterus. I am just waiting for them to knock on my door.

zavi they will have to be assessed whether they really are suicidal. No doubt the church will weedle its way in on that.

yes Breda O'Brien had a lovely article in the times the other day abut how we don't listen to suicidal people cos they're suicidal and we have to make decisions fr them in their best interest