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Defence of Jimmy Salville Against Allegations

(54 Posts)
EatsBrainsAndLeaves Tue 02-Oct-12 20:14:01

I am sure like many of you I have been reading the allegations that Jimmy Salville sexually abused children aged 13 and up. Moreover it is alleged that many people knew or suspected this was happening, but it still carried on.

This link takes you to a page which has links providing different information about these allegations.

http://www.whale.to/c/jimmy_saville.html

But what really strikes me is if all of these people had suspicions, why did nobody raise the alarm? I can see that him being famous raises issues for some people, but for example on of the girls told the home she was in and they dismissed her alleagtions. They could easily have passed her allegations onto the police without any real issues for them. So why didnt they?

And why are some people falling all over themselves to defend him when the documentary showing the allegations hasnt even been screened yet? Surely they should watch it and decide whether they think he is guilty or not? I dont understand why some are so quick to defend a celebrity they dont personally know.

WidowWadman Tue 02-Oct-12 20:18:31

whale.to? Really? FFS.

halloweeneyqueeney Tue 02-Oct-12 20:18:46

this is quite chilling:

"Savile’s niece Janet Humble said: ‘As a family, we just wish Sir Jim could be left to rest in peace. He did more good than bad in his life"

at work today there was the whole "he's dead its wrong to talk ill of the dead" nonsense! potential victims are still alive they matter more than someone who is gone!

EatsBrainsAndLeaves Tue 02-Oct-12 20:39:48

Yes I agree. Imagine if you had been raped as a 13 year old hearing people saying that nobody should talk about it because you shouldn't speak ill of the dead!

kim147 Tue 02-Oct-12 20:42:48

It's also a bit concerning that the founder of Childline said she had concerns about Jimmy Saville but never did anything about it. What is her charity supposed to be about?

EatsBrainsAndLeaves Tue 02-Oct-12 20:45:05

Exactly. But why didnt she? It sounds like many had suspicions and nobody did anything. And I dont understand why.

There are some very creepy passages in his auto biography where he admits sex with underage girls.

I think many of the children he abused may not have been in a fit state to raise the alarm, sadly.

And those who tried to probably found it horrible hard.

God knows why people still support him.

AGoldenOrange Tue 02-Oct-12 22:09:53

Strange for the feminist section to mention Esther Rantzen, but not Paul Gambaccini who himself has said that he has waited 30 years before saying something hmm

BigStickBIWI Tue 02-Oct-12 22:11:54

Why is this posted in Feminism/women's rights?

scarlettsmummy2 Tue 02-Oct-12 22:15:13

It is posted in feminism as it is another example of the rights of women being deemed of less significance to those of a man.

EatsBrainsAndLeaves Tue 02-Oct-12 22:16:48

I posted it here because child abuse is a feminist issue and in particular the fact that so many are defending him is a feminist issue. Women alleging child abuse, should not be dismissed in this way.

kim147 Tue 02-Oct-12 22:22:56

I mentioned Esther Rantzen because she set up Childline. Yet she had concerns about an alleged sex offender. And did nothing.

LaVolcan Tue 02-Oct-12 22:25:34

But what really strikes me is if all of these people had suspicions, why did nobody raise the alarm? I can see that him being famous raises issues for some people, but for example on of the girls told the home she was in and they dismissed her alleagtions. They could easily have passed her allegations onto the police without any real issues for them. So why didnt they?

But what of all those children abused by priests which was covered up for years? The children weren't believed for the most part, and accused of making up wicked lies about 'good' men. The same could have happened here.

Leithlurker Tue 02-Oct-12 22:26:17

I would think that in the same way as a lot of people, as evidenced right here on MN are not waiting to convict JS of awful crimes before even seeing the documentary, the same will be true of those who are defending him with out waiting to see the documentary.

I am appalled by the trial by social media that is going on, lets have some facts, a detailed investigation, a public record of any findings, not a witch hunt or a tv programme the has been made to tell a particular story.

Let us also not get so caught up in looking for blame from those in charge of the bbd, that we do not forget to ask in who's interest would it be to have a major public discreditation of the BBC.

But by no means least let us find out the truth like Hillsburgh or the Birmingham six, let's not work on the basis of no smoke without fire let's work on facts.

I believe them

EatsBrainsAndLeaves Tue 02-Oct-12 22:30:32

I have no issue of waiting to see the evidence which is why I have talked about allegations. But those defending him are not saying - well lets wait and watch the documentary. They are saying let him rest in peace, like the woman making the allegations don't matter.

Leithlurker Tue 02-Oct-12 22:30:59

Child abuse is indeed a feminist issue as well, as an issue for everyone who is concerned with children, the laws, justice, equality, and human rights. I hope you were not inferring that it is only a feminist issue, you will forgive my slightly cynical point here EBAL but you inspire no confidence from your previous posts which have been partisan to say the least.

Leithlurker Tue 02-Oct-12 22:32:38

They are reacting to allegations. And in the case of his family I would imagine that it is a fairly natural thing to want to protect the memory of someone that was dear to you.

AGoldenOrange Tue 02-Oct-12 22:45:21

I mentioned Esther Rantzen because she set up Childline. Yet she had concerns about an alleged sex offender. And did nothing.

She has said that she knew of rumours and gossip she never saw anything and none of the victims came to her. What was she suppose to report and to whom? Remember she was a young woman in the 70's.

Yet the former BBC producer Wilfred De'ath has said that he wasn't surprised about the abuse as it was 'common gossip'.

So people higher up in the chain knew, yet nothing was done.

Remember that Rantzen has been the first person to say that she believes the women.

Treats Tue 02-Oct-12 22:54:01

What AGoldenOrange said.

By setting up Childline, Rantzen has done more than practically anyone in the country to tackle child abuse. I don't think it's fair to criticise her for not reporting Jimmy Savile - what, realistically, could she have done.

kim147 Tue 02-Oct-12 22:59:01

As a much older and more powerful woman in the 80s and 90s, do you think she could have raised something then?

Remember this was the time Jim'll fix it was on. All those young guys and gals coming back to Uncle Jim, sittting next to him and getting those badges.

I'm not blaming her. It's just a bit worrying when suddenly several well known people have come out and stated they had concerns about him. I'm not saying he is guilty. But what the hell was going on when lots of people had concerns. It bears parallel to other aspects of our society where suspicion was covered up or ignored.

Startailoforangeandgold Tue 02-Oct-12 23:02:18

Sadly what I think is being forgotten is just how much we've moved on.

Back in the 70 and 80 when I was a child. I'd never heard the word pedophile. I knew I mustn't get into strange cars because a small number of men murdered children.

But the idea that relatively normal men, family, teachers etc might not find a young girl sexually attractive never entered my head.

I spent a lot of time alone with one of my teachers. Nothing happened. I will never know if he'd have like something to. But the other science teachers must have thought it odd, but said nothing.

If he had meant to take it further, I'm sure he wouldn't have done by force and he knew me well enough to know I would have said something.

He moved on an took a second wife only slightly older than me.hmm

Startailoforangeandgold Tue 02-Oct-12 23:07:11

I should add that I simply thought he was being friendly. It only with hindsight I wonder. I'm certain I was used for company when he wanted it and ignored when he didn't. Did he hope for more than that, I'm glad I'll never know.
Would I let him near my DDs, no way!

Leithlurker Tue 02-Oct-12 23:14:45

I agree with Kim, the big worry for me is that as a society we seem never to learn lessons. We only just had the Hillsburgh report. We are not long from other major cover ups and scandals in our press. Each and every time we have as a society been ready to condemn and blame way before any hard facts are known. In some cases this has doubled the harm to victims, as well as letting the truly guilty escape justice. In other cases the media have whipped up such a frenzy that anyhope of learning exactly who is responsible for what is lost. What we have and I suspect what we will still have after the programme is aired is allegations that come from people that deserve to be listened to and their allegations treated as truth, but also some proper scrutiny of what they say to establish who did what, who may still be involved, and any charges that can still be made, or any recognition that these women need some kind of process to allow them to feel vindicated.

The conspiracy theories though need to be laid to rest, the wildest allegations about other prominate people, I have even seen on here the suggestion that we only joined the eec as a result of Ted Heath being blackmailed in to it as a result of his links with JS, all needs to be done away with as fast as possible, it is absolute crap. But like the 9. 11 people those that keep repeating these things only cause more harm to other innocent people.

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