I need to learn what to do with students who want to misbehave

[CharlotteCollins]

I don't suppose the beginning of the summer holidays is the best time to start a thread... but I do need to come to with a new plan this summer to deal with the students that I've been fairly ineffectual with this year.

This year was my first year back in a comprehensive secondary after nearly 15 years out. I did 4 years at the beginning of my career, then moved into grammar, then at home with DCs.

I've had mainly low ability classes and some children with difficult home lives. I also have some where I am genuinely not sure if they are capable of keeping quiet when they have fallen out with someone else in the room, for example.

One constant problem I have had is insisting on silence when I'm talking. Three times in a lesson of taking while i am means a break time detention. This just seemed to encourage a lot of my year 7 boys to make silly comments and accept the consequences. They want to have demerits/detentions as a status symbol.

(There are also those who don't turn up, nor to the HOD's one, nor to the after school one... and it is not followed up beyond that - this can't be helping.)

It's so frustrating because it really slows the pace of the lesson down. I try to make the lessons interesting, but usually hear muttering of being bored from a few quarters.

Basically, there are a lot of kids who want to get in trouble. I teach maths and they're switched off before we even begin.

I had a reputation for being strict 15 years ago... What's gone wrong? Could it be that I came into this school as a TA, and that's how they still see me? That can't be true of the year 7s, though, who weren't at the school then!

Sorry for the mammoth post, which could be quite confusing to read. Hope someone can help me!

[CheeseBored]

watching with interest. I have taught in various capacities for the last 6 years and would like to go back to secondary mainstream, but my behaviour management is not very good, and it really puts me off.

I know its considered somewhat controversial to 'spoil' badly behaved classes with fun lessons. Maybe try some textbook lessons next time things go to pot?

[Wotsup]

Always be the first into the classroom to 'set the tone'. Have a seating plan. Try NEVER to raise your voice. Wait for quiet and speak in a quieter voice so they have to listen. Try to ignore silly remarks and pick up on good behaviour. Give regular responsibilities to the less interested. Take an interest in the student's and recognise other talents that may not be able to be shown in your subject. Don't compare siblings or talk about them to the kid in class; they need to feel unique. Admit if you make a mistake. Ask senior management if they can set up a Time-Out scheme where the kid can go voluntarily to calm down for 10 minutes or so. Recognise those who probably don't have a stable home life, don't eat a healthy diet. or can't control certain parts of their behaviour due to ADHD, autism etc. and differentiate tasks and homework for the less able. Don't get upset with parents when you give 150% to their child and they write a complaining email...they think teaching is easy as you only have to impart knowledge...don't you?

[CharlotteCollins]

They often seem to prefer the more textbook lessons - more structure, maybe. I don't aim for fun, just engaging. And don't seem to manage that with most of them.

I do send children out and it is usually effective for that child for that lesson. My HOD is very supportive in that regard, although sometimes she has a difficult class herself and then I can't ask her. Theoretically I can see if anyone else in the department will take a difficult child, but that's not easy when it involves leaving my own class! I also get hugely unstuck if I then have a second child in the same lesson who also needs to go. And I think the students know that.

Second in department goes when I send students out. I do have small classes, but challenging ones! I think she's a bit insecure, though, she talks herself up and other people down.

In my first school, a senior teacher would take them away if we called for backup, so to speak, and it would be a serious thing. I think they were often isolated for the rest of the day. Here it's just seen as a fire fighting strategy, and there are no further consequences. Like they're not expected to be responsible for their own behaviour? (It's similar in year 11 where revision is seen almost totally as the teacher's responsibility, to provide extra sessions and notes. )

[CharlotteCollins]

Wotsup, I do most of that, I'd say. I ignore silly remarks to an extent, but a large proportion of the class will pay more attention to the silly remarks than to what I am saying. There are time out strategies for some students like you mention. I feel often that the only way to get anywhere with a group is to get about three of them out of the room to various other places. Doesn't make me feel very competent!

Giving responsibilities - I could try to do that more. Handing out books is often taken as excuse for silliness, though.

[CharlotteCollins]

I do sound very negative... I have to admit at the moment I am not looking forward to next year. In the past, I always have looked forward to the new year at the end of the summer term. Perhaps I'm not cut out for it any more.

[Wotsup]

'I have to admit at the moment I am not looking forward to next year. In the past, I always have looked forward to the new year at the end of the summer term. Perhaps I'm not cut out for it any more.'

Na...you're just a modern day teacher with all the pressures that come with the job. X

[CharlotteCollins]

Thanks, Wotsup, that's encouraging... I think!

I hope you're right about being part of the furniture, Camel. Any suggested reading for me?

Have considered lining up outside, but not a departmental thing, so would be sabotaged by students going into other classes, I think. I do get there before them always and talk in friendly tone like you suggest. Clean start has been difficult this year with the 7s for a number of organisational reasons, but year 8s have had register/starter in same format every lesson and, with the exception of one boy, they got the expectation eventually. So I can definitely keep that.

[CharlotteCollins]

Oooops, massive x-post!

[noblegiraffe]

Look up Tom Bennett, he has loads of fab advice on behaviour management on the Internet, and he has some books too.

[TitusAndromedon]

A little thing I do is ask for the class to stand silently behind their desks with their chairs pushed under and uniforms looking smart at the end of every lesson. It doesn't matter if they're Y7 or Y11. They don't leave the lesson until everyone falls in line. It's one of those little things that demonstrate my clear control of the group. I've never had a single child moan about it, nor have they ever been particularly late for their next lesson.

If lining up outside would be a challenge, perhaps you could do this at the start. You could have them come in and stand behind their desks, showing they look smart and ready to learn. Make a good, sensible start part of the routine.

[CharlotteCollins]

Wow, Camel, thanks for all that advice. I love hearing concrete suggestions like that. There's such a lot of shouting at kids in my department, every other teacher does it, so I think some kids think I'm a soft touch because I don't. I'll work hard to be a firm teacher in the ways you suggest.

I hate making phone calls, absolutely hate it, but I will give that tip a go because it sounds genius... I may do the writing in the planner one more, though - that also sounds brilliant.

[ravenAK]

^^what CamelHump said - establish a relationship.

Also, don't underestimate the power of a nice easy worksheet already on the desk - don't worry too much about what it's teaching - it's teaching them to go in, sit down, & settle! Download some silly ones. One Maths colleague of mine has colour-by-numbers but each area has a simple sum to solve to give the number which corresponds to the colour. Silly prizes for first completed & neatest (sticker or sweet. My bottom set year 10 went mad for my sparkly googly eyed poo stickers).

The talking - I've had some success pointing my whiteboard remote at them & jokily 'muting' them. Or getting the chattiest one on his/her feet writing key bulletpoints from what I'm saying on the whiteboard.

Always an orderly dismissal. Have a list of questions & direct them to named kids (not hands up) - three right answers in a row before the class can go. Make some of them absolutely nothing to do with Maths to keep them on their toes.

Send praise postcards home for the nice ones. Be VERY specific ('well done Cameron for getting 8/10 on the test'). Don't do it in front of the class - put them in registers or have them posted out. You're aiming to get a critical mass of the little buggers secretly on YOUR side, pleased that you've noticed their achievement & starting to think that actually the disruptive elements are a bit tiresome.

After a couple of weeks, next time the ringleader (there's always that one kid) is a pain, arrange with a colleague to have him/her for rest of the week. Don't send him out of the lesson, pre-arrange it so the rest of the class wonder where he is. Doesn't have to be a Maths colleague - if his form tutor will have him sat at the back whilst she's teaching English to top set year 11, great. Set REALLY boring work for him. Be totally bored & unimpressed by all this with the rest of the group when they finally ask where he is - 'oh I've had enough of David wasting our time, I'd rather be able to get on & teach you guys...' Make sure you phone home, & also get David bollocked by his HOY, tutor, any other teacher he respects.

Hopefully he will decide that being a PITA in Maths is not worth the hassle, & meanwhile his peers will have realised that he's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy, & will be enjoying not having their lessons disrupted by him.

If you have the class several times a week, establish one lesson as Treat Lesson - if they've worked well that week, you do a quiz/watch a video/have sweets - it only needs to be the last 10 minutes of lesson. Get something going which becomes a class in-joke - one colleague of mine does karaoke...

[CharlotteCollins]

More x-posts! I wasn't expecting this thread to get any traffic for days! I am so grateful to all of you. I am feeling more positive already.

[Wotsup]

'One other tip which is rarely known - keep your head completely still when you speak to a class. Bobbing it about suggests an empathetic conversation and is not authoritative. If you watch men and women generally in conversation you will notice that women tend to tip their heads a lot. Men don't. Women also add on a lot of verbal tags "...ok?" "...is that all right?" - as if we have been conditioned to request co-operation rather than expect it.'

Great tip. Also when needing to get compliance say "thank you" after the instruction as though you are expecting it to be done rather than requesting.

"Put the pen back on your desk, John, thank you" Then move on immediately to something else.

If you make a request "Will you put that pen away, John?" expect the answer, "No!"...well you did ask.

[CharlotteCollins]

Move on immediately - yy, I need to do this. Waiting too long for compliance is asking for trouble so I need to do that.

Like the idea of "muting", poo stickers and treat lesson... And questions which are not even maths or not even requiring them to think. Lots of very good ideas and food for thought here. I'll look up the reading suggestions, too.

If I'm not careful, I might start looking forward to a new start! (Although a fairly uninspiring scheme of work should bring me back down to earth with a bump.)

[CharlotteCollins]

My memory is terrible, so taking the planet is a great idea... Until they don't have it with them - but I can tackle that next year.

My hours are going down, at my request, from 80% to 40%, so I will have time and energy to deal with things properly rather than just reacting as I have been doing.

[CharlotteCollins]

planner!