MN Campaign for Regulation

(18 Posts)
theodorakis Thu 18-Oct-12 10:33:23

From another thread I can see most people think there should be some kind of regulation of owners. Even, surely the "haters" would support a campaign to do something about the anti social owners, backyard breeders and fair weather owners. Lot's have suggested a licence and/or a compulsary chip programme.

I suggested a MN campaign is a powerful tool and that it could start with a q and a from whatever minister is responsible but everyone ignored me.

Flame if you want, maybe I am being naive but I come from good intentions. I am not even in the UK but have been involved with creating a system where I live. I just think there is such a wealth of knowledge and power here, from the people who have been knocked over by a dog in the park and hate dogs to the rescuers and experts, everyone feels strongly. Why not use it to demand change?

theodorakis Thu 18-Oct-12 10:57:10
GrimmaTheNome Thu 18-Oct-12 11:49:53

OK , how do we do this - perhaps first is to enumerate the various issues that need addressing and after that propose (workable) solutions?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 18-Oct-12 11:54:27

Yes, I would support this. Good places to start:

Banning the sale of live animals on Gumtree, preloved, FB etc.

Licensing of dog breeding - hopefully this would limit the backyard breeders who are just doing it for the money.

Dog licences/dog registration. Dog licenses should be expensive. If people can't afford a dog license, they sure as hell can't afford to care for a dog for the whole of it's life.

Compulsory microchipping.

Education - People need to realise what they are taking on when they get a dog. Dogs require hard work and committment. Puppies chew things and wee in the house. They need exercise and attention.

So many people don't realise that rescue dogs can make very good pets - they are not all damaged and difficult. And you can get rescue puppies.

theodorakis Thu 18-Oct-12 11:56:18

I think anti social behaviour is important as well, lot's of people don't care about dogs but are sick of people not controlling their dogs.

Asmywhimsytakesme Thu 18-Oct-12 11:58:20

Sorry I wouldn't support this - there is too much regulation already and the state doesn't have unlimited funds for yet more regulation.

Dogs can already be removed from owners not looking after them properly.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 18-Oct-12 12:09:44

Asmywhimseytakesme - have a look at the thread that the op has linked to. It is about healthy dogs being pts by vets because the owners cannot look after them - because they have bought a dog with no clue of what dog ownership involves.

Approx 20 abandoned/stray dogs every day are pts in council pounds - that must have an impact on public funds. Taking steps to limit the number of dogs being bred in people's backyards/bought and sold by feckless owners (who end up abandoning them or getting a vet the put them to sleep) would have a huge impact on the number of abandoned dogs having to be dealt with by the council/rescue homes.

GrimmaTheNome Thu 18-Oct-12 12:10:43

>Dogs can already be removed from owners not looking after them properly.
removed to where? overfull rescues or PTS... doesn't really help.

I had a thought on the other thread, which isn't about regulation - it would be of practical help if rescues could register with a central database so that people who can't look after an animal have a better chance of finding a place.

cutegorilla Thu 18-Oct-12 13:22:59

I think a huge amount of the problem could be overcome with strong regulation over breeding. A good breeder is very careful where their puppies go and will always take them back if needs be. So many problems could be avoided by those two things alone!

theodorakis Thu 18-Oct-12 13:30:11

If everyone had to register their dog with a vet to get a licence and neuter them by law, it would be a start. A cheap licence for neutered dogs and a bloody expensive licence for un-neutered breeding dogs. I know so many men who would never castrate their dog because "he's a man innit".

Another issue is vaccinations. In the UK I don't believe that Parvo is an issue at the moment but the growing number of strays and people who don't bother mean it may be in the future.
In Qatar it is a very real problem and watching dogs with parvo die a slow and painful death and also seeing it spread through entire neighbourhoods like the plague bring home to me how important it is.

theodorakis Thu 18-Oct-12 13:32:12

I think that veterinary clinics and pharmaceutical companies have some responsibility here. While they are businesses, morally I just do not believe that vaccinations need to be so expensive. I can buy them wholesale here, about £1.60 for the course. I can also buy microchips for 80p each. They are not dodgy ones from Egypt, the vaccinations are imported from the UK!

issey6cats Thu 18-Oct-12 16:04:16

one of the problems with some legislation is poeple who backstreet breed will still carry on breeding they will just sell the pusp for less money if they cant get thier pups registered with the kc, puppy farms if made to reduce thier number of breding dogs will just simply dump all the older dogs and get fewer but younger ones and carry on, people who dont have much money will dump thier dogs rather than get them chipped and licenced the poeple who care about thier dogs now will carry on caring and the people who dont care will still not care, and if theoretically all these animals got dumped who will pick up the pieces, yes the rescues who are at breaking point already

Compulsory microchipping is helpful - but be aware that Northern Ireland now has this and yet also has the highest per capita rate of strays in the UK. Wales is likely to introduce it next year (has opened consultation) and DEFRA are looking very hard at it in England. Not sure of the situation in Scotland.

Wales recently consulted on dog breeding and moved away from requiring every litter of pups to require registration. New regs are likely to introduce a threshold of three bitches plus we will have compulsory chipping of all pups, and dogs kept in breeding establishments.

As with so much regulation, it can only work if it is enforced properly which requires local authorities to change and improve the way they work. At the moment, there is virtually zero political pressure for them to do so - many Councils no longer have dog wardens, and some (not all) kill a disgraceful number of the dogs in their care. I think unless we see some real pressure on Councils, there is little point in introducing more complex regulations.

tazzle22 Thu 18-Oct-12 22:03:44

It would be wonderful, it really would...... and I do think that the principle of cheaper licences for spayed / neutered dogs is great idea is great one

however in the current financial squeeze where they council struggle to have the funds to provide socail care etc I doubt they would provide the resources to set the sytem up.

The money for this would have to come either from charity sources or something like the KC.

The nearest I can think of is like the equine world where charities like the BHS and WHW campaign hard against indiscriminate breeding and the passport system was set up.

Have to say though that experience of this showned that only the responsible, knowledgable people complied and got them done..... and that involves haveing someone like a vet fill in the passport details etc and you have to have on to travel /seel supposedly.

errm in theory yes but by gum the number of horses that turn up at auctions / abbatoirs without one has to be seen to be believed. HOrses are still bred in the thousands indisciminatel and cant even be given away..... they are dumped by the roadsides (alive or dead) , particularily colt foals......... or face days stuffed in wagons going for meat.

so sadly "licencing" has not worked for them and I feel it wont work for dogs.... and I was around when we did have them waaay back lol

I wish fervently it would ....but maybe I am just to old / cynical / realistic to think that "we" (as in whoever comprises the "regulatory body") can effectively police such a system... and there is soooooooo much information out there already about effective pet ownership and its already ignored.

Maybe a much more graphic advert campaign about what happens when humans fail to take note is needs..... but then again most folk think they are not the owner that fails ..... they think they are knowledgable ..... till of course its too late !!!!!!

imperialstateknickers Thu 18-Oct-12 22:54:13

Who IS the minister responsible for the dog 'industry'? Or is it one of those things that falls between several stools? Defra? Home Office? Trade and Industry?

I like the idea of a mahoosive difference in license fee for neutered and unneutered dogs.

Imperial, as I discussed in my post earlier, the devolved administrations have their own responsibilities for animal welfare, so in fact there are four ministers with responsibility. There are similar issues in relation to the oversight of local government who are generally responsible for the enforcement of animal welfare legislation.

Like you, what i've seen of the fiasco of horse passports does not fill me with confidence. sad

bochead Fri 19-Oct-12 10:16:34

I think you need to be VERY careful as the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I'm like many pet owners in the current recession - fairly responsible but with limited means. We own a rescue cat & dog. I can afford to maintain their day to day expenses (food, insurance, vaccs etc) & was able to get them both chipped. However even though our dog is the best therapy my ASD son has ever had - if the costs of ownership were increased by onerous regulation I'd have to pass my loving companion onto rescue. It would break my heart.

I wholeheartedly support chipping being made compulsory and would like just a couple of changes to the current process for this. Pups should be chipped by law at 8 weeks & the address details should be changed when the owner changes as part of the sale (even rescues) and the chip details must be updated annually by existing owners. The updates could all be done online nowadays, reducing admin costs and there could be a nominal fee to cover this (£2 should more than cover annual update costs!).

My reasoning behind this is from watching how a local antisocial behavior team work on a nearby inner city estate with The Dogs Trust. If dogs are chipped so owners are instantly traceable it makes implementing the existing welfare, fouling and out of control dog laws SO much easier to implemement with minimal fuss and fanfare!

n the last 5 years the number of indiscrimate breeders and out of control dog incidents have declined significantly on that estate. ten ears ago that estate was badly bred pitbull central - now the owners are held accountable because their dogs are chipped.

There's been no adverse impact on the pensioners and single Mums with a much loved family pet. Everyone (except a few who have been prosecuted for animal neglect etc) in the community is much happier.

The laws are already there - it's the implementation that needs sorting.

The work to bring greater controls to Welsh puppy farms is great, except that it may be a little too little too late, as animals are now being shipped in from E.Europe where production costs of puppies is cheaper. The Welsh farms will eventually be priced out of the puppy farming market. I do want to see this mass importation of pups clamped down on HARD before it gets out of control.

GoSuckALemon Mon 22-Oct-12 20:43:11

I'm all for dog owners having licenses. This would encourage resposible dog ownership and enable local authorities to have have more control over the dogs and their owners. They would be also able to moniter breeding establishments ,ensuring that the dogs are fully lisensed and cared for properly.

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