Big fat gypsy christmas

(56 Posts)
Bessie123 Fri 28-Dec-12 22:44:05

I just caught 20 mins of this when I was channel surfing. There are loads of little girls trussed up in disgusting heavy but tight dresses with diamonds all over them. It looks so inappropriate, I don't understand how sexualising 7 year olds can be a cultural aspiration. Can anyone explain?

Booyhoo Fri 28-Dec-12 22:45:28

you are the one seeing it as sexual.

Bessie123 Fri 28-Dec-12 22:50:14

Well yes, me and I should think the vast majority of people who see it. That is, the dresses (and the dancing but that is a separate issue) conform to western sexual norms usually followed by adult women as an expression of their sexuality.

Bessie123 Fri 28-Dec-12 22:52:12

I do understand that the traveller community may see it as a way of taking part in some consumerist competition but I do think that if you must do that (yes, I am judging) there are other ways of doing it.

Booyhoo Fri 28-Dec-12 22:54:39

good for you. does it make you feel better to have gotten that out in the open?

Bessie123 Fri 28-Dec-12 22:56:16

It seems self evident to me - already out in the open. I was more interested in an alternative view, do you have one?

Chanatan Fri 28-Dec-12 23:00:40

I have a view,its all a load of bollocks,Romany gypsies would hate to be linked with the image this show is portraying,its not a true representation of the Gypsy and traveller communities,just trash tv made to appeal to the judgemental masses.

Bessie123 Fri 28-Dec-12 23:11:13

It's not very appealing, I've switched over to Friday Night Dinner.

Booyhoo Fri 28-Dec-12 23:15:57

i agree chanatan

i know 'country girls' that dress in similar outfits and i know irish traveller girls who never would.

it's made up bullshit focussing on the behaviour/lifestyle of a very small section of a group of people. it isn't representative of traveller culture. it's just representative of those travellers who very clearly want attention (and so will embellish a bit to get it)

Bessie123 Fri 28-Dec-12 23:29:06

But there are loads of kids at the parties who look like little hookers. Where are the 'normal' travellers, do they not go to the parties and is that why they are never on the show? It's a genuine question, tell me how the lifestyle is different, I am interested.

Bessie123 Fri 28-Dec-12 23:30:46

Sorry, I was also interested in how travellers really assimilate or don't, ie do they tend to go to school more than suggested etc etc. I don't know any travellers in the uk

Booyhoo Fri 28-Dec-12 23:43:05

hookers? you haven't spent much time with prostitutes have you? are you basing that comment on a film by any chance?

what do you mean by 'normal' travellers?

yes most traveller children go to school at least until around 12/13. some go on to do gcses and A-levels.

Bessie123 Fri 28-Dec-12 23:53:39

You're right, I haven't spent much time with prostitutes, in fact, very little (though some, as a naive teenager). But I'm sure you know what I mean.

By 'normal' travellers, I am referring to chanatan's post, where she said that the programme is not represenative of 'most' travellers.

Tbh I am shock at the idea of a child leaving school at 13/14, it is pretty much denying them the opportunity to be independent because they will struggle to make their own money. Of course, this won't always matter but what happens if a wife is being abused? How does she leave her husband and support herself? Does she go back to her family? Is she ever allowed to be independent?

I suppose what I getting at above is that women do not seem equal in traveller culture, they seem like sexualised servants. That is my impression from the programme. I am interested in how the programme misrepresented the culture and what the real situation is.

I should add that my assumptions of traveller culture comes from the tv only, I have no actual knowledge.

Booyhoo Fri 28-Dec-12 23:57:21

no i dont know what you mean.

Booyhoo Fri 28-Dec-12 23:58:09

"I should add that my assumptions of traveller culture comes from the tv only, I have no actual knowledge. "

you didn't need to add this.

Bessie123 Sat 29-Dec-12 00:00:26

Sigh

I mean they look cheap and inappropriately sexual

I added the bit about the tv to encourage you to tell me your experience of traveller culture

Booyhoo Sat 29-Dec-12 00:04:22

again, you are the one who is seeing 7 year old girls as being sexual.

Bessie123 Sat 29-Dec-12 00:07:50

Are you not reading my posts at all? I keep explaining my comments. Do you have anything interesting to add?

Booyhoo Sat 29-Dec-12 00:11:31

nothing you would want to hear.

Bessie123 Sat 29-Dec-12 00:24:50

FFA, what a lame cop out. You have given no information at all. So you can't articulate your position, you can only criticise others, without using a rational argument.

chanatan please come back

Bessie123 Sat 29-Dec-12 00:25:10

FFS, stupid auto correct

Booyhoo Sat 29-Dec-12 00:28:30

you want to hear more 'proof' that these girls are little 'hookers' and that they are uneducated, cheap etc. well i'm not going to do that. sorry, get your fix elsewhere.

nailak Sat 29-Dec-12 00:29:17

but they dont seem to be short of money, they seem to have more money then most of us!

If you have watched the programme you will have seen they wear revealing outfits but also have strict moral rules, they cant go on dates without a chaperone, girls dont drink, they dont have sex before marriage etc, so just coz they wear revealing outfits doesnt make them prostitutes, they dont think of it as sexual. In Thelmas programme when she hired apprentices you can see the girls were shocked by some words such as dick etc as that is what they viewed as sexualised!

There was also a traveller girl on there that wouldnt wear the revealing dresses saying that is not how she had been raised.

sleeplessinsuburbia Sat 29-Dec-12 00:32:35

I get you Bessie! I have no idea if the show portrays the norm, the point is the women they do show discuss often how common it is to leave school early, get married and be a housewife in the community and the clothes are,in my opinion, terrible regardless of their culture.

Bessie123 Sat 29-Dec-12 00:34:31

Yes, nailak, that is true. But what it looks like to me is that the women are completely controlled, used as sex objects and servants. If a young woman is not educated about sex (not educated at all) and is not allowed, because of a strict moral code' to discuss it, but is rather taught to think of it as shameful and disgusting, that is another way of controlling her, isn't it?

The girl who wouldn't wear the revealing outfit was a Romany, not a traveller.

booyhoo maybe if you'd attended school past the age of 14 you would be able to put an argument together, instead of responding like a petulant teenager

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