Mumsnet Talk

Some may remember my story from this board, we took in DP's DN about eighteen months ago. He has been brought up (laxly) by DP's mum, his granny, since his mother and father died when he was a baby. From a very difficult start he is now much more open and communicative and has turned around completely at school, getting from the special help group into top set for nearly everything.

But my relationship with him never seems to get any better. We do some things together (cooking cakes and curries for example) but not as much as we used to. I have to tell him off A LOT. He is very often rude and arrogant (granny allows this when he is with her) and I always pick him up on it, impose sanctions. We do also talk through issues he has at school in a mostly positive way - I mean, I'm telling him off but more explaining why his attitude doesn't work in the real world.

This evening he has been rude to me about dinner, implying it wasn't good enough for him and when I ignored his comment he called me a retard. I have pulled him up yet again and told him I won't be spoken to like that (particularly not in front of DS as he gets older). Yet again there is an atmosphere between us.

I know I should be picking my battles etc. but am I right not to let him be rude to me as a matter of course? I just see long battles ahead and sometimes it's like being stuck in a loveless relationship you're not allowed to leave.

I think you're right to not let him be rude to you, he needs to treat you with respect and that should be a basic house rule. You're obviously doing a brilliant job and teenagers can be very trying. Try to keep up what you're doing and he will appreciate it in the end.

Sometimes my 15 yo DD is really mardy but she knows better than to be rude to me! Just try to remeber that he will eventually grow up and you are doing an amazing thing for him.

Rudeness, lack of communication and wanting to get away from you are all standard teenage stuff and when you combine this with his background you've definitely got a bumpy time ahead.

Of course you have to pick your battles, but calling you - or indeed anyone - a retard is absolutely out of order and its a battle worth picking. Try to grit your teeth and stick with it. If you let him treat you badly then your life will definitely not be worth living, and if he grows up thinking that's ok then you will have failed him too.

Thanks for both your posts. I really appreciate the support I get on here. Louder I wish I could make him know better than to be rude, I don't really know how far to go. I only really seem to have one punishment to hand, which is removing his xbox and computer. But I can't do that all the time.

Oldenough he uses a lot of this sort of language, I always remind him this is not year 9 and I don't want to hear it.

All DP's family have a massive problem with authority, DP included. It is such bad luck to have two from the same stable, if you know what I mean.

I am always the bad guy. We had a meeting with granny and the child mental health people and the psychologist talked to granny about how I had to be more strict that I would like to be because she cannot take a firmer line with him. She understands but has no way of changing.

I have to admit to developing a certain amount of selective deafness. So I ignore a lot of "muttering" or "under the breath" complaining and even insults and swearing, unless it is directed at someone. So I would ignore "where's my fucking schoolbag", but would pick up on "fuck off" directed at a sibling. I have also over the years developed a "death stare" accompanied by the words "What did you just say" used when I have to.

So if I was called a retard, for example. If it was said quietly by a child who was walking away to do as he was told, I might not hear it. If I had to hear it is might use the "what did you say", which would usually elicit a muttered apology, in which case I would let it go. Only if it was repeated would I have a big row.

I would then bring up the word retard at another time altogether to discuss how hurtful and insulting it is, what it's meaning is, and why it is important not to use words like that.

Personally I think a lot of being a teen is learning to fight authority. In my case, it is always me my chiildren will fight - they behave at school (most of the time), they do what dh says (most of the time). I comfort myself by saying that they are sure of me, and therefore I am a safe person to fight, if that makes sense.

I think that you probably realise by now that all teenagers push boundaries, they all fight against authority. You need to minimise the actual fights by having few rules, but applying them absolutely (I always say this, don't I ).

Your last sentence rang bells with me - the loveless relationship bit.

My relationship with ds1 has been like that for 5 years. A lot of very, very hard work with absolutely nothing back. It has been hard, and it is harder for you as you don't have the memories I have of ds1 as a baby, a toddler, a loving member of the family.

But ds is just 18 now, and I am getting glimpses of the child he once was. Sometimes he actually talks to me, occasionally he smiles and yesterday we sat and watched a tv programme and laughed together which I'd say we haven't done since he was 12. So, for me, the slog has been worth it.

As usual, I take my hat of to you .

Hello Maryz thanks for your words of wisdom.

I think he is acquiring new confidence and trying it out a bit. I mean, why wouldn't you, when you know absolutely everything there is to know in the whole wide world and nobody else knows anything

I'm glad he has more confidence these days. Sadly I'm always shocked when I hear him speak to his granny, he can be really vile to her and I suppose he expects to do the same with me.

I too ignore some of the under the breath stuff, particularly since we are lax about swearing in this house - but last night was just awful cockiness. I told him to take me to the international court of sunday dinners if he liked.

I'm glad your DS1 is coming back in line. Children are always worth it aren't they?

DN came back in after our falling out and was all nice and chatty which is his version of an apology, and so on we go. We have parents evening next week and I can only hope it's a different story to last year. We haven't had any negative feedback from the school for ages and only a couple of detentions for very minor issues. And we've bought a big house in Brighton so things should be brighter when we get there, bribe him with a nice room and a puppy, etc.

That all sounds very positive . I think you have to train yourself not to care when they are vile (or at least not to show that you care). Someone once said to me "they can't make you feel angry/inadequate/unloved/used etc., you choose yourself how you feel". And I do think that is true. Difficult to control, though.

If you can adopt an attitude of "so what, shrug" and a polite dispassionate veneer it sometimes confuses them. A bit like pretending not to notice your toddler having a screaming tantrum in a supermarket. You just have to grit your teeth and get on with it.

I think you hit the nail on the head there, with the dispassionate veneer. I sometimes think wants to rile me and I'm playing right into his hands by getting cross with him. I don't want to live in a war zone and I don't want to be spoken to with disrespect. I expect I will have to live in a no-mans land in between.

I'm be practicing my dispassionate face in front of the mirror

You need to also practice the hard stare accompanied by "What did I just hear you say" or "I hope I didn't hear what I thought I heard". I find both of those quite effective.

Especially now they have learned that if they mutter something sounding vaguely like sorry I'll let it go.

ds1 especially, but sometimes ds2 as well now (he's 13 so only starting out as a teen) gets great satisfaction out of making me lose my temper . If he can make me shout, then he justifies his behaviour by telling himself that I am totally unreasonable.

Sort of reverse, reverse psychology .

Exactly - he is always saying 'stop over-reacting' or 'stop shouting at me' when actually I hardly raise my voice and he's the one throwing things around and crying.

I will aim to channel displeasure with an air of Zen.

I'm sure I'll be back though!

Loads of common sense from maryz as always
I have used her words of wisdom myself and it def helps.
I have also taken the very childish attitude of pulling a stupid face at DD or acting like a chimp complete with noises when she was being particulary 'charming' . She tries her hardest but I can see she's laughing. Humour has helped our relationship as it seems to 'break' the moment when a row will erupt.
I have also taken to jumping out of my chair in the evenings and saying 'right we're going for a walk in our PJ's'. DD thought it was great.A bit mad but it seems to be helping!