How to control violent teen??

[GoodDaysBadDays]

dss is 14 and has lived with me and his dad for about 8 years.

He does have recognised emotional an behavioural issues. His Mum is a heroin addict and a negative and unreliable influence, not that there is much contact.

On a bad day (most days):
He is becoming increasingly aggressive, wont listen or rather hear what has been said. Everything is unfair and everyone else gets more than him / treated better. He refuses to carry out anything requested of him. Refuses to engage with me as I am not 'his parent' (wont say Mum as obviously I'm not but I think he says parent as it could lead me into 'yes I am your parent' thus giving him the reinforcement that I do give a shit)

During a good spell (an hour or two a week and usually after a very difficult episode):
He will be extra helpful and polite, quiet and sweet.

This morning was quite horrible - lots of abuse, refusing to leave when his taxi came to take him to school (he was excluded last February and is now in a behavioural, emotional and social Special school and receives taxi transport to school), horrible stuff. After he left I was in tears (again). It is relentless at the moment.

Decided, after speaking to dh to remove the cables for xbox, tv, and pc and he can earn them back for an hour a day. I knew he wouldn't be happy but he really kicked off tonight. Smashed the pictures that were on his walls (canvas art that he had made), cupboard doors took a bashing - the usual stuff but then he went into the garden with his playstation (albeit something he doesn't play anymore but nothing wrong with it) and smashed it on the ground. He then got a pick axe (yes I'm aware it shouldn't have been lying around but it was in dh's work yard so he had to go and find it - everything else is locked away though) and then attacked the playstation with that. I locked the door, my 3 other dc's were inside plus ds2's friend and my sister. When he realised it was locked he was punching and kicking the door. I calmly told him that he could come back in when he was calmer, but he started threatening to smash the windows. My sister wanted me to phone the police, I would have done if he had tried to smash the windows but didn't feel it was necessary until then. He did calm down and came back in but started all over again within a few minutes (on his own in his bedroom.)

I don't know how to deal with this.

I understand he has massive emotional difficulties but I can't tolerate the violence.

Other than taking away privileges (done already today and tried time and time again), grounding (he hardly goes out) Being kind and understanding, being cross and shouty, being firm but fair, treating him with maturity, treating him like a younger child (not in a negative way but expecting less of him) what can I do?

[ivykaty44]

As he has been excluded from school and there are ongoign proceedures there I would think you need outside help of soem nature, really sorry that this is happening but I am way out of my depth try to give you advice - sorry.

I think if I had been your sister I would have wanted to call the police and wonder if you have grwon accustomed to his ways and it is worse than you think it is as you are living with this - yet an outsider is scared

[3littlefrogs]

I would have called the police. No question.

[GoodDaysBadDays]

Outside help is scarce and hard to come by. Since exclusion,or thereabouts, I have been trying to pull in as much support as possible, before I was very much 'we can cope, thanks'.

I go to some groups and have a family support worker and they;re great when I'm there but not much help in the middle of a crisis. Mental Health team have a massive wait and wont touch us without a CAF. School nurse gave me a CAF to complete (usually completed by professionals but I'm 'capable') I asked for help but she 'wasn't qualified' Asked the support unit he was attending after exclusion, they didn't know him well enough and was told to wait til he's in a school. He only got his place mid -december (10 months after being expelled) so have had that wait. Have got app with school wednesday but will still have massive wait for 1st appointment.

ivykaty i think you've hit the nail on the head with me becoming accustomed to his behaviour. I was also so embarrassed that she witnessed it, mortified actually.

Maybe I should have called the police. I almost wanted him to throw something at the window so it gave me reason to phone

[purplepidjin]

This sounds like it could be linked to Attachment issues - he is lovely for a bit, then randomly lashes out because he has to reject you before you reject him, iyswim?

I don't know what you can do for the short term except reassure him he has a home with you and you love him. In the long term, he needs CAMHS to help him work through his issues. Does he have any counselling/therapy?

[GypsyMoth]

A CAF can be completed on your own, my friend recently did hers. Ours was done at school with a class assistant. And the results were through fairly quickly too, few weeks.

I called the police on dd during a similar incident, the pick axe was enough, you didn't need to wait for windows. Next incident like this I would call them.

[Davros]

It sounds to me like he simply can't help it AND it is learned behaviour iyswim. I hate to suggest this as it may get some people's backs up, but does he take any medication? It really could reduce the anxiety he clearly feels. A friend's DS, who is very high functioning, couldn't cope without his meds and he understands it and accepts it. It is not a magic wand but could help a lot while you try other things and build a better relationship. I see there is a long wait for CAMHS but can you badger them or get a social worker involved to help you get access?

[Davros]

ooer, I thought this was the SN teens section so not sure if my post is appropriate. Sorry if not.

[GoodDaysBadDays]

Thanks for the replies everyone

Purple, Some specialists have suggested an attachment disorder but most aren't very keen on that particular label. One said it is too complex The last paed assessment in the summer was as helpful as the rest have been - his conclusion was that dss had traits of everything- autism, add, adhs, attachment disorders, dyspraxia, but none enough for a diagnosis

CAMHS are waiting for the CAF to be done

Tiffany, I was given the CAF to do, and yes I am capable but it was one too many things last year. We finally got the go ahead to have dss assessed for a statement, trying to find him a school (and deciding between mainstream and special) and he was only at the support unit 2 hours a day. Ds2 has SN and has lots of appointments and paperwork, dd is only a baby and it was just too daunting! People (HV being one) kept saying it shouldn't be left to me to complete so It just drifted. I know they're all excuses but hopefully his new school will get it sorted with me tomorrow.

Davros, I did post this in SN teens too, wasn't sure where it would get more traffic, it's sometimes a bit quiet over there! Social Services wont get involved - dss did go back to Mum's very briefly in 2009 (he was desperate to give it a go, she convinced us all she was clean. She wasn't, social services did get involved very quickly but closed the case when he came back home, despite us begging them to stay involved. That's when he was expelled from school. There's so much history, that it would take an age to write! That's one of the reasons the CAF is daunting, I'm not sure what it is they need to know.

I'm not totally opposed to medication, when dss broke his arm he didn't cope very well and kept hacking away at the cast with knives and smashing it against things, HV recommended some medication then but GP wouldn't prescribe.

[purplepidjin]

SN Teens isn't very high-traffic, but SN kids is, maybe try there?

DO NOT under any circumstances let things drift. Keep fighting, and know your rights. With his history, SS should be supporting both him and you as his foster carers.

Unfortunately, the squeakiest wheel gets the most oil, so shout, pout, stamp your feet and throw hissy fits to your hearts content to the "professionals" until they actually bother to do their jobs. Good luck

[Davros]

Would Soc Svs be better approached as support for a teen with a disability (AS)? rather than a child protection issue? Although that is not necessarily going to help I suppose.

[GoodDaysBadDays]

Would that be a different team then Davros?

[Davros]

Yes it would. Your council should have a Disabled Children's Team which is closely associated with CAMHS, Education, Health etc as well as Child Protection but quite separate (I believe!)

[Davros]

Just thinking about this. Disabled Children's Team and Child Protection would have different social workers, different managers and different assessments and reports. So, although they may sometimes have close association, they are separate.

[turningwinds]

I'm sorry about everything you and your family are going through. Your dss's violent episodes are obviously getting grave by the day. My dc almost had the same experience with her ds but in her case, she immediately sent her ds to a therapeutic residential treatment when she could no longer handle his substance abuse and his constant rule breaking. I wasn't aware that there were types of facilities like these who are specialized in dealing with most behavior disorders. My dn has had progress since he went there and we're hoping that it continues.
I'm not an expert or anything but you might want to consider an institution like this. I pray that everything will be okay with your dss soon.
By the way, my dc was talking about this turning winds blog when she mentioned her problem. You might want to check that out. Hope that helps.

[dementedma]

if you feel threatened and afraid call the police. If he is violent and abusive, call the police. Make him, and the services you need to support you,aware of just how serious the problem is or you won't get the help you need!

[GypsyMoth]

You do have to push for help. Dd has just returned from a second night in the cells within 5 weeks.

Ss are only just beginning to think about helping. I had to ring every day but only got anywhere because of younger siblings in the home!!

[GypsyMoth]

yeah mary....she hit her sister. i called police for advice,but they were straight round and arrested her....she got a reprimand from the sergeant. we're ok. on eggshells,but ok.

[maddannafizz]

I am a mother of fifteen year old twins. I have just been pushed down the stairs and have had a heavy box thrown at my head. This is because I was trying to talk to them about stealing all my personal things . They steal from me all the time and refuse to answer for it. I am in Child and Family therapy, but they just say it is teenage behaviour and why do you think they want to steal from you. I dont see the point in telling them about the violence because they seem to give out unhelpful advice so far and obvious tatics that most mothers would have already tried.
I dont think there is an answer. I have tried to take away their phones to dicipline them, but that makes them violent, and I try to ground them, but they just leave the house whatever rule I put in place. I actually feel suicidal and have no energy for life. I am also ill with fibromyalgia. I am due a major operation soon and I am terrified of coming back from hospital to these two girls who do not seem like the lovely children I brought up. They are abusive and do not care about anything I have to say as they talk over the top of me. I know I shouldn't, but I find myself shouting to try and be heard.
Nothing works and I feel I have given them love and care for fifteen years, put myself behind their needs and to be abused for it. I feel very alone and feel I could not tell anybody.

[maddannafizz]

I wish their was a group for parents of violent teenagers so we could support each other.

[flow4]

GDBD, I'm sorry things are so bad. He does sound like he's really struggling, not just being a pita. I don't have anything to say that others haven't already said, really, except that the police may be useful rather than punitive. Of all the agencies I sought help from - school, ed psych, GP, CAMHS, children's charity, soc serv, youth service, drugs service, YOT - the police were most helpful. Yes, they'll deal with offending behaviour; but they also have a lot of experience of being called out to families where a teen is out of control and there is no-where else to turn. Given his age and background, they are v unlikely to arrest him unless you want them to, but will take control of a dangerous situation like the one you describe, and help keep you and your other children safe. And I would have thought that their involvement might help speed up or open up access to other support, if there is any.

maddanna, you sound really desperate. You won't get the support you need and deserve here on GoodDays thread... You could start your own new one, or come and join us here, where there are other parents living with violent teens. You definitely are not alone, and many people, including me, have experienced similar, and understand.

[Jifffy]

My nephew has a horrendous temper and she got him to a boxing gym twice week and the change in him is wonderful. He goes straight from school which means he get rid of all his anger and frustrations before he get home. We all go together and bought him his On my way! Punchbag for the garden so when he starts my sister kicks him out there and he takes it all out on the bag.
I'm not saying its dealt with it all but my sister reckons feels he is better by about 75% which is fantastic. She now has him seeing a shrink who works with the gym so hoping that also might help . It has taken about a year to get to this place but she thinks its been worth it.
So try getting him to a boxing gym and go from there good luck let me know how it goes

[cory]

Another point to consider re medication is that he will soon be 15, which opens up whole new possibilities when it comes to prescriptions.

But there is always some delay while they investigate so he needs to be in the system asap, so that as soon as his 15th birthday comes around CAHMS can say "well, we have already tried x, y and z and now feel convinced medication is the only remaining option".

The best way to get him seen asap is to keep stressing that pick-axe. I know you don't want to, but it is in his best interests to be helped before he really does something dreadful he didn't intend to. If he did lash out with a heavy tool, that wouldn't just be you seriously injured or perhaps even dead: it would also be his life ruined.

[Madamecastafiore]

You ring the police every time he does this. It would probably be your quickest route to get the help you need. Do not wait until he hurts you or himself, you are allowing this to escalate by not reacting now. That may sound harsh but it's like letting someone get away with bad behaviour, it will just get worse and worse.

The police can interact with CAMHS very successfully and hopefully get him assessed for admission into an inpatient unit to get him the multiple disciplinary help he needs.

Good luck.