Here some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on SN.

Anyone dealt with a deliberately obstructive school....?

(76 Posts)
Youarentkiddingme Wed 20-Jan-16 19:37:19

Who will go to every length possible to prevent you from having detail of what they are doing, how they are achieving and refuse to respond to emails and are down right insulting to you when you ask them a question that you can evidence?

How do you deal with it? It's making me feel like I'm going mad. It's making me both laugh and become stressed and on occasions angry because I know they are lying. (I have evidence).

It's making me feel like they are deliberately making things so difficult for me that they hope I'll go away and stop taking an interest in my child's education and expecting them to provide the Sen support they get funding for. (Not on EHCP)

I want more from mine and my DS life from contact checking of information, cross referring everything, fighting, phone calls and more importantly I want my MH back. sad

ouryve Wed 20-Jan-16 19:44:53

Have you thought of going down the EHCP route? Makes it actually enforcible.

I'd offer wine but I'm doing dry January.

Youarentkiddingme Wed 20-Jan-16 19:58:53

It's ok ouryve I don't drink. So well share a virtual bottle of wine!

I've been gathering evidence. The problem is that all the evidence I get - eg scores that are way below target and I ask questions like is he getting X support - they ignore me and have now taken all his data results off of his portal hmm

Also ipsea and support for send have both told me I have to prove the school has out in all interventions and they've failed and he needs more support or funding. Thing is school are doing nothing - they said there were and have now been caught out lying and the teacher they told me to contact directly hasn't-won't respond to my email asking what the expected score/level for a year 7 pupil in literacy is but rather the Sen lady emailed me suggesting she cuts DS ELSA time down by 20 minutes to provide the intervention they said they were all ready providing. angry

PolterGoose Wed 20-Jan-16 20:47:09

I wouldn't waste time trying to gather evidence at this stage, that's the point of the EHCP assessment process. Just apply with what you have, it's the fact he's a conundrum that makes the assessment necessary. Don't waste time, just do it flowers

PolterGoose Wed 20-Jan-16 20:48:27

<lifts jaw off floor at thought of ouryve doing dry January>

Youarentkiddingme Wed 20-Jan-16 20:54:51

It's so stupid that fear of being rejected again is what puts me off going for it.

I just need to pull up my big girl pants and go for it!

PolterGoose Wed 20-Jan-16 21:01:12

I think you are flowers

Youarentkiddingme Wed 20-Jan-16 21:08:02

I just wish it didn't always have to be a fucking fight.

New senco managed to meet DS needs in juniors without any hiding or ignoring me and even with everything she did she still believed he needed an EHCP. She said he was complex and he was hard to understand.

Now he's in a school that ignores emails and has actually uttered the immortal words "we have expertise in ASD and know exactly what DS needs and you have to trust us".

Yeah so expert that when they published his results which proved me and professionals right and I emailed to ask 2 questions they ignored the email and removed the data from his portal - fuckers grin

Right when woman from La contacts me I'll tell her I will be applying for EHCP and that I expect full co operation in assessing his needs as I have evidence that the school have lied (they know) and they are responsible for his education. I'll provide anything they ask for and make it clear I plan to appeal at every stage.

<hoicks up big girl pants>

Schrodingersmum Wed 20-Jan-16 21:23:07

We had a deliberately obstructive school, senco refused to help so we applied for an EHCP, senco lied to LA in the EHCP, LA declined to assess

Had a meeting with LA proved school lied (paper trail and documents) senco looked unprofessional

DD given full support by LA before EHCP and moved, sadly DS started at the same school in September and also has needs, Im getting a deja vu feeling

KeepOnKeepingOn1 Wed 20-Jan-16 21:40:44

Smile and nod. Apply for SA and then collect evidence - you will have plenty of time. Get an EHCP. Make the LA monitor delivery. Make sure that the school is on the LA radar and that the LA know the school is not doing what it should. DS2 is the only DC with a statement in the school (that says a lot about the school rather than DS2) and the school were unknown to the LA.

Then go to tribunal because the wording does not prevent deliberate obstruction, collecting evidence all the while. Then, finally, you are in a better position to JR and bring a case for disability discrimination that you have any hope of winning.

I am giving the school enough rope to hang themselves with and then when they put one foot wrong, will strike and probably fail yet again

My school lied about DS2s concentration and attention (it had been five minutes on a good day for the past 3 years) and claimed a miracle. The witness statement to tribunal dated September 2015 actually said he could maintain focus 'with the odd reminder'. But then, they slipped up and gave me a copy of referral to autism outreach in October 2015. The form helpfully asked for information about concentration and attention and the school had answered honestly (assuming I would never see it). Guess what, it was five minutes independent working with worse in whole class or small group.

Data Access request to the school and the LA usually uncovers lies. My school allows parents to view work books on a Friday after school. Photograph the pages with your phone to prevent the school from 'accidentally' losing the actual book or presenting a selection of 'best' work as if this is the norm.

Applying for SA and having your own experts do observations in school also helps you to deal with the lies (which are cruel because part of you wants to believe that things have magically got better) and in the absence of counter evidence it starts to wear you down and you do start to doubt your own knowledge.

Its best to know that its a fight and not expect anything else so that you can be prepared. flowers

ouryve Wed 20-Jan-16 23:57:29

Ahem!

I did dry June, too. It was merely a little damp, though.

I am looking forward to my wine club case, next month, so I haven't completely gone over to the sober side.

Youarentkiddingme Thu 21-Jan-16 06:46:03

Yes to the rope keep grin I did this hence why they've now been caught lying.

It seems like I've been doing to right. I've danced to schools tune and they even obstruct me doing this. It's got to pint now where they published information that proved me right and when I asked a question they removed it!

Ds has the la version of the non statutory my plan. It's not being followed and school are blaming me for it not being right. It's meant to be, as published, a document that "prevents students needing agency assessment and the stigma attached to that" yet school wants all agencies involved as won't accept his already well documented needs.

I've contacted la and waiting for Sen team to call me back. I've reported the lying so hopefully I'm on the right path to get them to support my EHCP.

It's interesting to see others have also successfully got an EHCP through schools being obstructive rather than proof of needs solely. Ds needs were met in juniors without the EHCP and that's why they refused to assess when juniors applied.

I can access all DS work because he uses a laptop - I've already printed evidence of his work and all emails so far. I think I'll have to cross reference them and show the inconsistencies to point them out eventually.

I was on phone to OT who is going into school to assess DS on Monday and her exact words to me were "does he have an assigned TA". Er no! He has nothing other than some small adjustments - he's just had to quit computer clung to get his ELSA support because they'll only do it after school.

KeepOnKeepingOn1 Thu 21-Jan-16 07:39:13

Oh God, not 'stigma' now. As a 'sociologist' the bastardisation of sociological terms and having the wrong interpretation parroted back at me by ignorant teaching staff drives me mad. Grrr!

It is not the fact that a plan has statutory weight that results in stigma. It is an excuse not to deliver support. The LA know the school will not deliver support but, that it is the LA, rather than the school, which will be held legally accountable - at least it would be if it issued an enforceable document! So they don't and then pretend that they don't want to 'stigmatise'.

Anyone with no morals can play this game. There is greater social and moral status attached to 'free-giving'. Free-giving strengthens the sense of community and belonging. Being a 'wage-slave' is stigmatising and concerned only with individual pursuit of material, rather than relational, gain. So, I propose that school staff are all volunteers rather than paid staff, for their own good, of course.

"In Erving Goffman's theory of social stigma, a stigma is an attribute, behavior, or reputation which is socially discrediting in a particular way: it causes an individual to be mentally classified by others in an undesirable, rejected stereotype rather than in an accepted, normal one. Social stigma is the extreme disapproval of (or discontent with) a person or group on socially characteristic grounds that are perceived, and serve to distinguish them, from other members of a society. Stigma may then be affixed to such a person, by the greater society, who differs from their cultural norms."

Same thing with labelling - it is an excuse not to deliver support. "Labelling theory is a theory in sociology which ascribes labelling of people to control and identification of deviant behavior. It is associated with the concepts of self-fulfilling prophecy and stereotyping. Labeling theory holds that deviance is not inherent to an act, but instead focuses on the tendency of majorities to negatively label minorities or those seen as deviant from standard cultural norms."

Don't even get me started on the misuse of the term 'inclusion'. angry

Youarentkiddingme Thu 21-Jan-16 08:00:07

Spot on keep the situation this is......

Ds has ASD and being assessed for dyspraxia and dysgraphia. (Has lots of symptoms if not enough for full dx)

Left juniors with Sen needs as ASD and SpLD.

Now just ASD (except he has a laptop - for what if no SpLD?)

Gets Sen funding. Has an IPA that the la can't and don't have jurisdiction over. It's the la who print the stigma form explanation. School do not have to honour IPA (hence they say they'll put on it what I think he needs but when I bring up concerns they call me anxious hmm - or the worst case was the bit of paper I showed senco was thrown back at me) school not required to document or show where the Sen funding he gets for being on register is going.

Ds doesn't cause a 'problem'. He's not violent (anymore!) and tends to just slide into the background and bimble along but that's not allowing him to meet his best possible outcomes as he's cognitively very able and yet behind in most subjects. They did publish the data results - now they are removed! Therefore school say he's fine. (DS target for subjects end of Aut was 29 pts. They are meant to make 4 pts progress per year. His literacy score was 18. Therefore he should meet year 7 target in year 10 - but he doesn't have spld)

Youarentkiddingme Thu 21-Jan-16 08:01:05

Can I use your sociology quote in my communication? Is it your quote or from a different source?

Youarentkiddingme Thu 21-Jan-16 08:03:50

Beggers belief really!

KeepOnKeepingOn1 Thu 21-Jan-16 09:25:35

I can feel my blood pressure rising just reading that document!

Exactly who has decided that assessment and paperwork is 'unnecessary'? I bet assessment is 'not in the best interests' of DC and makes them 'look different'. So, don't even bother asking for your child to be assessed and if you have them privately assessed this will be evidence that you don't care about the well-being of your DC. I wonder how LAs justify conducting lots of unnecessary assessment when preparing defence for Tribunal when suddenly it is seen as essential to conduct EP, SALT and OT assessment despite the fact that assessments have just been carried out by independent specialists?

The use of the words 'quality' and 'strengths' is designed to underline that the subjective view of the CT that DC are 'fine' is the strongest expert evidence available (with no pesky 'unnecessary' objective assessment indicating the opposite).

As all DC in the m/s can have their needs met (no matter how complex) by the Local Offer, there can logically be no needs for which there is not already provision.

Where is the evidence (academic research) that claims that having a statement is stigmatising or that statutory assessment is intimidating? Note the concern of the potential impact on older children? Of course, there are far more older DC as needs become more apparent and expectations increase as they progress through primary school. Plus there is the 'need' to document academic failure (5 years+ in DS1's old school) to be eligible for support.

The quotes are just bog-standard dictionary of sociology stuff.

ime with DS2 the school are happy to put anything in writing, especially if it is not legally enforceable. This does not mean that the provision will actually be delivered - DS2's statemented provision was not delivered and even when the LA wrote short-term targets the school would only actually deliver the provision on a couple of occasions rather than daily, throughout the day and then delete the target with no indication of any progress. I have been told that there is no longer any need for an IEP or any other document of short-term SMART targets, just a Provision Map with no measurement of progress.

DS2 has problems with writing and the OT had provided special paper and recommended 10-15 mins practice per day. The SENCO claimed this had been provided but was being stopped because DS1 did not like it. Lots of statemented provision has been abandoned and disappeared from the IEP (favour to me) because 'DS2 did not like it' (dictaphone, mini-computer, handwriting practice, prompt sheet, rewards, pencil case, wobble cushion, sloping desk etc). I asked for copies of the sheets (having already seen they were all blank) but was told that the school did not have any because they didn't know that I expected them to keep them. Logically that would mean that they had already binned or shredded the handwriting practice that DS2 had done that day!

A note of caution though - my recent experience of Tribunal was a shock as these were exactly the views expressed by the Judge and I was slapped down at every opportunity and even told by the judge that parental written comments were sufficient. Parents were only asked for verbal evidence at the end of the day after our legal rep had complained and even then the Judge would not allow me to speak but addressed her questions specifically to DH.

She describes the school as a 'model of inclusion' in her Ruling.

Still justifiably angry

Toffeelatteplease Thu 21-Jan-16 09:30:01

I think it c

blaeberry Thu 21-Jan-16 11:58:47

Youare that document is so bad it would almost be funny if it wasn't so serious shock. So so many holes in their arguments...

Youarentkiddingme Thu 21-Jan-16 16:43:55

keep I might have a massive slight MN crush on you right now.

If you could just keep typing a little more then o think my EHCP application and appeals and tribunal notes are already prepared in advance wink

I'm so so so glad that you can all see the holes in the system and that that added to a school who has subject teachers who apparently don't deal with 'targets set for their subject' hmm means I'm stuck in sound kind of complete wierd world

ouryve Thu 21-Jan-16 16:59:56

Is that published by your LA, youare?shock

Youarentkiddingme Thu 21-Jan-16 17:57:05

IT is ourybe that's what I'm fighting against. Ds has one of these IPA that isn't being used but can't be enforced by la either. And the document itself is a disgrace.

I'm actually going to use my allowed photos of the day to screen shot whole document for you all to read. It's actually making me feel better having shared outrage grin

PolterGoose Thu 21-Jan-16 17:57:57

Would it be easier to link it?

Youarentkiddingme Thu 21-Jan-16 18:03:48

First part. Then part I posted earlier followed by last parts and a subtle hint at la it is!!

Youarentkiddingme Thu 21-Jan-16 18:06:42

Haha polter yes, that would have probably made sense! I have it saved in iBooks so forget I originally got it off the t'internet!

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