Here some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on SN.

Can anyone tell me about SPD?

(45 Posts)
itfriesthebrain Sat 16-Feb-13 23:47:21

good evening. I have been lurking on here for some time and have found many posts very informative. Please could anyone tell me of any experiences of semantic pragmatic disorder?

zzzzz Sun 17-Feb-13 00:06:36

I think it's a very old fashioned diagnosis and would probably be either, language disorder or ASD now. In my mind it seems a good descriptor for the social communication problems faced by many with Aspergers.

My son is severely language disordered with normal to high IQ. SPD was muted by one EdPsych a few years ago but I think that probably underplays his issues quite significantly.

Sweetdelight Sun 17-Feb-13 00:16:43

Zzzz, A child can have semantic pragmatic language disorder a specific language impairment, a disorder language development, a receptive impairment language, or an expressive language impairment, an auditory language impairment, a phonological language impairment and so on. Yawn, for the record all children on the autistic continuum have a semantic pragmatic language disorder ie a communication disorder, regardless of cognitive ability.

zzzzz Sun 17-Feb-13 00:27:31

I'm not sure what your point is sweet? What I was trying to say is that I don't think SPD is dx'ed often now, certainly in my experience. I think an ASD dx or a language disorder, is much more common, so worth reading up on.

SPD is more likely to be used to describe a 'symptom' of a Dx, rather than be a Dx in itself.

Sweetdelight Sun 17-Feb-13 00:32:48

A language disorder is different from a language impairment and different again from a social communication disorder and one has to look at a child's cognitive ability. Your son can not be language disordered if it underplays his issues significantly, he must have an SLI. I suggest you get his language reassessed by SALT.

'A language disorder is different from a language impairment and different again from a social communication disorder'

Who says?

zzzzz Sun 17-Feb-13 00:40:57

Sweet I'm not sure I understand. What, as you understand it, is the difference between SLI and a language disorder?

My understanding is that a language disorder is an uneven profile, while an SLI is a specific deficit. I am not sure how the severity of the first would imply the second.

Ineedmorepatience Sun 17-Feb-13 10:17:10

Who are you sweetdelight have you name changed?

I am not familiar with you but am interested in why it makes such a difference?

If all dc's with Asd have spd then so does my Dd3 but it is one small part of her dx and some of her other issues overshadow the spd some of the time.

Ineedmorepatience Sun 17-Feb-13 10:21:02

Sorry OP, I meant to say that I think it is more common for children to be given an Asd diagnosis now.

Spd plainly plays a role in Asd but when Dd3 was assessed by SALT they set out her issues individually rather that calling it Spd, IYSWIM.

Good lucksmile

moondog Sun 17-Feb-13 10:26:13

Don't waste your time and energy worrying about whatever label is currently in vogue/used by the HPC/LEA bod you are seeing. It is all highly inaccurate in any case and will be supereceded in months. They are all used interchangeably and there is no standard way of describing issues which are idiosyncratic to each child in any case.

I would never use any label apart from talking very generally about a delay versus a disorder.
It's way more helpful to
a.) Get a clear jargon free description of what your child finds difficult (with copious examples)

b.) Have the person who is charged with helping you tell you in clear jargon free language what they are gonig to do about it and how they are going to measure if what they are doing is having an effect or not.

My own view is that bandying about clever sounding labels deflects attention from the fact that a.) and b.) are often sadly neglected.

zzzzz Sun 17-Feb-13 10:34:34

moondog thank you for that. I will mutter it to myself when they finish assessing ds (again).

Ineedmorepatience Sun 17-Feb-13 10:38:58

Thanks moon we got (a) but havent ever managed to get (b) hmm

Hey ho, at least we know what the issues are!

moondog Sun 17-Feb-13 10:42:58

Don;t allow your energy (or anynoe else's) to be deflected/sidetracked by discussing what you call it.
I could call my tip of a kitchen all sorts of things.
'overused food preparation station'
'vibrant heart of the home'
'gathering place for semi feral youth'

Doesn't change the fact that it's pretty dirty and needs a good clean.

Assessment.
That old chestnut
When in doubt, assess and then assess again.
Three months later, assess, review and monitor.
Assess again
Repeat ad infinitum.,
It means yuo never have any time left to remediate. hmm

zzzzz Sun 17-Feb-13 10:52:13

^Assessment.
That old chestnut
When in doubt, assess and then assess again.
Three months later, assess, review and monitor.
Assess again
Repeat ad infinitum.,
It means yuo never have any time left to remediate^

moondog I am crying. That is our life. How do I get out of this loop. We never get to doing anything. I do everything and I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I'M DOING.

Ds is nearly 8, home educated and massively language disordered, he's ASDish as well but that is SO minor compared to his language.

PolterGoose Sun 17-Feb-13 11:00:18

(((((zzzzz)))))

Take a deep breath, you do know what you are doing and you are making a significant difference thanks

moondog Sun 17-Feb-13 11:04:04

I'm sorry if I am sounding like the voice of doom and gloom Zzzz. I am utterly disillusioned with the ''all talk zero action'' SEN industry, full of people rustling papers, attending meetings and spouting jargon but doing little of substance.

Assessment is vital but a good assessment should then flow seamlessly into a coherent measurable paln of action.
Maths assessment leads to definable measurable curriculum
Language assessment leads to definable measurable curriculum

And so on.
It's not that difficult to do, that's the ultimate irony.
I've managed it for my own child and I truly believe that the vast number of my colleagues in the LEA and myself have manged it for most of the kdis we work with.
But it sure as hell isn't that way in most places.

zzzzz Sun 17-Feb-13 11:08:09

Thank you polt.

moondog it's not that you are the voice of doom, it's that you crystallise my own thoughts and I am cross and tired and a teeny bit desperate. OK is not good enough for my boy. He's starting off with a disadvantage, he NEEDS excellent focused intervention.

moondog Sun 17-Feb-13 11:10:39

Yes.
It is an enormous challenge to try and do it yourself (and I speak as someone who was home schooled by necessity due to geography but not disadvantaged by language problems)

What outside help do you have?

Zzzzz

This is how I see it.

Focused quality intervention is an entitlement but also an illusion. Fight to the death for it and you'll still probably not get it for him whilst those involved convince themselves he IS getting it with any failings being down to his in capability and/or parental interference.

That means that even if you make mistakes, get things wrong or aren't efficient, you are still his best interventionslist because you actually get on and DO it.

zzzzz Sun 17-Feb-13 11:27:49

No outside help. Have requested and am in the process of doing assessment of where he is now. Half way through CELF. SALT says definitely severe language disorder but need to see profile of that disorder.

Thank you star , yes an illusion. It's like running towards a mirage in the desert eh?

Must go as have promised the beach to ds for all his hard work at SALT this week and he is going to explode with frustration.

Beach in February hmm . One wonders who's in charge here.

PolterGoose Sun 17-Feb-13 11:34:14

Have fun grin

moondog Sun 17-Feb-13 11:38:17

Are you doing CELF yourself?!
I assume not but you do need some more input from outside I think.

Don't knock the beach in February.
You tend to get it all to yourself.
We've spent the last three days on the beach, building and digging and making fires.
Excellent fun. grin

inappropriatelyemployed Sun 17-Feb-13 11:41:05

Love the beach in February. Wish I was there.

Moondog, what you say about assessments is so true. Like meetings which are, of course, the antidote to everything!

moondog Sun 17-Feb-13 11:46:46

I have a friend who used to work for one of the big supermarkets. She told me all meetings took place standing and on the shop floor. That kept them focussed and brief. I would love to see some of that attitude in the NHS and LEA. I am aware of plenty of folk who believe that going to meetings is their job.

{hmm]

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