Interesting article about pointing and infant siblings of children with ASD.

[Lougle]

Beyond Pointing

[sickofsocalledexperts]

Very interesting that 'showing' toys etc to parents at 12 months or not reaching arms out to be picked up (as early as 9 months) can be as important indicators for autism as pointing. Also interested in he difference between protoimperative and protodeclarative pointing (pointing when you want something versus pointing to share attention - the latter being the more important one in early diagnosis). thanks Lougle.

[Lougle]

Yes, I thought it was very interesting, because we so often say in a categorical way, that 'not pointing is a red flag', but it just shows that the reasons for that are actually quite complicated. It might help some of us.

[sickofsocalledexperts]

I wish I could remember whether DS lifted his rms to be picked up, but the emorynis going due to my danced age!

[sickofsocalledexperts]

God, and the typing. Arms memory advanced!

[silverfrog]

Am

[silverfrog]

Grr phone

Am on phone so not read article but it sounds interesting.

Anecdotally, dd1 wAs also that model infant/toddler. No pestering for toys or attention, no toddler insistence at all. If she dropped a toy when a baby she would patiently wait for it to be brought back for her, but no reaching for it, or holding up arms for a cuddle etc - she must have been about 3 before she cuddled back rather than just leaning on us.

Whereas dd2 (not without her issues but clearly more NT) did all of the pointing/showing/reaching.

[Lougle]

"she must have been about 3 before she cuddled back rather than just leaning on us."

That's interesting. One of our observations about DD2 (5.3) (finally have paed appt for 2nd January, hooray!) is that when she 'gives' us a cuddle, it is generally just flopping her body on/against us and what we may or may not be doing has no bearing on her actions - I can be fully asleep, and she'll still flop on me, waking me up.

[used2bthin]

Thanks, interesting article. I also can't remember about DD1's gestures but she was a very easy going baby and people used to comment on how well she entertained herself. Certainly I can see she waseasier than DD2 is turning out to be so far (almost 6m) although that may be partly that dd2 is worried about what Dd1 will do if she is on the floor .

As a toddler DD1 would just disappear off if at a group or something and also was noticably relaxed about sharing compared to othersher age-if another child took a toy she would just get a different one, if a child pushed her she would laugh as if she didn't get the intention and thought it was a fun game.

The only thing though is that she did seem to develope language normally till just over a year then lost the words she had so I am not sure if that would be the same for gestures too as I think lots of children with ASD can regress. Its something that worries me a lot in relation to DD2 as I feel I can't ever assume she hasn't got ASD just because she is following typical development iyswim but she just somehow IS different to DD1 so I think I should.

[Crawling]

Thank you so muc for sharing this I was worried about Dc3 but looking at this it describes dc2 behaviour at a young age and dc3 has none of the indicator mentioned.

[MummytoMog]

That's very interesting indeed, and nicely answers my question about pointing from a couple of weeks ago. DD has started pointing in a protodeclarative way since then, but oddly will still not point to something she wants, but will take us to it instead and ask for it. Thinking back, I don't remember much showing, although DS does it all the time, but I remember a lot of arms up to be picked up and a lovely game (it was a pain in the bum) of dropping stuff and then waving until it was picked up. She waved goodbye, blew kisses, gave bear hugs and held our hands when tired or upset. She only gives me things to start a game as a rule, not to show me. DS will give me a ball and then take it back, to show it to me, but DD will only give me a ball to ask me to play with her. Very interested that there was such a large group of language delayed siblings as well. We are very on the fence about whether there is anything more to DDs odd behaviour than a language delay and a hearing loss, but DS is a bit delayed in speech as well at 20 months. He only just started saying Mummy, and his other words are essentially tools (banana, cuddle, cakey) and there aren't many of them. So good to know that there can be a genetic component as well.

[saintlyjimjams]

Hm interesting. DS1 used the arms raised so pick me up gesture normally, and at the usual time (and a lot - used to do it in his cot all the time). He was playing peekaboo then as well.

Which does rather provide more evidence for a regression rather than something that was there from birth, given the severity of his autism.

[ChristmasTreegles]

Our HV went on and on when DS2 was 3yo about how he still wasn't pointing at things, how it was a developmental milestone and blah blah blah until my eyes practically glazed over. Honestly - it would have been much more helpful if she'd said WHY she was concerned. So we asked her what we should do (and why it was a concern)... she said "I'm sure he's fine - you're doing the best you can." Just lovely. Not ONCE did she mention SNs or ASD or further assessment. We went in to GP and got fobbed off yet again with "all children develop at a different rate. boys develop slower... give it time."

Lots of info... lots of concern from us... but it got us exactly nowhere.

[mymatemax]

ds2 didnt point, gesture, raise arms to be picked up, pick up toys.
He would just lay there and let the world go on around him, he was dx'd GDD at the time due to his very prem birth & the "wait & see" approach to be able to seperate his physical delays from the rest.
I dont think the wait & see in ds2's case made any difference as he was already in the system IYKWIM but it all makes more sense looking back.