At 8 weeks I used to have dd lying next to me in our big bed while I fed baby (didn't really put him down for evenings though - occasionally). Was ok - though getting to that point (milk, pyjamas, bath, teeth) sometimes a flash point. Used a ring sling too - was amazing.

Now like Jojay, my toddler sits in front of iplayer while I feed 11mth ds to sleep upstairs. Mostly works. Yes, my ds has prob been left to cry more than dd (always responded to within 10secs ) - and he is way smilier, but also way whingier than dd ever was (wails in buggy/car/if he doesn't get what he wants). Does my head in and I do have angsty moments that it's due to me not responding to him as I did dd... but am sure it's fine in the grand scheme of things, and just due to different children...

By the way, of course it;s hard. You are learning all about your tiny baby and how he fits in to your routine. It does get easier with practise, honest. Congrats on your baby!!

Pretty much same as Jojay here - i put them both in the bath together (ds 2.5 and dd 17 weeks) then get dd into pj's while ds is playing, leave her on the bed for a minute while i get ds dry and into pj's then we go downstairs, ds chooses a film to watch, they both have milk (I'm tandem nursing) and then i take dd upstairs, put her to bed, come downstairs, have a half an hour playing with ds then put him to bed.

And to think, I was never going to have tv before bedtime! Also, when dd was 3 weeks old and ds was just 2, i read something on here which helped a lot - "It doesn't hurt them to exercise their lungs for 5 minutes," so while it isn't very pleasant to hear them getting stressed out and unhappy, it won't kill them and you shouldn't feel bad about it. With ds i was horrendously PFB and was convinced that if he was left to cry he'd be brain damaged forever - dd has to wait a little bit sometimes and is a much more contented, happy little soul than ds ever was. Whether the two are connected I wouldn't like to say, but things do get easier when the baby's past that awful first 12 weeks and you get your head sorted. You sound like you're doing a great job!

I plonk my toddler in front of whatever his current favourite V programme is, while I put DS2 to bed.

If Ds1 won't stay put I give him a bowl of grapes or crisps to eat but tell him he can only have them if he sits on the sofa.

Get a sling. Something like a pouch/ring sling in a cool fabric. Stick DS in it, latch him on and deal with your dd whilst he gets on with it.

The alternative is to deal with you DD first. The baby can wait.

Thanks everyone, I feel a lot better for knowing that other people find it hard too! Was quite prepared for a bit of 'well, haven't you tried to get them both in a routine by now'. Will try out your ideas whilst muttering 'this too will pass'... I love them both dearly and it kills me when they are all stressed out and miserable.

Don't feel bad about using a sitter to help, or about struggling with this, it can be hard!

Best advice I can offer is to use the sitter to look after the baby and concentrate on getting DD into a really solid routine. Once she's used to it, pay the sitter to be on hand while you get used to helping DD through the new routine with the baby, that way you can hand the baby over to sitter if it's all falling apart until you're comfortable with how it's going.

When all else fails just repeat "this too will come to pass" until you believe it...

I remember one night running from one room to the other, the toddler and baby taking turns to have a screaming bout without me as I desperately tried to give DD the chance to fall asleep without screaming baby to distract her. I did it all - feeding while sitting on the bathroom floor, on DD's bed. It is just hard work.

Some days I'd wait til DH came home - even if it was past 9pm - to put DD to bed. And I've just remembered putting a DVD for her to watch in the hope she'd drop off. a neighbour sounds like a more reasonable option!

Now they are 3 and 1 they sleep in the same room, same bedtime routine and all is calm. DD still likes someone to sit with her til she falls asleep, but to be honest once I've put DS down 100 times (when he stands up in the cot)DD has already gone to sleep - she's better at falling asleep for it, strangely enough.

This too will pass....

i have a 33mo and a 14wo. DH works shifts so every other week i have to do bedtime by myself.

I found i had to alter DS's bedtime routine to achieve sleep for both of them in the evening.

DD gets fed anytime between 7 and 9 and put in her rocker and got to sleep first so i can leave her there.

Then once we've done that by about 7.45 i then start with DS, he comes and sits with me and we read a book together downstairs, then he's changed into his pj's and given some down time on my lap with a cuddle and maybe another book or a quiet toy.. if DD stirs then i just rock her back to sleep while DS is sat with me.

He's taken up to bed about 8.30, then i can come down and deal with DD, either with a feed or with getting back to sleep.

I really think, for now, you need to alter DDs routine while the baby is so demanding, it'll be easier on all of you.

I was wondering why it was so difficult to get children to sleep in attic rooms as opposed to other rooms in the house when I first read the title [can't spell eaves]

Neighbour's daughter sounds great idea while DH is away, definitely keep going with her! I hope she likes heights.

JackBauer, you are not allowed to wear a wetsuit when swimming the channel.

So, even easier then!