Well...[I am whispering very quietly]...DS is now sleeping past 6am! Not every morning but more than not. I think it's just down to the fact that at 5am it's now pretty dark. The only other changes are that I dropped the morning BF and the cat doesn't have the run of the house at night now! (We think he might have been making the problem worse by dashing upstairs and miaowing at the slightest whimper from DS!) He still has a moring nap (DS not the cat) and then another after lunch and bedtime is usually between 7.30 and 8.

Has the darker mornings had a good effect for anyone else?

[Of course I will have jinxed things horribly now...]

2 x 5am here. Anyone doing better? After a raucous wedding too - killer.

Hello Ladies
I am so glad to have found this thread. Ds is 9 months old today and for 5.5 months I thought that I was the only one with a baby who thinks that 4am is a perfectly reasonable time to start the day. This is made worse by the fact that ds (AKA Captain Insomnia - he looks like a superhero when he pulls his bib round to the back!) will only nap for 30 minutes at a time during the day.

Earlier this week I thought I was onto something when I swapped his dinner of veggies for porridge. For 2 nights in a row he slept to 4:45 and 5:00. Alas, this did not last.

This morning he woke up at 1:30, 2:30 and 3:00. I finally gave in and got him out of his cot at 3:30. I turned all the lights down so I could only barely make out what I was doing and gave him his bottle, but this boy just will not sleep.

I spoke to my mum this morning. She said that my brother was the same and did not sleep properly until he was 4 years old.

I feel for you all

hello - look at me up LATE!

Just decided to drop from four days to three at work. Was about to go loopy.

Ds still at 5am bunny but sometimes will go back to bed with a bottle for an hour.

13lucky and melmog, my tip is earplugs. I know it sounds V bad but I just couldn't cope with the broken sleep. Ds would cry in the night but might not wake up. I used to leap out of bed and wake him up and prolong it. If I had earplugs in then he would have to cry until he woke DH, who would then wake me. I'd go in and sort ds out. We all slept much better.

We tried wake-to-sleep but it didn't work. Ds would either wake up at 4am or wake up at the normal time. But lots of people I know used it successfully.

Am rambling - had a large glass of wine as it's my birthday toms!

for you melmog and 13lucky. We are pretty much the same, sometimes okay then snaps back to rubbish. The only difference is I'm back at work three days and I'm like something out of a zombie flick.

melmog - I don't know what to suggest other than the usuals - later to bed, earlier to bed, cutting out/down on daytime sleep, the terrifying wake-to-sleep technique. 3.30 is very early - what time does she go back down for a nap then?

13lucky - could it be teeth, do you think? Or separation anxiety?

God, I wish someone had all the answers for us...

Sorry, that sounds awful too 13lucky. Is he screaming in his sleep do you think? My dd1 used to do that and if we went in we always prolonged the agony. I used to stand outside her door and she'd go for about 3/4 mins then stop and like you say, would be all smiles in the morning.

Strange little beings they are!!

Well, I went on the baby sleep answers forum in desperation as we're still pretty crap here too. I can't figure it out as dd was a brilliant sleeper (still is) and I haven't done anything differently with ds. Clearly, they are all made different.

The problem we now have is that ds wakes up at least once or twice a night, screaming - so instead of early mornings we've now got totally disturbed nights. The advice seemed to be to leave him for a few mins when he first wakes, then go to him and say ssshhh, night night etc and leave the room (minimum fuss, don't get him out of bed). Well, I've tried it for a couple of weeks and he goes nuts every time I leave the room but to be fair, does then calm down after a couple of mins...but it is agony listening to him...I hate it. But in the morning, he is all smiles and a truely delightful baby all day...I too am at a loss and deeply sympathise melmog.

Well.

I've been away for a bit what with one thing and another.

Still all crap here! Back to half four wakings after having to pander to dd2's every whim on holiday and this morning and yesterday had half three wakings to contend with. Bloody rubbish. We are at our wit's end and are willing to try any advice anyone may have? Was thinking of starting a new thread about it.

The biggest problem is she is such a gorgeous smiley bundle of lovelyness normally that I just can't leave her to scream. And she does scream. This morning she made herself sick I'm sure. As soon as I go in, she calms down, hiccups a bit and gives me the biggest cuddle.

My plan and how we cracked it before, was dh going in instead of me, but he's so knackered and has to work full time that it's not fair on him. It's just if she sees me, she won't let me leave again til she's asleep and I have a bad back so can't stand and rock her. Once I've taken her downstairs to to sofa so I can sit down that's it, she's up for the day.

Reading this back, I can see I've created the problem, but please help me sort it!!!

Brill, thanks Arti. Potatoes, pasta and polenta for dinner it is then!

Hi feral, it's been a bit quiet on here. I suspect we've all given up! (although my DS has pulled some 6am's recently, which is luxury!)

If the problem is the poo, it might be worth looking at what he's eating. I had a similar problem when first weaning and apparently it can be caused by an imbalance of fruit/veg late in the day (<whispers> this is a GF tip!) I stopped giving him too much fruit/veg for supper and introduced more carbohydrate instead and it solved the problem (but ours was a 3am poo ).

Of course, it could be that he wakes up and then decides to do a poo, in which case it might not work and you might be stuck here with us... Alas, I think some of them just go through this phase when they start sleeping through - exacerbated by early mornings.

Hi all. I'm kind of moonlighting from the 6 month thread because DS (8.5 months) is getting much better during the night but the pay-off is 4.30 - 5.30 starts; is that sufficiently early to join you here?

Sorry for tmi but the problem is that he religiously does a massive poo at the crack of dawn so not only do I get a hideously early wake up, the first thing I have to deal with is the bog of eternal stench in DS's nappy

I'm guessing there's nothing I can do about it, it's just a phase, etc etc. But <<desperately clutching at straws>> has anyone had the same? Is there a solution? Thanks.

Sorry not been on for a while - mainly as I'd just be permanently moaning and no fun for anyone!!!! Things here are no better - in fact worse!!! Ds now waking in the night all the time as well as early waking so all a bit sh*t!!! Last night he woke 12.30am, 2.30am, 3.30am but resettled himself each time - then he woke 4.30am and 5.30am when I put the music on remotely on his monitor and he went quiet until 6.45am so I suppose that's not an early morning...but bearing in mind he'd woken me up 5 times before 6.45am, it seemed like I hadn't slept at all!!!!! Thinking it might be teeth but god knows how many months I've been saying that for...

I'm like you arti - am sure he needs to give up the morning nap but how would he make it through till after lunch if he's waking up at 5 something...it's a vicious circle, isn't it??

Right need to go to bed to get a headstart...good luck everyone.

Hi! A mixed bag here. Teeth bothering him on and off but nothing through yet. Yesterday had his first full day with the CM and he napped really well there (phew!) and then slept from 7pm until almost 6am . She must have tired him out! Think I might have to go back to work f/t and she can have him at weekends too...

I think he would drop his morning nap easily if he could sleep past 6.30 - but it's getting to that point. At the moment, it's a vicious circle. Ah well, only six-ish weeks until the autumn equinox when everything will change...honestly...

hello arti!

well, I have mananged to get ds back off to sleep / quiet in his room twice this week after waking at 5am. I change his nappy and give him a small bottle of milk then leg it back to bed and shut the door. He's gone till 5.45 / 6.20am. So bearable.

I think this now works as my assertion that 'It's not morning' is now backed up by the fact it's dark at 5am - YAY! Before he just thought I was mad. Plus the bunnyclock backs me up.

Also on Sunday he slept till 7am (afer waking up a few times in the night ). That day he didn't have a day time nap. So just need to lose the nap.

How about you Arti- any signs of the troublesome teeth?

Haha, no breakthroughs here - although for a few days he dropped his morning nap and was sleeping until nearly 6. But too many teeth about at the moment so 5.10 this morning.

I now think I may get a lie-in when a) he has all his teeth; b) drops the morning nap for good; and c) it's the dead of winter. So looks like January 2011 then!

How is it for you OrangeKnickers?

Hello hashmi!

hello hashmi, you must be exhausted!

How is everyone? I hope the teeth are through / less painful and we've had some good mornings.

i thought i was alone my little one awake during the night 2 - 3 times and then upo at 5:30 on the dot, and thats it for the day, well unless you count 20min cat naps here and there

hello all, sorry indeed to hear your tales of woe. We have had a few night time wakings plus, 5am. One morning after I attempted to have a life and go out with work he woke up at FOUR THIRTY AM. I went to bed at 12 and was not impressed. I got him back in bed, rubbed his back and thought he'd gone off but suddenly 'PING' the eyes are open, he gets up, rolls out of bed and runs into the living roon and jumps on the sofa. DEMON CHILD.

Luckily I did 4.30-5.15 then DH took over. It was my day off so we both had a nap at 1-3. Bliss.

But how do I shift the nap to the evening? Ds is now 2.

Long and self absorbed. Sorry.

Arti, Iwish 13lucky - I feel your pain.

I've only got one and I go to bed at 8.30pm to cope. It does make me feel like a) a failure and b) how will I cope with another?

To those going back to work, yes work is easier than being home with a toddler. Once they get a bit older and start properly talking then it's nice too being at home (if you get a nap obv!).

Have a good weekend all. Here's to sunny days and 6am.

Oh dear, not good for any of us then.

Definitely teeth. The day got worse, culminating in me having to go and pick him up from CMs as he wouldn't nap and so got worked up into an over-tired/toothy-pain lather. Cue me feeling like just about the worst mummy ever.

He has slept a grand total of 45 minutes since 6.35am and so has gone to bed a)early; b)over-tired; and c)in pain. Don't think I need Mystic Meg to tell me that tomorrow morning isn't going to be pretty...

Sending better luck to the rest of you.

We had a record bad one too. He woke every half an hour between 10.30pm and 12.30am but I put the music on on the monitor as soon as I heard him and he resettled. But then woke at 3am screaming and screaming and needed re-settling. Then he slept 4am till 6am. Aaaggghhhhhhh!!!

There was something in the air: 4.35am this morning for us. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

for you artifarti. I guess if you're giving calpol this could be a bit of a teething/sickness blip?

good plan re: going back to bed, I was just relieved I wasn't working yesterday so I could nap at lunchtime.

A record morning here. But before you get all it was record BAD. Awake crying at 4.18 (earliest ever for us) and after much cuddles, Calpol and 45 minutes of comfort feeding (from a boy who can barely be bothered to feed twice a day for 10 mins usually) back to sleep at 5.55. Then awake again at 6.35. Couldn't help thinking of all the babies that wouldn't even be awake for the first time, let alone the second. Sigh.

Still, at least he is settling in at the CMs this morning so I can go back to bed for an hour...

Thanks melmog. My mum is great..I love her to bits. I'll be fine too - I've just had a quick power nap but am really supposed to be working today! I'm going to head over and pick the children up now but mum is having them again on Saturday night so at least I know I've got that to look forward to! I'm holding out for the fact that maybe he's waking up more becasue of teething and if that is the case, then hopefully one day it'll improve!! I have to hold on to some hope...! Thanks for the support. x

Oh, 13 lucky. You're definately not on your own. There's a reason why they used to use sleep deprivation as a form of torture.

Your Mum sounds like a star. Do you think she'd manage another night? Maybe if you had a couple of unbroken nights it'd help?

Hi guys, not been on for a few days but things here are pretty rubbish and I ended up bursting into tears at the doctors yesterday (he probably thinks I'm a complete loon!). I just need some sleep really and I find it blo*dy hard when my 3-year old (who sleeps brilliantly) is raring to go all day long (and no pre-school because of the holidays!). The thing is ds is such a super star in the daytime but the nights are getting me down! My mum had them last night for me because she's a star but I'm already dreading tonight!!! It's nice (but not for you guys) to know it's not just me! I do think ds is teething but then again, I've been saying that for months! We've had some really bad nights this last week. Not just the usual early waking, but more wakings in the night and then I've been eventually giving in after an hour or longer and giving him milk which settles him but I don't want him to get in this habit. Sorry for the rant...just needed to get it out! x

Just saw this advice on another thread:

"I recruited the help of a sleep consultant in the end and she gave similar advice except that she said if they wake after 5 but before 6, then you shouldn't go in because after 10 hours in bed, if they see a parent they assume it's morning. So she said to just leave until going to get the baby at 6am if he's been crying, otherwise wake him at 6.30am after 11.5 hours sleep. And then go in and say "good morning, good boy etc" and draw the curtains.

So we had about 1 morning of on and off crying for the hour. 2 mornings of the odd grizzle and now occasionally I can hear him shuffling around the cot from about 5.45 but he seems to be happy. And he's still happy and content in the daytime. So my DS responded quickly but I think it can take longer than 3 mornings."

3 MORNINGS?! I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR OVER THREE MONTHS HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The thing with DS is that, unless, he's teething, he's not crying, he's quite happy and raring to go.

MrsJamin, I'm for you.

The weather and everything being shut for the school hllidays just makes it worse.

I know what you mean, at 6am I was very grumpy as I'd been up nearly 2 hours and both dds were crying and horrid through tiredness. We're in for a long, boring day too. A car jouney wouyld send them both off but I'm too tired to go anywhere nice. Can't face a grotty car park in the rain!

It will end.

When they are teenagers we will be fed up that they won't get up in the morning! Bring it on.

MrsJamin - that is rubbish, poor you. And these rainy days without playgroups are a trial, aren't they? 14 hours of housebound baby/toddler stretching before us. Sigh.

Iwish - he would nap all morning if I let him but I let him have 30-45 minutes, usually between 9 and 10. Then after lunch anything from 1-2.5 hours. As usual, with my DS, no pattern.

sorry, melmog, didn't answer your question. No, she can't remember! (just 'ages!). BUT it DID stop at some point, and the good news is that I never had any problems sleeping / going to sleep as a toddler, I just sort of had it cracked. I'm crossing my fingers my boy will be the same!

Will be sending you strength and energy mrsjamin, and am just in the process of making a HUGE pot of coffee! Oh bugger melmog, you were a gleaming beacon of hope for a while there...

I've come to the same conclusion arti! At the moment naps are one hour in the morning (8-til-9 if up at 5am) and one hour after lunch (usually 1-2pm ish). What about your lovely boy?

3.30 difficult not to get angry and into despair about this- it's been nearly 7 months without sleeping til 7. I even gave him a whole banana at 5.15 in the hope that it was just hunger keeping him awake. bleurgh. here rolls on the rainy tired and tantrummy day...

Hello all

Not sure we're much of a success story! Iwish - I'm sure our boys are long-lost twins! 4.55 here this morning too! He always stirs at that time and at the moment he's teething so it's 50:50 as to whether he goes back until 5.45 or not. How does your DS nap during the day? I'm back to work the week after next and so I will report back...

melmog - oh poo, I thought you'd cracked it...

Spoken to two more friends this week who are also seeing the wrong side of 6am every morning, which gives me small comfort.

[Oh my goodness there's a man in his pants watering the plants next door...distracted...]

Morning Iwish.

Can your Mum remember how long this phase lasted?

Just as I thought, it didn't last! Back to 04.15 here today.

I was kind of expecting it though as she was grizzly all day yesterday and she has more teeth coming through.

It's payback for starting to relax!

Morning ladies! Wonderful news on any success stories. None here I'm afraid. We've had one 6am! But many, many more 5ams, this morning 4.55. Just when I think I see some kind of logic to it he just defies me! Ho hum.

I'm going back to work p/t in September artifarti. Ds will be going to nursery 3 afternoons a week. I'm hoping it will be so exhausting he'll decide to add another 30mins to his night sleep. It's got to change sometime, hasn't it? For what it's worth, I apparently was exactly the same - up at 5am for ages once I'd started sleeping through (my mum can't be more specific unfortunately). Then I stopped...nothing she did!

13lucky mine are just 3 and 16 months. The little one has been the problematic one, waking between 4 and 5 for ages. The only thing it may have been was her molars coming through. I may be wrong though and I'm sure it won't last.

Whenever we've been through stages like this we've given in and given milk, assuming it's a growth spurt and they're hungry. Or calpol if they're teething.

I know it's a terrible habit to get into but if it saves your sanity and gives you an extra hour or so it's worth it.

It won't last for ever though, I'm sure.

That's what I worry about MrsJamin. We had 4.15am this morning and after an hour of going in, resettling, etc etc, he was so distraught that I gave in and gave him a bottle at 5.15am...but I really don't want to be getting back into that habit.

His room was also pitch black so I've no hope of it improving when the mornings aren't light...I don't think that makes one jot of difference to my ds!

Well done to melmog and artifarti...melmog, how old is your dd? Just wondering if I can hold out some hope for mine (but he's nearly 10 months)...

Hello!!!

I've been quiet for a bit on here as I didn't want to tempt fate. We've been having after 6 o clock starts consistently for a week now! The record is 6.45. I don't know what to tell you, we changed nothing!!

Maybe it's just down to the shite weather?

I'm just enjoying it and assuming it won't last.

Good luck on starting back at work! I'm off to try and get a weekend or evening job to pay for our holiday. Feel like a teenager!

Hello everyone? How's it going with the dawn-calls? Better, I hope, from the thread silence. Any 6am milestones? Any 7am miracles?! Bedtime is a bit later here and we are often making it to 5.45 but also teething and so some 5am-and-screaming nasties, as this morning. It was actually quite dark when I got up which made me think how hard it will be if this continues into winter...

I am back to work p/t in a fortnight and DS is settling brilliantly at his CM. Although a big part of me is sad, another bit of me thinks it will be easier going to work than 14.5 hour days with a nearly-toddler!

Not been on this thread for a while. things aren't really getting any better but I'm hopeful with the dark mornings looming. 4.11am this morning, the worst in quite a while. I'm tempted to just give him something to eat at that time, as I think once he's been awake for a little while he just wants milk/breakfast. But am I making a rod for my own back by giving food in the night?!

Unfortunately not Oragngeknickers!!! 4am this morning but resettled after a nappy change and then slept in until 7am (obviously that bit is good...but not the 4am bit!!). Had to have quite a few strong coffees this morning...

artifarti - thank you for your kind post. I do hope you are right and am already looking forward to the house in Greece! That really cheered me up, thanks.

Good luck with the return to work. When you get enough sleep then it's great to have the opportunity to work and spend time with LOs. I found the work bit easier than toddler taming! And hot tea without interruptions. Bliss. If you want any info then I am happy to go on and on about it!

tiredhappymummy - I am impressed by your name. I am tiredmainlycrossmummy.

We have had a 5.20 and a 5.30am after I reset the bunny clock to 5am so he could get more stickers. So maybe it's working again. We have given up on the chart and just do two stickers on the back of the hands with a lot of fuss. It's amazing the difference between 5am and 5.30am.

Hope the silence on the thread is everyone's LO's ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzing!

Wow reading this makes me feel so much better as I am not alone! My 20 month old daughter wakes anywhere between 4.15 and 5.15am every day... I have got used to it now and can function fine on a 5.15 start as long as I am in bed by 10pm... I have resolved myself to the fact that nothing we do makes any difference to what time she wakes so we just try and get through it. I am praying that the dark mornings will put an end to this!! I dream of waking up at 7am at weekends!!

OrangeKnickers - I return to work (p/t) in three weeks and apart from all the obvious hand-wringing doubts and concerns, I am thinking 'how will I get through the day without a doze at 2pm?!' But I think whether you're at work or chasing round after a toddler at home, it's bloody knackering. It was 5.30 this morning which isn't toooo bad but I woke up in a foul mood, a real 'it's not fair, why me, everyone else's babies sleep for 13 hours' mood.

I feel for you also as my DS is still a baby (just!) so is supposed to be crap at sleep - it must be doubly annoying/frustrating when they suddenly start doing it after a period of relative good sleep. This too shall pass...

You should try and plan things though - weekends or whatever - as it gets even more depressing when life is totally restricted due to sleep (I know this as DP and I are constantly having to remind ourselves of this)

Positive thoughts: it will end! Also, I read something spurious that said early waking particularly affected clever boys and so at least our DS's will grow up to be very important and mine will probably buy me a holiday home in Greece.

sleep clock - we got a 'Kidsleep bunny clock' for ds about two months ago. We couldn't get an argos one.

here

It worked for two weeks, with a sticker chart. We thought we'd cracked it - then ds got bored. On the packaging it says from 30months.......

Thank you to those who said they find it hard too. It's just bloody hard. All I want to do is read mn, not do any work! Mind you that would prob be the case however much sleep I had.

melmog - your weekend sounds awfully tiring! I used to love going away but now I just know ds won't sleep very well and I dread it.

Positive thoughts needed!

Ok, I think I got it from Argos but have seen it in other places too. I guess it's worth a try and if it works, great. If not, bad luck!! It worked for my dd but like a previous person said, it's not a great design as to be able to see whether it's Igglepiggle on (sleep time) or Upsy Daisy (time you're allowed out of bed), you need to keep the night light on...I thought this might be a problem but I tried it and my dd loves the idea. Also the mechanism is noisy when it changes from night to day so even if your lo was still asleep at 7am (as if!!!), it would probably wake them up. Also, it's a 12-hour clock so you can't set it to go off more than 12 hours later (if you see what I mean)...although sometimes I sneak back in her room and re-set it when she's asleep!!!! Having said all those negatives about the clock, I LOVE it for my 3 year old as she understands about it and knows she's not allowed out of bed until the clock changes. Fab.

So, I've just got 2 more years until my ds will understand about a clock like that...! 4.50am again this morning...although he did go back to sleep 20 mins or so later so not tooooooooooooooooo bad!

Morning all!

I'm back from a weekend away, thinking I'd be telling you all how the sleepover had cracked it.

I'm not

Dd2 seems to have either flu or earache or something and has been up and down all weekend.

Dd1 decided she didn't want to sleep as there was too much excitement going on.

So.
Friday morning up at 6am, great.
Saturday morning up at 5am, not great.
Sunday morning, up at 3.30am, awful!

Back home and back to 5.30 for dd1 on the one morning that dd2 was going to sleep in. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Going to get me one of those clocks.

Pavlov you have my sympathies! My 3.5 yo has changed from 6.30/7ish to 5/6 and I can see no end in sight!

We tried one of the those clocks - feckin hard to get it set at the right time and when I did get it righ she decided she was scared of the green glow light. Then once I figured out how to keep that off it didn't work anyway - she figured out how to change it better than I did

Now we have fairy lights on a timer and she knows that she shouldn't shout on mum until the fairy lights are on but she just shouts 'mum the fairies aren't awake yet' gggrrrrrr

I think I am going to start leaving out something for her to eat and drink to see if that will keep her in her room longer.

YAWN

I have heard of those before and forgot all about them! Do you know what DH has just said 'find out where the bloody hell you buy it, and buy it, right now' .

She is just 3, literally 2 weeks ago, so old enough to understand what it means. She might even like it.

So, where did you buy yours? And do they do others and she is off of ITNG!

Hi PavlovtheForgetfulCa - I feel for you. How old is your toddler? When my dd started early waking (I thought it was early before I encountered my ds!!!), I bought her a training clock which face changes when it was time that she was allowed out of bed (her one is a nightgarden one with Igglepiggle sleeping - then, when it's 7am, it changes to Upsy Daisy and she is allowed to get out of bed). I didn't think this would work but I explained it to her and to my utter amazement, she stays in bed every morning until the clock changes (even though sometimes I can hear her singing for about an hour or so beforehand. I didn't introduce this though until she was 2 and a half so might be that your little one is too young yet...just an idea though.

Sorry about the sickness - I also suffered badly with my ds and it's so hard with a toddler running around.

<waves weakly>

I am joining you if I may, albeit temporarily, I hope.

Gone from a lovely 6:30am/7am type of toddler to just shy of 6am, then 5:30, 5:15, and today 4am.

And to top it off she has decided tonight not to go to bed either until late. so last night she slept 8:15pm to 4am, until 5:30am or so, slept until 7:15am latest, and now finally asleep at 9pm. I have no idea what is going on. All I know is she must be exhausted. I know I am.

Add to this, my continued, although subsided hyperemesis, the builders here every day making lots of noise and general inability to catch up on my sleep. I have had enough.

Not much response on my other thread, and reduce the risk of some sarcy comment demonstrating my sleep deprived paranoia I am posting here.

I'm the same as you artifarti and Orangeknickers and I don't care if anyone calls me a wuss...it's blo*dy hard work starting your day at 5am (if not earlier)...EVERY day.

We had 4.45am yesterday and 4.55am today. My first words this morning were 'Im FED up with this'! He manages to amuse himself for half an hour but that's it and the beginning of another day. It wouldn't be SO bad if I didn't also have a non-stop 3 year old (oh, and a smug sister-in-law whose 3 WEEK old baby seems to sleep better than my ds (apparently)....I must have been really bad in a previous life...!

Sweet dreams to all you and your little ones tonight.

OrangeKnickers - I go through phases where I seem to be able to get on with it and not mind so much. And other phases where it really wears me down and I get very fed up (and start a thread to whine about it!) I don't care if I'm a wuss!

I was talking to another friend with two DCs yesterday and both of his have been through this phase and come out of the other side. We will get there!

2 x 5am here. At the weekend!

Does anyone else think it just makes life so hard. Or am I just a wuss?

Back with you ladies.

Teeth.

5.10.

Arse.

Oh, I just missed you turtle! We were awake from 1.45 until 3.15, not quite sure why but think maybe more teeth on their way. Wake up at 6.10 though, so I'm going to get kicked off my own thread if I'm not careful.

Madigan - have you tried lavender oil? I find that a few drops on my pillow helps me to sleep if I'm having problems.

[puts fresh pot of coffee on]

I put the coffee on for you all at 130 but no one was here.
I woke at 130. DS slept til 515 then I cuddles him back to sleep til 615. This was due to him not going to sleep til 9 from screaming teething pain. Am I actually here? Feel like I am somewhere else....

I think you might be right. I have never been a big sleeper and, like you, was always up early even at uni when everyone else slept until midday. I don't even mind getting up at 6am that much (before = poo, though!) and seven hours sleep does me fine.

DP, on the other hand, needs a good eight hours+ to be human. DS has been a big shock to his system . I'm hoping if I'm ever foolish enough to have another, they will take after Daddy this time...

Yawn. Bed-time. Sweet, late mornings to you all. Whoever's up first - put the coffee on, there's a love.

my latest theory is that DS is just an early riser, perhaps genetically - I have never been one to sleep in, as a student I was the only one to be there at 8am for breakfast! My parents are also early risers even now they're retired, they get up for a 7.30am breakfast as they've always done. It's like you're aware of light even before you open your eyes and your stomach starts rumbling for breakfast and your mind kicks in to all the things you could be doing rather than lying in bed (of course that's pre-children days!!) I think DS has just inherited this from me. Who else is the same?

thank you for the replies. My ds looks tired too, and I keep on saying 'You are tired, you need to stay in bed longer!' but to no avail.

As Mrsjamin said, it's SO annoying.

But maybe it means that when it gets darker then he will sleep later? [hopeful emoticon]

If DS is up pre-5.15, he's ratty and shattered. Anytime after that is fair game to him though and he'll quite happily go 3.5 hours until he wants a nap.

5.50 this morning. Monitor successfully hidden at back of wardrobe to avoid murmurings. Unfortunately was let down by DS1 (ginger, furry, smelly) who broke down my door barricade at 5.25. Bah!

DS looks completely knackered in the morning, it's so annoying.

No. I am the ratty tired one, and not just at breakfast.

My LO seems to have superpowers of wakingness. She doesn't seem to need much sleep. She will sleep for a bit in the afternoon. I wish she'd not sleep in the day and tack the hour on to the night, but it just doesn't work like that. It really doesn't matter what time she goes to bed, how tired she is, what she's been doing, whether she's napped... pretty much always the same, always around 5-5.30am.

To be fair, I actually don't need that much sleep either, so she probably takes after me... But I do find I need more sleep at the moment because of all that running-around-after-a-toddler thing.

question: When your los wake up at some ungoldly hour and don't go back to sleep, do they look tired? And do they seem tired and ratty at breakfast?

(4.45am - booo hoooooooo)

for you Madigan, there's nothing more infuriating than not being able to sleep when your little one is dozing away. Perhaps that's part of the problem, that you're aware it's annoying? Perhaps just resign yourself to it and you won't get so frustrated and sleep?!

ok the past 2 nights I have been awake from 3 AM. Yes, really. My 17wo wakes me up for a feed.... and then she goes back to sleep quite easily, and I lie there and cannot get back to sleep ... have tried reading/meditation tapes/everything. Total nightmare. I feel totally wired. So I have had a total of 3.5 hours sleep for the past 2 nights. What the hell is this all about?

No ill will, Melmog. I am very pleased for you, ignore the grinding sound from my teeth.

I had a proper 6.30 waking within recent memory, now I come to think of it... about six weeks ago. I remember OH saying to me in the evening "you're chirpy today". See, see, what that extra hour would do to my fast-becoming-grim personality!

Thanks for the condolences, OrangeKnickers.

4.45am. Gave bottle and went back to bed. But it didn't work.

Unusally Dh and I were out last night and didn't get to bed till 12am. Boooo Hoooo!

So teletubbies from iplayer went on....twice! .

But in general the waking up when he does has been OK. I am still dog tired but it feels like a joint venture. Before dh and I were on different timelines from each other.

Arti, melmog and Turtle- looks like things are getting better for you! Good luck!

Mohan - condolences.

MrsJamin - Duddle is so cute!

5.11 murmurings
5.40 "Duddle! Duddle!" - I walked in, it was too cute to ignore his new word! Will be stronger tomorrow.

Oooh, some improvements! Excellent!

Usual stir at 4.50ish just to wake up Mummy for the day (I really must get some balls and put the monitor in the wardrobe...) and then back to sleep until 5.35. Not as good as 6am but still a lot better than it was a couple of months ago!

Well, I hardly dare write it down. After bringing little one down for milk in travel cot and leaving her with babytelly on at about 5ish, went back and got in bed with dd1 who was stirring. We went back to sleep and all got up at...........06.30!!!!!!!

Dh slept in and woke at 7 but he was still moaning that he was tired. Ungrateful swine.
(I slept in dd1's bed most of the night as she had a nightmare and thought I'd stay there to avoid disturbing him. Won't be doing that again!)

So sorry MoChan. I'll be right back with you tomorrow I bet.

My daughter is nearly two, and wakes up v. early, no matter how dark it is... About 5.10am is the average, though it's sometimes closer to 4am. She didn't begin 'sleeping through' until she was about 20/21 months. Prior to that she had been typically waking at 11pm, 2am, then 5am.

I am sooooooo tired I want to cry. Thanks for the opportunity to *share*....

Joy!! 545!! Oh please let this be a continuing trend...
Good luck to all of you this morning....

Hi guys, good to hear some of us are improving. Inconsistent here as usual! Monday night, he slept ALL night and didn't wake until 6.40am....6.40, never heard of before!!!! Amazing. Last night, up chatting to himself for an HOUR at 1.45am and then woke up for the day at 5.15am...waking his sister in the process. Grrrrrrrrr. Tonight, I've banished him to my mum's!!!! (and he'll probably sleep in until 10am for her!)

OK, am bound to jinx it but here goes... we've had a 5.15, a 5.30 and this morning a 5.45! Woo hoo! Hope it keeps getting better for everyone... otherwise it's improvised discos all round.

(ps. I bet I'll be on here tomorrow am trying to see if anyone can beat a 4.30am)

I'm not bitter Artifarti. You deserve it!

I appreciate your investagative(sp) work and am hoping to reap the rewards. Have requested a disco at the sleep over on the back of it!

Bedtime a bit earlier than last night: 7.35
Wake up: 6.05!

Please don't hate me! It's only been four days! (Plus, he murmured a lot between 5 and 6 so I was woken up well and truly!)

Think of me as conducting an experiment for the benefit of all parents of early wakers.

turtle - hurray for improvement
melmog - from what I hear molars are a right bugger. But maybe the sleep-over with the other children will have the disco effect? (Or she might just realise that other kids sleep a bit later)

Thanks Turtle. I'm getting fed up with this. I'm not a morning person at the best of times. Went to bed at quarter to nine last night too!

Isn't it awful that we think your 05.15 is a positive time to wake up!

Oh melmog...poor you! I think molars are the culprit here too.

Congrats Turtle!

03.15 for pick up put down with dh and medicine (for molars which I think are the cause of all this hideousness)

04.20 downstairs and into travel cot with milk

05.10 awake properly and shouting/crying for attention.

05.30 wakes her sister so I'm now downstairs with both of them.

sob sob sob

We must be moving in the right direction again! 515! Hurrah!

melmog - thanks for your condolences!!

We often do happy time but DH doesn't like it as much as me as once DS has finished feeding he climbs over to daddy and starts inserting little fingers as far as he can into facial orifices, while naming them.

Little charmer

happy time sounds amazing if your child will actually not end up running over the bed, hitting his head on the bedstead, and rifling through your underwear drawers. do it!

OrangeKnickers, I think I like the sound of that. We have one of us downstairs all tired and grumpy with the kids while the other has a lie in (but doesn't sleep as it's too noisy and bedroom is right above hard floored living room) so still grumpy.

We used to have 'happy time' with dd1 where we'd take it in turns to get her milk and our tea and some biscuits and stay in bed as long as possible. I don't know why we stopped as it was lovely and often one or both of us would doze.

May re instate 'happy time'. Will see what dh thinks. Anything's got to be better than this!

Another vote for the disco plan. Now I just need a wedding!

This morning was the first try of the we-wake-up-when-the-little-blighter does. Ie 5am.

I think I prefer it as we spent an hour in bed chatting / drinking coffee with ds coming in and out. Usually the person whose 'turn' it is gets banished to the front room. Plus as we are both getting up early, there is incentive to go to bed early together.

VC - I know you said @NO@ to this plan but we are tired and snappy anyway!

I feel a bit better this morning as I am not resenting ds for waking up early. I put the washing away and got to work early and tidied up a bit. So it's OK so far.

*joules and melmog*. Let's hope you/and your friends are right and they DO grow out of it!

Can I join in?

I have an inconsistent waker. He has, at his best, slept around 11 hours straight. He's probably done this 2 or 3 times and is 18 months.

I was happy to get up between 4.30 and 5.30 and feed him back to sleep because he would get another couple of hours then - and so could I, but then he stopped resettling and we got tough and sent DH in. Which has worked about 3 times, if that, out of many!

After a 4.50 this morning, where DS climbed out of bed and came into our room, I have decided to give up trying to settle him and just try my best with the feeds for a while (this is after a 5.30 feed the day before, then sleeping till 8!!!!)

This has only been going on since the clocks changed, (before that he just had 1-2 feeds a night but went back to sleep like a dream) so I'm hoping it will improve as the nights get longer!

'Take Your Baby to a Disco and Solve All ?Your Sleep Problems' - I like it!

Life too short for boring routines. Go to the disco!

I was wondering how you'd got on Artifarti.

Maybe you've done it!

We're away for the weekend which will involve dd sleeping in a bunk bed for the first time in a room with 4 other kids. That, combined with late bedtimes over the weekend will kill or cure or do nothing. Will report back.

Morning all!

Well, we're back and sleep-wise, it's been interesting...

Friday night, bedtime at 8pm, awake at 5.20 (bang on, as usual)

Saturday was a bit mad with random napping and an eventual bedtime of midnight (I know, call social services!) Wake up was 6am.

Sunday bedtime was 8.10pm and wake up was 6.40 (whoop! whoop!)

Monday saw a massive four hours of napping, a bedtime of 7.50 and this morning's wake up was 6am.

So, no idea what's going on really. He could just be catching up on lost sleep or I could have messed with his internal clock and jogged him out of 5.20. Too early to say really. I'm not sure we'll be able to stick with 8pm bedtime - that only really works if he has a late nap (I had to wake him up at 4.30 yesterday, even though he'd been asleep for 2.5 hours!)

I'll bet it creeps back but if not you will all be able to purchase my tried-and-tested sleep solution, provisionally entitled 'Take your Baby to a Disco and Solve All your Sleep Problems'.

[Oh and I spoke to lots of friends with kids at the wedding and the consensus seemed to be that their baby sprogs had all been through the early waking phase but grown out of it, usually when the mornings got darker...so hang in there]

5.17 yesterday

5.18 today

progress, no?

Been doing 5-somethings on and off for years (DS1 is 3).
All join in....<yaawwwwwnnnn>!

So there is light at the end of the tunnel, but we've got a long way to go til we're out of it I reckon!!

03.45, 04.10 then up at 05.30.

Istooearly, you poor thing. At least I don't have to work. Especially with KIDS!! Hope it was better this morning.

Turtle, you didn't think you'd get away did you??

Looks like I am back. 442 today. Am supposed to be going on lovely outing today...think we may stay home to nap.

there is light!!!!

Just come on here for any sympathy/condolences that may be on offer. Went to bed at midnight (I know! I know!) lost track of time watching a trashy film Ds woke up at 4.00am. Have been teaching 4 and 5 year olds on 4 hours sleep - feel like my eyes are literally going to fall out!!

woop woop for jooles, was starting to despair about DS doing it until he's 10

Thank you Jooles. That is more like it. I love you.

Hi,

I am reading your messages with tons of symapthy but I hope a shread of hope...my ds woke everyday between 4-5am for 6 whole months last summer when he was about 15 months. Unbelieveably when the clocks went back he snapped out of it and started waking consistently at 6 am, a luxury! This summer although waking earlier than in the winter he has been loads better, I wonder if an age thing? I remember those early starts so vivdly, really is a killer, I would never have believed it this time last year if someone had told me he would be waking at 6 (sometimes 6.30!)so hopefully this may give some of you hope!

Thanks Umlella. I would but she's only 16 months so I don't think she'd understand.

It's all my own fault, she's got used to the idea that if I pick her up, she's going downstairs for a cuddle.

To be fair to her though, she doesn't wake every night but she has molars coming through at the mo.

Waking in the night doesn't change the early starts either!

melmog, have you tried 'prepping' before bedtime? ie 'Dh is not going to be coming in, it's going to be mummy tonight'. We do it on any big change. Works well I think....

Oh, I've got you! Yes, she would. I do go in sometimes but it ends up with me bringing her downstairs and we doze on the sofa. My own fault, I know, but I can't stand to hear her cry and it wakes dd1.

Dh does go away quite frequently but luckily the dd's have taken it in turns to wake so not had to do one above the other iyswim.

Need to start leaving her to cry a bit I think as it is mainly whining rather than full blown crying. Keep saying I'm going to do it then bottling it!

dd2 would have to manahe

Who would have to manage? Sorry, you've lost me.

And i was joking, I know it is too much. A girl can dream can't she?!

melmog
yes it is too much.
and no, it is a terribel stage - what if dh went away, surely she woudl have to manage?

Yes, but I want them in bed by half six so I can have an evening and I don't want them to wake up til eightish.
Is that too much to ask??

I know when I was little my Dad said he never got to see me in the evenings as I was asleep by seven and he'd wake me in the morning before he left for work so he at least had a bit of time with me. I blame my dh. He was a rotten sleeper as a baby.

VC, you're right about rows when you're both tired. We take it in turns but at the moment dd2 is waking in the night and only dh can settle her quickly, (if I go in to her she just wants to get up for the day and if I try putting her down again she screams bloody murder) so even when it's my turn he's still knackered.

Sigh. Maybe one day we'll look back at this stage and think how quickly it passed.

Yah, for dd we got lovely luxurious lie-ins (though prob a brief wake at 5/6amish) and used to put her to bed post 8.30pm. Ds is definitely better (and I am exhausted by then ) with early early bedtime.

Nothing changed dd's nightly wakings though. So am very open to the idea that THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!!

oh and later nights make no diff

Ah but Orangeknickers, we have ds (dc2) in bed by 6.30pm most nights, so at least we get an evening of rest... And he is <touches every last scrap of wood> waking approx 6am at the moment (as long as I can engineer no nap in afternoon, bed by LATEST 6.30pm, pref 5.45/6pm).

NO
onyl one of you can be tired at anyone time or else you and h just row.
It never bothered me as much as dh tbh as I am an early waker. there does need to be allowance made - I would slope off for a long bath with a mag on a Sunday morning after a 5 am start.

GM and VC - cool names bythe way.

I am not REALLY sure I wanted to know that !! But as ds is two should we embrace the early waking and change the household to get up at 5. On the basis that he might do it for years so we might as well get used to it now? Or stick with 'taking turns'?.

There are plans for ds2. The thought of up all night and 5am fills me with horror.

NO
it wont.
ds2 for eg never woke up early as a baby and still is my sleepiest.
I am an early bird too even as a teen I never slept in.

Vietnamese Cobbler. No!!!!!

You're supposed to say don't worry, they'll snap out of it when the dark mornings return!!

I love the clock idea though. Mine are slightly too little but definately going to do that.

oh god its shit
specially on a wet sunday in november.

I have two 5am-ish wakers too, I haven't slept past 5.30 for nearly 6 years.........

<stumbles off to find concealer for eye bags...>

Hi guys,
I had this for years with ds1 and only now at age 10.10 is he sleeping past 6 30.
we put out foot down when after years of being allowed to get up and put the tv on it was creeping back to pre 6am.
he was putting the telly on from age 3 I think.
I can save youtime trying things out;its just the way they are born. He iS though very good at going to bed - even now says " im off I am tired" and heads off at 8pm which is pretty mature imo.
I do recommend a clock though as soon as they understand a digital read out, the other thing that was good was a plan cheap clock and you paint secotions of it in diffo colours.
sothe section between 4 adn 5 was painted red "red means stay in bed" 5- 6 was orange "play in my room" and 6- 7 was green go downstairs. You repeat this mantra to them
We managed ot buy one but they dont make them any more and you coudl as easily fashion your own.

GOOD LUCK!

4.40 and 5am. Am in bits.

MrsJamin - like you, my ds looks tired in the mornings. Which is crazy - he obviously needs the extra sleep he isn't getting. My mum sayd we should just get him in bed with us, but he won't keep still.

gah!

turle - you are very forgiving of your dh. I am impressed he has the energy to be out till 4am.

Yup, 5am here and it was my turn. Going to go for a drive with a book and a pillow so when girls fall asleep (by 9am I bet) I can have a little doze.

Do you think it will get better in the Autumn or are we just kidding ourselves??

4.55am. we seem to be going backwards again. DS has bags under his eyes at breakfast. It's going to be a long morning!

Ha! He hasn't even apologised. Nevermind, we will get back on track tonight. I hope.

Turtle, I hope you dh (is he still d?) has made it up to you by looking after you all day, cooking you a roast dinner and washing up after it. If not, yes, shooting sounds appropriate.

BTW it was 04.45 for both girls this morning but joy of joys, it wasn't my turn.

Just dropping by to gloat- 6am this morning. Ha! I didn't know myself! Luxurious it was! I had a hangover too!

omg i would have shot him!

How angry would you be...after four(I think) days of 615/630 we were both woken by "D"H coming home at 445 this morning. I am so angry and so tired.

13lucky thats the point we have sort of got to. noisy, but not unhappy. after a few days i am starting to be able to doze through it. yes its nice just being able to rest yourself for a few minutes before beginning the daily schlep again.

Sounds like a vast improvement 13Lucky. Long may it continue!

Well, there was one cry out at 1.15am this morning at which point I was ready to explode...but he resettled himself in 10 mins without me needing to get out of bed. Proper wake up was 5.01am but managed to amuse himself until about 6.15am (not particularly quietly though I must say so we were all awake but at least I didn't have to get out of bed at 5.01am!)

Oh yes, oops! . The early starts must be getting to my baby brain.

3.11 wasn't me, melmog, it was 13lucky. Bad for her though, goodness me. We had 5.20 this morning - pretty standard.

my 5am waker niece did the same when she came to stay with me, slept until 8am. i said oh its nice sleeping in isnt it sasha, and she said oh yes its lovely... so why dont you sleep in at home i said.. she looked at me like i was bonkers and just said..."that would be silly".

sort of thought it was sweet at the time, till i had my own little monster!

Artifarti Hope you have fun today and tonight is not too much of a nightmare! I only used a monitor for the first few weeks as dd was SO loud. I hate them, you can hear every snuffle and when you can't you end up worrying there's something wrong!

MrsJamin 3.11 am. There are no words. Really hope it was better for you this morning.

I was up from 01.30 til about 03.00 with dd2. I asked to dh to go in and pupd but he'd had a few too many. Of course when I try it it just enrages her. After 10 mins of serious screaming and crying I gave up and brought her downstairs where she promptly fell asleep on me. The SECOND I stood up to take her back to bed she woke and cried again. Aaaaaaarrgghhh.

Finally got her into bed and she slept til 05.45 so in a way you could say she slept in late!! Dh is doing it tonight. I'm hiding the wine.

Ah ha, artifarti, those books that tell you to ignore the baby till 6am for a few nights and then they'll get it!!!! I'm still chuckling at that one...I suppose 'a few' is a relative term. 3.11am for us this morning, although I went in after the babbling had turned into crying and managed to settle him back to sleep. Am seriously shattered as then had my dd1's 3rd birthday party today. Ds has very red cheeks so am telling myself it's teething and maybe it'll be better next week...then I'll be able to bid you farewell and sail off into the sunset! Yeah right, see you in the morning, I guess!
artifarti - good luck with the wedding

MrsJamin - absolutely, yes. It is only because the butler is on annual leave at the moment that I have to get up at all! (No - we just have very thick internal walls, the bedrooms are all on slightly different levels and we can't leave the bedroom doors open as then the flamin' cat wakes us all before the child!) And TBH I probably would hear him if he really went for it but he's my PFB hence the gradually moving the monitor away...

I have also been steadfastly ignoring DS until 6am (unless really upset) for three months. The books all tell me that within a week he will have learned to sleep longer. PAH!

I do ignore for at least 30-45 mins, melmog, until he is actually crying than 'bababa'. He does not get bored and goes back to sleep! I hope for that every day and it never happens. I just get up because I'm bored and have been awake myself for so long I'm hungry for breakfast myself.

artifarti - do you really have a big enough house that you couldn't hear your DS without a monitor?

Well, we are setting off for the wedding at 7am tomorrow to get there in time so you can guarantee that this will be the morning DS sleeps until well past six. Actually, scrub that, he so won't!

melmog After months of having the monitor pratically attched to my head, I have now turned it down to minus seven and am gradually moving it towards the other end of the room, with a view to eventually putting it outside of the room on its lowest setting! Not quite at the earplugs stage yet then!

I like your style Iwish!

I'm thinking in investing in some earplugs. After all, what's the worst that could happen???

When my Dad and stepmum looked after my dc on our first weekend away for THREE YEARS, both girls slept really well. Dad said he thought he heard the little one so went to have a look, she was awake so he said 'go back to sleep' and she rolled over and smiled then shut her eyes.

I'm sure I respond or get dh to respond too early. I bet if I couldn't hear them they'd get bored and go back to sleep.

I'm too scared to try it! Someone else do it tonight and tell me how it went?

Bah melmog! Hope it's a bit better tonight. And maybe earplugs are the future herhonesty?

By the way, after being averagemum, then underaveragemum and in a fit of joy at thinking I had the sleeping thing cracked aboveaveragemum (which is a crap name because I'm too embarrassed to post on any other threads in case I sound too smug!) I'm now.... IwishIcouldmoonwalk (which is true).

yes he is good!! i am very lucky. although i am on my own for most of the week, by time he gets home i am a mess!

wow your DH is lovely, herhonesty!

so lovely dh comes home from week away with work and insists i sleep in spare room with ear plugs to get some sleep. normally earplugs fall out with me after half an hour or so so i thought yeah right like i wont wake up but nice thought.

now. new earplugs. i slept through, woke briefly at 5.20 thinking... i cant hear her, again at 6 am still no noise and then 6.45 am by which time i think by god we have cracked it!!! interspersed with " must get on to mumsnet to tell them" further interspersed with slight concern that she might not be alive..

so at 7 i get up and find husband dozing having been up at 11, 12, 1, 2 and the 5.30 usall routine, but daughter is so knackered with teething pain that she has conked herself out again...

oh well, at least i got a decent nights sleep!

Bugger. Back to half four this morning. *Nothing works!!!*
At lease it was my turn for a lie in.

Can I join in too? We had a pretty good sleeping baby in the first year, with Amby and swaddling. We moveed him to a big bed and he's now 2 and thinks that 5am is morning. Whch is terrible! I know some of you have it worse but 5am for me is a killer.

We get up at 6am to get ready for CM/work anyway but the lack of the hour kills me.

He goes to bed at about 7pm then is asleep at about 8pm. I used to be able to leave him but now it's 'mama mama mama mama!' and I have to stay till he falls asleep.

We got a bunny clock - the kidsleep one and used it with a sticker reward chart. It worked well for about 2 weeks but now we are back to 5am. There are spanish style security blinds in ds' room so it's inky black.

I was thinking that mayeb it's because I work four days a week and ds was getting up early to spend more time with me, so am relieved to see that SAHM mums suffering the same [selfish emoticon].

I am considering making 5am the family wake up time. Jesus.

sorry for long post!

6-something this morning, I think he only didn't go back to sleep because he'd done a huge poo.

I wonder whether cbeebies could put on a special early-wakers program at 5.30am, being a bit more sympathetic and giving us reminders that "this too is just a phase".

good idea! wouldn't want to over do it!!
Only an hour more of cbeebies before i can crawl back to bed and dh (who has day off) can reasonably be woken up to take over!!

Never too early for gin. I'd give the tonic a miss at this time though...

do you suppose it is too early for gin? Surely would make either me or him sleep?

Morning All! [snatches coffee from aboveaveragemum and bangs pans loudly outside the house of Heather134] - 5.30, that's an improvement! Agree with isittooearly about the slapping-deterrent. DS went through a 'hilarious' phase of biting my jawline with his four nasty gnashers. Perhaps just say no, put him straight down, keep it boring so he doesn't think it's a game.

5.20 for us. Boring. Think he might have been a bit cold as he pooped on his sleeping bag yesterday so had to wear a very light one. And it's relatively nippy here this morning. Last week in the heatwave he was sleeping later, so might have to start swaddling him in tinfoil or something [joke, obviously...]

We're off to a wedding tomorrow and so DS will probably be going to bed later and in our minging travelodge luxury boutique hotel. So that will no doubt be in-ter-esting...

aboveaverage - can sympathise - is one thing being woken up at 5, another to be whacked around the face for your troubles! My ds was very whingey when he woke this morning at 5 which made me want to scream "Then why are you awake?!- you're obviously tired, I'm tired, let's all just go back to sleep" alas, to no avail!!
I would do just what you have but also start putting baby straight down if he you have been holding him - same sort of response for biting during bfeeding.

Yay MrsJamin! And some extra-strength coffee for the rest of us (apart from smug lady). 5.30 this morning! Whoop! Whoop! Though he did wake briefly at 1.30am - so maybe that was why. Or was it because I left the hall light on for once? (desperate for anything to make it happen again!).

By the way, totally off topic but I know some of us have ds's the same age (10 months). Mine has --started whacking me round the face--- patting me lovingly but very energetically. I've been trying to say No, and to show him how to do it gently, but when it's at 5am I'm not in my best patient mum mode. Any tips? Anyone else? Should I start a competitive whacking thread? But itùs only here that I feel understood!

can't believe you guys are terming 2.30 as morning! it is definately still night time!!

Oh yes, I hate that repetitive tune they have on. It's better than Lapitch and Corduroy on some other channel dd flicks to. It's all wrong at that time in the morning.

I'm at the stage when I look forward to Tikkabilla as it means the day is starting for the real world too!

Meant to say...bang in time to coincide with me going back to work after a year off...

Oooh,A thread to moan on.

DD 3.5 has just recently started waking at 5am after a year of me being off work due to dh poor health.

Blackout blinds are pants.

We have just moved her from cot to bed in the last month (SN, hence her being in a cot so long) and she has figured out how to get out of bed,open her door and hang off the safety gate yelling "Aaaah,aaah,aaah" at ever increasing volume until I go get her.

I have to say I am beginning to get a fear of that blardy C-beebies montage "It's Cbeebies hip hoooray" or somesuch that they put on between 5;30 and 6am.I mentally replace the words with "Its Cbeebies...F%%k right off".It amuses her for a few minutes watching it then she starts leaping on me and squashing me and trying to prise my eyelids open.

Just when I think I can legitimately feel sorry for myself someone comes along and ruins it!

13lucky and Fizzyem, I take my hat off to you both.

Here's hoping it gets easier for you. I won't moan any more. Honest.

I think I should surrender and let fizzyem have the prize as he did eventually go back to sleep at 5am after I gave in and gave some milk...not that it was much use to me as I couldn't get back to sleep until 6am and dd1 was up at 6.30am!

ha ha artifarti. really really really hope one day this thread will be just a distant memory...

6.22, MrsJamin - what a little cracker!

You do realise there's a 'three strikes (ie past 6am) and you're out' rule on this thread? Or a 'one strike and you're out' for anyone who posts "Oooh, my DC all sleep fifteen hours a night and even then I have to poke them awake with a sharp stick just before the start of Loose Women."

congrats mrsjamin. did the extra sleep lift the fog that seems to dog my days?

DS went to 6.22am this morning - not bad at all and I would be quite happy to settle with it. He went to bed at 6pm tonight after virtually no sleep with the childminder, so hopefully this means a long night's sleep rather than troubled sleep as he went to bed so tired.

heather134, not sure that's particularly helpful contribution - like posting on a 'having difficulty conceiving' thread about how you just fell pregnant so easily! good for you but I'd keep quiet.

Indeed 13lucky and fizzyem, you are both unfortunately up for the prize. Poor you guys. DS has only done 3.30 once (earlier in the thread) and it was a killer day.

radio4play - nice idea, I'm willing to try anything! I just wish these were the days I was still BFing so I could just do that to get him back to sleep.

heather124 was that post really necessary. perhaps you should start a competitive long sleeping thread.

well today i had a slight improvement. 5.40 am!!! woohoooo

13lucky and fizzyem - wow, 2.30am and 3.30am! You are definitely in contention for the prize today!

heather124 - I'm afraid on this thread, you lose. But you are clearly blessed, indeed, yes.

Liking the CD trick radio4play. DS is a bit of an ITNG fan (although not sure I could stand to listen to it down the monitor for too long!)

I feel your pain... after not going through the night until she was one, my little girl woke up at 5 every morning for much of the next year... unless we were in a strange house, in which case it was at least an hour earlier - HELL! Our record was 3:30 whilst on holiday; some holiday!!! She grew out of it around her 2nd birthday (so there's light at the end of the tunnel!) One thing to help in the meantime is putting a CD on when they wake up - "In the Night Garden" was what first cracked it for us (very soporific!) but anything fairly calm and gentle is good (e.g. Winnie the Pooh or Angelina Ballerina). Good luck and remember it won't be forever!

My goodness. Sorry to hear all this!! Not meaning to rub it in but my 22 month old son sleeps 8pm til between 9.30 and 10am. Also, often has a sleep in middle of day for 1-2 hours. I am clearly blessed.

Scene: Dropping ds1 off at nursery.
Me: Erm, he might be kinda tired and cranky, he was up really early this morning.
Lovely nursery lady: Oh? What time?
Me: Oh, 3.30...
Her: [falls over].

I can count on one hand the number of times I've been able to get either ds to sleep past 6am ... usually more like 5 ... and if one sleeps the other is awake ... and they always scream bloody murder. I've heard some children wake up and play quietly. How do you make this happen? It's been five years ... do I win???

I'd like to join you please! I'm afraid I haven't read all the posts but I get the gist and this is definitely the category for me! Pinchypants - sounds very similar to me. I have a three year old dd who is amazing at sleeping - wakes up early-ish (or so I thought until I had ds!) but goes to sleep at 7pm for about 11 hours and then still has a 2 hour nap EVERY day. Lovely. My ds, on the other hand, does his own thing. Literally. One day, you'll think, crikey, he's got it. The next, it'll be 3am waking again...what's that all about? This morning it was 3.30am, yesterday morning it was 2.30am. Nothing seemed to work until I got him some milk. But he hasn't had milk in the night for months. I'm absolutely shattered and like pp said, the pre-school drive is hazardous! Good luck everyone for tonight!

5.01 this morning! So feeling comparatively well-rested! Great news for everyone who is seeing some improvement. I think I gave birth to random-boy, but if manages consistently after 5am then - for the moment! - I'm happy....

Hi everyone
Just popping in to see how everyone is getting on, DS has been fine for the past week or so (desperately hoping I'm not jinxing that) seems to be sleeping consistently until after 5. We'll see how long it lasts! He's in a bed now as well so doesn't tend to cry in the mornings, either just asks for me or comes through to wake me up

Fingers and toes crossed for you that it keeps going Artifarti.

I always reckon being in bed, however early, is better than being 'up' and downstairs.

You can kind of pretend that you are resting anyway.

Earplugs for tomorrow??

Run, run from the thread turtle! Make the most of it, hope it lasts. You know where we are.

I love the word 'ratty' melmog! Much underused these days!

A rummage and shouting session at 4.30am. Just enough to wake me up good and proper and then he goes back to sleep until 5.35! Still, at least I get to read my book. DS seems to be able to stretch to 10.5 hours sleep now rather than 10 so hopefully, tentatively, maybe moving in the right direction...

Maybe you've cracked it Turtle! Can you pop over and sort mine out?

I am cursing myself for saying this..but we had another 11 hour night ending at 615 so I will be back, I'm sure, by next week!

I'm a regular cry baby! It's being tired, it ruins everything. At lease if the dd's wake early they can nap later. Not fair!

Back to 5am today. It's so much bettr when dh gets up as I can snuggle with elder dd and get another hour with her. But when I'm up, they're all up!

Going to wear them out at a playgroup then the park then hopefully they'll both fall asleep. Then they'll have a later night. Then they'll be up even earlier tomorrow. Then I'll be ratty and tearful again.

sigh.

aboveaveragemum - I am a master weeper. In particular I am good at the self-pitying 'woe is me, it's sooo not fair, why me, why do all other babies in the world sleep better than mine, boo hoo, sob'. Then when I stop I am actually a bit . But there's nowt wrong with a good cry I always think!

At the risk of teaching gran to suck eggs - do you have blackout blinds? Ours didn't bring us the promised land of 7am but seemed to cut out the pre-5am nonsense (oh lor, what have I said, tomorrow morning he will be awake at 4.20 now...)

I wish I could do the 'this is not acceptable thing' - I just find tears at that time so hard to deal with, harder than getting up with him, as at that time I think my ds really knows it's nearly morning, and that his body has had almost enough sleep... I know, I know: I've made my bed, will have to lie in it (as it were, I wish...).

at last! other mothers with early risers!....ds is my first, now 8 months old and EVERY other mum I have met has a dream baby who sleeps for 12 hours, grrrrr

we get up between 4.30 and 5.30 every morning and only rarely go back to sleep before 7 - my biggest problem is that he IS hungry at 0430 so I feed him - but then he's totally woken up ...

he has never slept through the night - until six months was waking 2 or 3 times - now just very early - I am completely shattered all the time and the idea that this could go on for years is so unbelivably depressing I'm not sure I can face it!

4.30 this morning! BOO! Doesn't it feel like everyone else in the world has predictable babies? As soon as I get lulled into thinking ds is doing something pretty good (OK, 5.20 starts aren't good, but comparatively, they're a lie-in) he pings back to keep me on my toes. Am knackered. Feel like crying. Anyone else care to join me?

oh, hello, this is where the dawn chorus hang out? Artifarti - my DD used to be a pretty good 7.30 - 7 sleeper from about 12 months to last month.

Now she's in a big bed (22 months) she takes aaaages to go to sleep and comes into our room increasingly early in the mornings - wake up mummy, downstairs, beebies, milk!.

On average she's dropping off between 8 and 8.30 pm with me in the room (meaning if I want to eat and have any evening to myself I don't go to bed until 11) then her wake up times have been between 5.30 and 6.15. She naps during the day (at the childminders') for about 1 1/2.

Which I realise doesn't put me in the premier league but it still leaves me befuddled at work and slightly lacking in patience.

I really, really, really hope this is a phase. I seem to post a 'oh god it's all gone wrong' message about her to mumsnet about every 5 months.

Not even going to try and compete with the early waking thing- I feel so much for you all!

But, FWIW, ds2 tries to get up at around 4.30/5 a.m. What we do is keep a bottle of milk in a freezer bag by his bedroom door and when he mumbles, run in, give it to him, and run out again. We also leave some cardboard books in his cot for his entertainment (although this often means just throwing them out of the cot for fun). It usually buys another hour and a half or so.

I have also been known to put earplugs in. The beauty of this is I can hear if he gets too antsy but I can't hear the first mublings/chunterings which often account for nearly half an hour. (Although, DH is always around for emergencies AND ds2's bedroom is next to ours, with his cot and our bed situated on the joining wall, so he's really only about two feet away)

My first words in the morning are usually "Oh FFS! You are having a laugh!" but fortunately DS sleeps in his own room and doesn't hear so I don't think I will scar him for life just yet!

Lol at "this is not acceptable"!

My dh says " shut up and go to sleep you stupid baby" and it often works.

Hello ladies, can I join in? Am at wits end with DS, who is 10 months. He has always been a bit of a crap sleeper, shocking after his angel of a big sister who at almost three still has an afternoon nap a couple of times a week and has slept 7-7 since she was 9weeks old (no kidding, she was astonishing. I thought it was my amazing baby whisperer-style parenting skills. Ha.).

He was sleeping till 6.45 a while back, absolutely perfect, but it's getting earlier and earlier every morning, hitting a new low of 5.20am today. I know it's not the worst ever, but I am totally shattered and so overtired that I'm sleeping badly at night myself.

DH went in this morning and just saiid to him 'this is not acceptable', stuck a bottle in and walked out. Not exactly my style, but I have turned into shouty mum with both kiddies and I'm sure my nursery run drive is about as safe as if I'd had two glasses of wine...

ds just gone for a nap (never usually has a day time sleep) having woken up at 5.00am for second time. Makes me go GRRRR! as while he's spark out, I'm not! Makes me say through gritted teeth "Why can't you sleep when I sleep at the designated sleeping time." I feel your pain arti!!

Congrats Turtle!!
Poor Artifarti and ds. Hope he feels better and you bnoth get some rest.

Dh got up with dd2 at 5.30. Dd1 came in to me at 6 to tell me it was 6 o clock and milk time. So much better! They both had very early nights. Going to try it again tonight.

artifarti-poor you!
and yes, scan all good, thanks...another boy!

Good for you turtle and hope the scan went well. Maybe you will have 20 weeks grace before it all begins again.

5.30 here which is on the good side of shit until I add that I was up every hour from 1am as he has a nasty cold. And now he won't stop crying, poor thing. It's going to be another loooong day.

I am not here to brag, just that you lot are the only ones who will understand my delight. We slept until...620 this morning. After over two solid years of being pregnant and breastfeeding this is the 5th morning later than 615.

In my case, dd1 always slept til 7am and had a 2 hour nap in the day. She would now wake at 6ish without a nap if the other one didn't wake her first.

Dd2 is the main culprit. I'm hoping we can be strong and continue with the ignoring. It will work, she whines more than cries and when you go in she's standing up grinning like a loon!

I'm thinking egg boxes on their bedroom walls might help.

This morning DS woke up at 4.11am. and then went back to sleep again until 6.45!!!! This is unheard of - if he's up after 4 he normally won't go back to sleep for love nor money. So I at least have some hope that it might happen again.

For the record, I haven't slept well in about 2 years - pregnancy, then bfing in the night til DS was 11 and a half MO - then about 2 weeks of sleeping through only to start early waking when he turned 1. Might I hope to actually go to bed later than 9.30?!?! I don't think it's seasonal TBH, and DS started early waking early January and it's been pretty consistent since then. I have no theory that holds water.

arti - it might help to know that dd1 was early riser but now wakes between 7 & 8 depending on what time she falls asleep. Now my younger ds wakes early - so it hasn't been the same child - its like they play tag team early rising. Didn't you know too much sleep is bad for you! (yawn!!)

isittooearly - you have had an early waker for three years?! [horror] And sympathies on the cats; mine woke me up before DS yesterday at 5.15. He got very short shrift...

[steps forward with some trepidation to ask question]...for those of you with toddlers - have they always been early risers or this a fresh hell they have inflicted on you?

condolences to anyone who has to wake up routinely early well into toddlerhood and beyond especially after all those anxious "when will they sleep through?" conversations when they were newborns. If someone had told us "ooh! probably three years" I would have run away screaming.
What I found particulary annoying was being woken up at 4.55 (its important to say 4.55 rather than 5.00 just so that the fourness of it is made quite clear) by our cats pining for food. . words can not express the depth of emotion this elicited. Beginning to hate the cats.

Good luck today Turtle.

I'd do that if I were you Honesty, if she doesn't cry it's easier to ignore isn't it.

Came down at 6 today. Result!! Dh got up to dd2 a couple of times but just stroked her and told her to go to sleep and left her. I was in dd1's bed telling her to go back to sleep. Didn't work but at least we were all in bedroom, lying down and I had my eyes closed til 5 to 6.

They both had late naps yesterday as had such a crap night before, not waking til 5... oops! Bedtime was nearly 9 rather that the usual 7. Dh and I missed our grown up time though. Never satisfied!

5.15 here after he made it to 5.35 yesterday. I don't think early bedtimes work for us at all aam - this is where our boys may finally differ! He seems to currently need 10.5 hours sleep so am going to try and extend to a 7.30 bedtime. Clutching at straws.

melmog and turtle - that is very tough, poor you. Good luck with your scan turtle, I'm sure you'll be too excited to sleep past it!

76 days until the start of autumn...

another 5.20 start, after two or three wakes. have just spent 200 quid on a new pair of double black out lined curtains. no good. our new policy is to leave until 6.30 am. she doesnt cry, is more vocal/grumbly. will report back.

this is my first very dc but i seriously dont think i could have another, i am so knackered and have to go back to work in september.

5.20 again here - but ds called out briefly at 4ish, then 4.45ish, then finally up at 5.20. The going to bed earlier thing does seem to be making a bit of a difference - I'm so sorry it's so tough at the moment turtle and melmog. I really struggle with 4.30, it's RUBBISH and I'm not even pregnant. Good luck with your scan!

430 unless you count the pretending to be asleep while holding DS in vain attempt to get 5 minutes or so. Got out of bed in tears at 440. So tired. Have my 20 week scan today and am terrified I will fall asleep with DS thisafternoon and miss it.

Had two coffes and about to crack open the red bull.

4.15 this morning. My life is shit!

Ran in to get 16month old and whipped her downstairs to get milk before she woke dd 2.11. Didn't work, 5 mins later as dd2 dropped off in travel cot downstairs dd1 slunk downstairs asking for milk.

Thinking about ignoring dd2 when she first wakes and getting into dd1's bed to soothe her back to sleep while dd2 cries.

Rubbish.

Little bugger DS refused to sleep until nearly 10 pm last night and then jumped out of bed at 5. I think I may have to just leave home for a few days and leave DH to get on with it while I sleep a bit.

A lot of people say that aboveaveragemum - that putting them to bed earlier works. I think it's because they are not so knackered that they fall into a really deep sleep straightaway. Interestingly the days this week when DS slept past 5.30, he had napped past 4pm the previous day - so again was going to bed not as tired as normal.

Perhaps we have found the answer, hahaha. Well, DS is currently napping so I might get to test my theory out tonight...

5.05! Not great I know but loads better than 4.30am! And he fell asleep at... 6.05pm. So more sleep = more sleep? Dunno.

Lots of sleep yesterday, in contrast to the day before.

5.22.

Nothing. Makes. Any. Difference.

(But at least I got to go back to bed today )

ok. 3.40. not amused. tried dummy water nappy then feed and then ignored and some time after 5.30 either she fell asleep again or I did.

we have decided to go cold turkey. ignore until 6 am.

5.18. Not prize-winning but still yawn. And this despite the fact that he was awake at 3am to 'practice' standing. Grrr...

He had hardly any sleep yesterday as we were out and about so have definitely concluded that the restricting naps theory is bollocks groundless in our case. So I am going back to let him nap for 3-4 hours a day and at least I get some peace and quiet, haha.

I am clinging on to the hope that it is partly seasonal. DS is an August baby and had just started sleeping through until 6ish in April - then it started to creep back. I have been obsessively consulting sunrise charts and it seems we should all see some improvement by September [please don't sue me if you don't emoticon]

(PS ds is a July baby too. And we couldn't change dd's night patterns either.)

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggghhhhhhhhh. Needed somewhere to vent.

5am this morning, after a week or so of 6-7 (and one 7.45 ). I think dd used to wake and then we'd go back to sleep later. Problem is that dd would happily play by herself/watch cbeebies while ds will just whinge/pull/grab/bite me/destroy stuff/fall over/piss me off. In a flat too, so bet downstairs love us this morning...

Thing is, I DO know what works. It's EARLY bedtimes. I mean, before 6pm. He still wakes through the night, but will sleep past 6am (yes, I know. but that's a lie-in these days, isn't it?). Just hard to actually do (means no nap after about 11am/12ish).

Anyway... off to try and put him back into bed.

Put DDS to bed an hour later just for kicks. We went to 5:02...a veritable lie-in. It makes no difference, it seems. Argh.

4.30 this morning! Argh! And he really slept very little yesterday, less than he needed, so my new 'theory' is that it's just totally random and there's not a lot I/we can do. But it sounds like our boys have definitely been chatting to each other artifarti - though that said my lo didn't have his am nap a couple of weeks ago, he woke at 6am so just wasn't tired, but was exhausted by 11.30ish and it was the morning after that day that he pinged back to waking 5amish and has been since. What does that mean? I have no idea!

Do any of you think it is to do with the time of year they were born? DS was a crappy sleeper but our days always started after 7; DD has always been a good sleeper but really from 4 months she has been an early riser (before 6). DS May b'day; DD Dec.
but to quote arti 'who knows?!'

i win i win this morning it was 4.20 again. but luckily dh got up and let me have a bit more sleep. something, no doubt, to do with him announcing that he is going to work in cumbria for 6 weeks. oh well at least one of us will get a decent nights sleep.

aboveaveragemum - I don't know about you but I am beginning to wonder if DS (also 10 mo) will be an early nap dropper. He's never been a very sleepy baby, dropped the third nap at 5 months and is now going about 4 hours or more between naps - even when he gets up early, it's getting hard to fit two naps into the day! I've also been told that this can cause the early waking (apparently GF recommends dropping the morning nap to stop early waking but I don't think he's quite ready yet). Ah, who knows?!

Oh turtle, poor you. DS is only 10 months - some of my baby friends (all with good sleepers, funnily enough) are already getting broody again. I laugh in the face of anyone who even suggests I might get pregnant again in the next ten two years. Hope you get the chance to have a nap later.

Morning!!

4.40 for me this morning.

Feel quite bright though for some strange reason.

Just read my last post and got my dds mixed up, if anyone was reading it. It makes no sense.

Restricting naps didn't work for us then. Going to try getting them both down for a nap asap this morning and see if that makes a difference.

I wonder if I'll eventually accept that this is how it is going to be for the summer?

4.55 - better than yesterday, but only by 10mins! My lo is only 10 months so when I say limit what I really mean is instead of sleeping 45mins in the morning and 1hr15 in the afternoon (he's never been a great daytime sleeper) to lop off 15 mins off each. I'm beginning to be convinced that he needs precisely 12.5 hrs per 24hr, any more and he just wakes up scary early rather than copable... untested theory though!

Hello...we had 4:38 this morning after a run of making it all the way to 5 for 5 whole mornings. I am dying. DS is 15 months and have tried it all. Oh yes...am also 20 weeks pg. Hell on earth.

Back in contention today.

5.14.

Does anyone else find that having a baby has completely ruined their own sleep skills? I can't sleep if I go to bed early and if I wake early (4.20 again this morning) I can't get back to sleep. Sigh.

Ooh, for everybody who suffers as a result of dawn chorus hell, when DS wakes for a feed at 4am (which he always does) I whack on some white noise, really loud, to drown out the bastard squawking delightful birdsong. I downloaded it from Amazon onto my ipod and it's worked a treat for me. Without it he's guaranteed to be bright-eyed and bushy-tailed by 4.30, with it I usually have to wake him at 6.30. I also have it playing through the monitor so that the feathered little feckas don't stop me from going back to sleep too.

Certainly beats the alternative which would have included an air rifle...

Mrsjamin. My dd1 is 3 in August and dd2 is 16 months. Dd2 is asleep now but only going to let her have an hour and then maybe half an hour this afternoon.

I tend to make sure I've got something nice and snacky for when I wake her as she can be horrid too.

Dd2 will definately start flagging at 4ish so that's when I have to be vigilant!

It was so early because DS's room was still 29 degrees at that time he actually felt like he had a temperature poor boy, so he wasn't tired enough that he had to sleep. Blasted thick victorian walls. He's going to sleep in our room tonight as it's cooler.

Those of you who limit day naps, what ages are your children? DS at 18 MO seems just too young to drop his nap and he's perfectly hideous if he has less than 2 hours nap. I can't wait until he can understand more about it being night-time and that everyone else is asleep.

MrsJamin that is truly .

Slight improvement of sorts for us today. DD still woke in the night (she never did so as a baby or in her cot) so I went and sat and held her hand until she dropped off again and crept out. She came in again at 5 and I certainly wasn't getting up then so I took her back to bed, did the hand holding thing again whilst I lay on the nest of pillows/spare duvets on the floor and dozed(in case she falls out of bed as she's not tucked in in this hot weather!) and I was back in my bed by 5.30. She slept until just before 7 - so it can be done.

Grapes from the fridge dropped onto dd1's bare tummy by 'accident' worked on tuesday when I saw her eyes close!

Will let you know if I manage it. Dd2 still needs a sleep but yesterday had 3. Dd1 doesn't really need one but in this heat she gets wiped out.

Going to de camp to the cool playroom and do puzzles and stuff to keep them going.

hi everyone, please can I join in! DD, aged 2.11, who used to be a good sleeper, now wakes at 4.45am (exactly!) every day for over a week now. I'm putting it down to the hot weather but I feel like the living dead! Can I ask, when your LO's wake so early do you try and get them back to sleep or do you just give up and accept that morning has started? Ive tried every morning for the last week to get her back to bed and all but one morning it has been a battle and she has point blank refused. She doesnt seem tired during the day (which is a bit worrying) so is happy on the amount she is getting. I'm worried that its going to start to be a habit!

Also, has anybody else tried the bunny clock? If so, does it work? Thanks!

I tried the limiting daytime sleep and he woke before 5am! There is no rhyme or reason to what he does. He didn't go to sleep last night until 8pm as he was arsing about in his cot - but then the other night he didn't go to sleep until 8.30 and woke up at 4.50.

I think the no naps can work well, especially for toddlers. I know friends that have had success with the poking with sticks technique.

4.45am - so you do get the prize MrsJamin! Poor you. I'm going to try limiting daytime sleep a bit, as that did seem to be working before... arti!

does the not napping work, how do you keep them awake?

Oh no Mrsjamin. That's terrible. We were up at that time but managed to get them both back to sleep so dh had a lie in til 5 and I did til 8!

No one is napping today. I'm going to be doing a lot of poking with a stick if I see eyes closing.

5.55am. His best since Easter. Almost not early waking.

But if it's any consolation I woke up at 4.20 and couldn't get back to sleep and his naps are a bloody nightmare at the moment!

MrsJamin - That's a shocker. Today's prize must surely be yours.

[slinks off thread to rugby tackle DS who is standing in cot rubbing his eyes but refusing to nap]

mrsjamin oh no thats awful. we were 4.20 this morning. so knackered we both forgot it was our wedding anniversary.

Right, I must win this morning. 3.36am.

at your cat mejon. I wish babies were as easy to train not to get me up early as cats are. Our cat used to get up at 5am, smash through the door and jump on us...so we fitted a lock on the inside of the bedroom door and piled up cushions on the other side to stop him scratching! Wonder if that would work for DS (maybe when he's a bit older...)

I had a 4.50 this morning too. She did come into our bed and start to drift off again but I ended up disturbing her again whilst attending to the cat who was tap-tap-tapping at the locked cat flap with increasing thumps trying to get out. I can guarantee if DD sleeps through, the cat will wake me up !

well done aam, you won today's prize of unbearable heat (if you are in SE/E England).

4.50

I win. (boo)

5.20 today for little one but she went back in her cot with a bottle and dropped off again. (I don't care how naughty that is!)

Big one up from 6.10.

Woohoo!!! Best lie in in weeks.

5.34 here. This constitutes a good morning!

5.30 here. Can anyone do any earlier?

Yes artifarti, that was me, I should know better than to claim a whole early waking theory on 2 good nights' sleep! Spoke too soon, didn't I?

Oh yes, the standing up wailing nap refusal thing... Well actually we do seem to have cracked that one - but it did involve lots and lots of shouting at bedtime over two nights, then he just stopped doing it... or rather he stopped the shouting, just went back to going to sleep quietly by himself. After falling asleep on his knees on night two (which I still feel terrible about) he seemed to just click that you DO need to lie down to fall asleep. Well, when I say cracked it... I too have resigned myself to naps outside in the buggy BUT have just figured out that if I park up under the trees with 10 minutes of ds falling asleep then he stays asleep! And this after 10 months of pushing him around for an hour a day (I never managed to get more than one nap per day in the cot). I'm actually reading books! Maybe worth a try? Timing is everything though, leave it 12 minutes and you're buggered. I'm sorry to hear you're going through it too, though. And am very scared to hear about the 18month old still doing the 5am thing. I think that'll be us in 8 months, because although ds is probably at his best if he wakes 5.30-6ish, at 5am he's very much into the day, and can keep going for a good 3 hours. Bah.

aboveaveragemum - we meet yet again. Yes, you can guarantee if there's a thread whining on about sleep, it will have my hand behind it. Did I also see you on a thread recently about your little lovely standing in his cot and refusing to nap? Yep, we have that one too at the moment! Ours were obviously fashioned from the same mould. Oh, and it was spot on 4.55 here this morning too. Now, I don't think that DS is a natural early riser (well probably 6am early but not 5am early) as he was so tired this morning that he refused his breakfast and was back in bed for two hours at 7.40. It is the bastard birds...and the standing...and the sitting...and the crawling...and the teething...blah, blah, blah...

SparkyFartDust - night wakings and early risings?! Now, that is really not fair. Poor you.

MrsJamin - I'm sure I remember your name from a thread ages ago saying you had found the cure for early waking and it was protein at supper. Have I gone mad?! (I have tried it BTW and you're right, it doesn't work!)

The only thing that made DS sleep 7-7 for three nights was staying at my mother's. So I might have to go and live with her. (I'm tired but not quite that tired...)

Ooh can I join? 18 MO DS has been early waking since his birthday (pretty much), at the moment it's 4.30ish, the average over 6 months is probably 5.30 though. I think I had one 3.30am but I was probably too sleep deprived to register the memory properly. Tried everything, early to bed, late to bed, wake to sleep, no carbs at tea time, shh "it's time to go to sleep", complete blackout, NOTHING WORKS. perhaps I need to be more supportive to others for whom this nightmare parenting challenge has just begun.

hello artifarti. I remember you from a thread some time ago about non-sleeping babies. I came onto that thread a broken woman and then again to brag say that my DD2 had sorted herself out and was going through the night.

This was a brief reprise and she's now back on form shouting the odds most nights, throughout the night. She also specialises in dawn waking.

by the way, we have electric blinds so ds sleeps in what is effectively an inky-black box. It's the birds, I swear it's those bastard birds...

hello artifarti! I had a feeling this thread might have your name on it! Did I say something a week or two or go about ds waking up nearer 6am-ish, nothing I did? Ha! ha! Ah. 4.55am this morning. Do you really think autumn will be a cure-all? I've a feeling my ds is just born to rise early - and sleep early. He goes down at 6.30-45pm ish and whether it's earlier or later seems to have no bearing on what he does in the morning.

But, hey, remember when we thought they'd never sleep through?!! Ds still has about one night a week when he wakes up and has a bit of a shout, but we can usually leave him to it and he drops back off after a minute or two. Which is great, but with the early mornings I'm in bed at 9.30ish and have no life to speak of....ah well. Was never much of a night owl anyway.

Fingers crossed it WILL get better for all of us soon!

3am .

DD is nearly 3 and has been waking early for a couple of months. Coupled with now waking in the night several times a week and trying to come in to our bed, I'm quite shell-shocked as she used to sleep through until at least 7 or 8 am.

Sadly, putting her to bed later hasn't worked one bit - bedtime is now 45 minutes later than it used to be and she is waking earlier than before. She had a couple of later nights last week due to one thing and another and was still awake and raring to go with the birds. Can she really only need 9 hours sleep a day??!!! (She doesn't nap during the day and hasn't done for 2 years or more)

coming on a bit late in this thread but DS 21mo got up at 3am this morning. i have drugged him tonight as i must get more sleeezzzzzzzzzzzzeeepppp.

the only thing that happened was the 1 hour later bedtime than usual on Saturday.
So last night was half an hour later than usual but it seems to have reset the early waking.
Don't get too - he'll be back to 4.15 tomorrow

Aaaah, you give me hope!

[nevertheless, pelts StealthPolarBear with eggs...]

I did I'm afraid to say - T slept through from 8.30 to 6.30 - not even a whimper during the night! That might be the best yet.

Did you have a good morning then SPB?

Think I need to leave this thread before I get pelted with eggs...

Well, yesterday he had sea air, exciting new faces and places, no excessive napping and a late bedtime of 8.30. And the result?

5.10 this morning.

He is teething at the moment, poor mite, and so completely refuses to nap during the day unless pushed. The absolute last thing I need this week is a heatwave.

I really really want autumn to come now.

[big miserable sigh]

SPB - another 5 am wakeup here. Pesky child - its a good thing he's so adorable or I'd be putting him up on ebay!

oh no, I was kind of hoping this would sort it all out. Can't really handle a later than 8pm bedtime!
I'll let you know tomorrow

SPB - that's interesting as we had friends round on Friday night and so DS went to bed half an hour later because he was showing off (only 10 months old and already works a crowd!) - yesterday he woke at 5.50. Last night, usual bedtime of 7pm and he's back to waking at 5.20. So, I think we will also try the later bedtime tactic and see if it's that or just a coincidence. Hurrah for your 6.30! (less so for your 2.40...)

Well DS went to bed an hour later last night as we were out (about 9 or 9.15ish) and didn't wake up until 6.30
Can't believe I never thought to try that! We'll see how he is tonight - going to make sure he doesn't sleep today.
He did wake for a feed at 2.40 for anyone getting too
Hope that fact that I am the first poster means the rest of you are having some sleep too!

DS2 is an early riser too - 5.10 this morning (was 4.45 last night) with a nice line in chuntering away for an hour and a half between 2 and 3.30ish... sigh. He's only 4 and a half months - am really hoping this night waking and chuntering stage will end soon...

SPB, poor you, that is ridiculously early.

5.50 here this morning but we seemed to have gained this advance by his complete refusal to nap during the daytime unless I'm pushing him round the park! Which is fine until the promised heatwave kicks in and then I'm toast (quite literally.)

Right, I cant join in cuz my two are solid 6-7.30 sleepers, but I just wanna say well done to you bunch of poor mummys, I couldn't do it, so here is a pat on the back from the wimp that is me!!

StealthPolarBear. You poor thing!
It was my turn for a lie in today so all is well. You have a nap while he's watching telly.

feeling better already - we had a 5.45 start this morning which feels like a positive lie in compared to some. Only mitigating factor is that I am just past 9 weeks pregnant, feeling rough as &^%$ and it was my turn to get up booooooooooo

4.15 this morning
after lots of feeding and pleading I finally got hm to lie down and go back to sleep at 5.10 - only for him to wake me up again at 5.15. He now won't leave me alone for 2 minutes, he will be watching CBeebies when it starts at 6 so I can have a drink and a minute to myself

Hmm, yes an extra hour is great, but I can see your point that 4.30 to 5.30 is hardly the desired wake up time

A "No sparrows" sign?
Fantastic news Indith Just in time for my maternity leave!

MIA Thanks for the tip but I lined his (already thick) curtains with blackout material and then put up velcro blinds. We did get an extra hour - but from 4.30 to 5.30, which was better than nothing but not quite the effect I was after! Suspect I need to rid the guttering of chatty sparrows for maximum effectiveness - any ideas anyone?!

Seriously you need to get some gro anywhere blackout material. It is a portable black out blind. I have curtains and a black out blind, but it still wasn't dark enough. Got some of these a couple of weeks ago and it has really worked. Just put them up each night (they are meant for travel) We have got an extra hour every morning! Worth the £30

Oh and erm, SPB.....got any plans for walking around the woods near yours in August? House buying moving along nicely

yeah but she is only 6 months, you've had over 2 years of it SPB!

Yep, you win. Babies are rubbish!

Only joking. Love them.

OK Indith, you win Don't think anyone can beat 3.30 yet!

Dd firmly believes that 5am is a late morning. Was 3.30 the other day, wide awake and up for the day We are managing to convince her that waking for a feed every 45 mins is slightly unreasonable so she woke hourly last night She is of course only 6 months old so I can forgive most of the night wakings but she has considered 5am morning since birth. You think if I shove her int he same room as her brother his sleep will rub off on her? He usually wakes around 7.30, frequently after 8 at weekends. I love my ds

I woke and couldn't figure out where dd was and why I could see. Took me 10 mins to remember I'd already been up, sent dd to school and put in my contact lenses
Stupid social worker asked me when I thought dd would sleep throguh <hollow laugh>

Its godawful isnt it. Ds has always been an early riser. But can I just say it does improve. Well he has anyway.

Hes 2.4 now and whilst it varies, now and again he doesnt wake till half 7. Usually its more like 7 and often when its my turn to get up with him (like this morning) its 6 (the monkey).
But hey - compared with 5 its like some kind of miracle (and he no longer wakes for up to two hours in the night as well - he did that till he was 2)

Dh often has a cat nap in his van or at his desk. Literally 5 mins and he's bright and breezy. I'd have to have a duvet and a pillow and probably a bed too. And I'd need at least 3 hours!

Yes, I usually feel awful sleeping in the day

Oooh, love sleeping during the day. As soon as DS goes for his nap, the cat and I head back off to bed (not sure how this will work when I return to work...but surely they have to let me sleep? It's a basic human right or something?)

Sleeping in the day always makes me feel tireder (is that a word?).
Cup of coffe and half an hour on here will perk you up.

I just got up again. weird sleeping during the day. I feel all disorientated.

I have to admit being up during the night is harder. DS sometimes wakes but most of the time it's for a quick feed and then straight back to sleep. Hate it when he doesn't re-settle. (Hope I haven't jinxed it now!)

Ok Riven, you win!
I was up v early but went to bed with a couple of syndol at half eight, so not all bad.

dd wakes 4 times a night to be turned. Then pings awake with the sparrows.
Am going back to bed now

Well our ds is usually between 5 and 6 BUT at the mo he's also waking at 1 or 2 for a drink and taking up to half an hour to settle.I was up at 1.30 last night with him,then awake at 5.30.

I'm soooo tired.and it's pissing with rain.having to resort to c beebies (well I'm watching it,he's charging about like a nutter)

I'm not v well at the mo so this is REALLY doing my head in

melmog, you soooo win. Ouch. Sending coffee.

5.45 this morning, after a series of random yelps at 5.05 just to wake me up. The latest since April. He always does this when I post on MN moaning about him, just to show me up.

Yes melmog, you definitely win - but I bet that's no comfort You poor thing

Do I win? Ten past four this morning. It was my turn to get up which means having to bring her downstairs for milk and a sleep on me. When it's dh's turn he goes in, says shut up silly baby, go to sleep, and she does!!!
I think it should always be his turn.

Roll on winter.

well it was 4.30 this morning but as I was in bed at 8 last night it doesn't seem too bad. DS went back to sleep after 45 minutes for once - I couldn't
Desperately hoping it is a summer thing. Also he is getting a bed fairly soon which might make life easier

DS3 15 months often awakens between 5-6am - but thankfully will usually not insist on getting up if I/DH go in, avoid eye contact, do not speak to him, find his dummies (he has 2 ), hand them back to him and leave the room. He will invariable be v cross and scream for about..... oh, dunno, 30 seconds and then go back to sleep! Usually until @ 7am which is fine, obviously (except on a Sunday morning , but, hey?!).
Worth a try maybe for all your early risers??

BTW, DS1 was an early riser as well, still does not need a lot of sleep. DS2 slept A LOT and still does. So surely, like with lots of other behavioural things, personalities come into it as well, non?

We have really early waking here too. 5.30 is about average, has been known to be before 5 though!

Someone on my PN thread has had a couple of 4 something starts this week. I think under 2s are just Not Good in summer months. Bring on winter!

StealthPolarBear - 4.18, oooh, that's a shocker. Oh yes, 5.30 is a treat here too. Bang on 5 here this morning. Bleurgh.

mummypig - do they get any better as they get older or do you have three of them all up at the crack? I only have one and this business is putting me off any more.

I'm not a lentil-weaving type but I was tempted to go to Stonehenge and dance at the thought that I might be halfway through this hell.

It's not just you. Ds3 has been waking up earlier and earlier, and I am getting knackered. But ds1 and ds2 are very 'seasonal' too so I'm not really surprised. Like you, I am looking forward to the nights drawing in. We are past the summer solstice now, hooray .

4.18 this morning
That's the worst so far
Pah at your 5-5.30 5 is usual for me, 5.30 would be a bit of a lie in. Any time before 5 I consider a failure
Am also hoping that as the days get shorter my nights will get longer - DS had 8 hours sleep lasst night (just over) I need that much myself!!

Really just me?!

Did I say 'competitive' in the thread title? Whoops! I did, of course, mean 'supportive'

Aaaarrgh! Between 5 and 5.30 since April. Every bleedin' morning. Nothing works. He laughs in the face of blackout blinds and curtains. I hate the Teletubbies even more now.

Can't wait for the Season of Mist and Mellow Fruitfulness and really dark mornings in the hope it changes (it has to change, surely?!)

It's not just me is it?