Did you send your child to a grammer school?

[CharlotteACavatica]

My eldest starts secondary school NEXT september, i want to send him to a grammer school, his younger brother is unbelievably clever, ds1 is very bright, but (feel bad saying this) he isnt as clever as ds2! But i cant send ds2 and not ds1. Ds2 wont be going for about another 3 years yet, so i figured if i get some extra help for ds1 what are my chances of getting him into a grammer school? How did your child get on?? Did they do better on the entrance exam then you thought or worse? I am keen to gather as much info on grammer education as possible - i want my boys to be stretched to FULL potential!! Any info would be great TIA x

[irises]

Of course you can send one and not the other if one is bright and one isn't.

Our ds is at grammar, having passed the 11 plus with no tutoring, tho' he had some practice papers for a few months before.

He's coped fine & is expected good results

[animula]

If they pass the test, they'll cope with the work. so just let the test decide.

And remember, although some children are brilliant at everything, most have areas they're good at, and areas they aren't, so there is a range of abilities in any given subject, even in a grammar school!

It also doesn't really matter about sending children to different schools. That's you projecting, sorry to say. The important thing is to get your own thinking sorted on that, and to not let it colour how you respond to your children's particular strengths and weaknesses.

Being academically strong isn't the be all and end all. Neither is it a bad thing. They'll both have differences, positive and negative; you have to celebrate what they are as individuals.

With regard to the entrance exam, my opinion is now that, if the exam is NVR and VR, all you need is to make sure they are familiar with the format (and that means buying some commercially available papers in the same format they'll sit) and getting them to do them. Good literacy (lots of reading) and excellent times tables.

If there's a maths paper - make absolutely sure they've covered the National Curriculum for yr 6 by the time they sit the test. You can't count on the school having done that.

If English paper: vocab., spelling, tenses.

[TheBestAManCanGet]

I have friends who have one at a grammar and one at the comp.

I would not assume however that the grammar is automatically the best place for a bright child. Round here it may be the best option for certain bright children but certainly not all. My bright dd would be much happier in many of the local comps than a grammar. I have taught in a grammar and was of the same opinion then.

[purepurple]

I went to a grammar and really wished I hadn't. I passed the 11+ and was sent to the local grammar school while all my friends went to the secondary modern.
I hated it and did quite badly at some of my exams, although i took my English O level a year early.
I think I would have done much better academically at the secondary modern where they had sets and streams.
I threw away my chance to go to sixth form and university.
It is only now at the age of 43 that I have started a degree and am using my brain again ( I was recently awarded a trophy for student of the year)
Going to a grammar school was one of the worst things that ever happened to me.

[Milliways]

DD was the one I thought the brightest (she is 5 years older) and she failed to get into the Grammar, but flew at her Comprehensive and is now enjoying life as a Uni Student.

DS, 5 years later, quietly made it into the Boys Grammar and is loving it there too.

Definately don't worry about different schools for different children.

[TheBestAManCanGet]

I agree there is no such thing as a school that is great for all students.

I work in a comp in a grammar area, we have kids in the comp that I think would be better of in a grammar. We also have stunningly bright students who are Oxbridge material whose parents have chosen to send them to a comp rather than the grammar and they seem to have made the right decision. We also have kids who leave the rather restructive grammar sixth form and join us for their A levels.

[ByTheSea]

IMO, you need the right school for the particular child. DS1 is at our local comp - he is not terribly academic but is very happy at his school. DS2 will be going to a special secondary school with very small classes, which will be great for him. DD1 is about to start at a grammar school in the autumn, which we feel will be the perfect school for her. DD2 is now keen to take the 11+ to go there too, but we have some time yet before we decide (she is about to go into year 4). I think she'll thrive there as well as she is also very academic.

[TheBestAManCanGet]

I think that being academic alone does not mean that you will thrive at a grammar school.

Admittedly Grammar schools will vary and I am only speaking from the point of view of the one I have taught in and the ones I know from watching my friend's children go, working with people who went to grammars and being friends with people who now teach in them.

[seeker]

Don't think about grammar and not-grammar. Think about what school will be best for each child as an individual. Not all grammar schools are the same - my dd is at one where she is thriving, but there is another one nearer to us where I suspect she would have been miserable. Ds is much brighter than she is, but there is a high school in our area where I think he would be happiest - when the time comes we'll visit and decide.

[TheBestAManCanGet]

I totally agree.

Although the choice is a luxury as was said above or on another thread perhaps.

We may have a choice for dd, grammar or local grim comp, unless we move within the next few years. I refuse to coach my dd and I know I have taught some very very bright children who did not get into the grammar who were not coached.

We have a level of income that allows us to pay for independent. I don't want that route for ddm, which is quite a tough decision to make as I suspect she would be happiet in the local independent co-ed school. Lots of her friends are already in the independent system.

So for us it is a choice of a grammar that will not suit dd or the comp with the people who are already bullying her and where she will be left to coast and drift .

[seeker]

And don't automatically dismiss the non-grammar option (not a comprehensive by definition in a grammar school area).(Not saying you are, TBAMCG - I'm addressing the OP Ours judged by results alone looks awful. But then you remember that the "top" 23% have been creamed off to another school, and that the High school takes everyone in its catchment - children with special needs, behavioural difficulties - all comers. Looked at like that, you realize that the results are absolutely amazing. And it adds lots of value in ters of technical subjects, sport, drama ans so on. And generally, academically clever children get good GCSEs.

[TheBestAManCanGet]

I disagree that a comp in a grammar area cannot be truly comprehensive.

It may be different in areas that kids can go to comps striught from primary. But the school in which we teach in a true comp. We lose a few kids every year to the grammar but not many, infact I think this time it was only 2. We get kids coming to us in year 7 and they probably plan to go to the grammar but the kids love it with us they stay.

I suspect there is little difference between a top set in an outstanding comp and that of a grammar. In my area I would say most bright kids would be better of in the comp top set than the gramar to be honest. I think the best thing that grammars have done for our area is to make comps work harder with their top sets so we can compete with them.

[seeker]

In the area where I live, the "top" 25% go to the grammar schools, almost without exception. You can't have a true comprehensive without that 23%. It sounds as if it's differenc where you work.

[TheBestAManCanGet]

Yes it must be different seeker and I think it has been a hard job for the secondaries to get themselves up to scratch and to combat the idea that a grammar is automatically better than a comp. We see ourselves as directly competing with not only grammars but independents and have set out to make ourselves different from them but offering the same quality. It does take a long time though and schools can be very short term in their outlook.

I used to teach in Yorkshire in a comp that had kids removed for grammars and there you could tell that the top % had been creamed off. The top sets were really upper middle ability.

I noticed the trend changing in ours about four to five years ago. Staff used to send their bright children to the grammar, now staff are begging to have their children admitted into our school rather than the grammar.

[MIFLAW]

Don't send a child to grammar if he or she isn't up to scratch, he or she is highly likely to hate it. Seven years is a long time.

[AlliMomma]

We moved to our area of Cheshire to be in the catchment area for the Grammar school all 3 of my girls are going to in September.

As 50% of intelligence is inherited (supposedly), and both my DH and myself being educated to PHD level we knew the girls were going to be fairly intelligent and they are. All 3 passed the entrance examinations with flying colours. But had they not been as bright as they are, I wouldn't have sent them if I felt any of them would struggle. I'd rather them be at the right school offering them the right levels of support for their intelligence.

[CharlotteACavatica]

Thanks for the replys, ive read these and find them very informative - thankyou! I do agree that i need not necassarily send both to grammer just because i want to send one, however, ds1 would benefit greatly from being 'stretched' imo, he has a bad report concerning his attitude in class, and his concentration levels, but his teacher (who does not like ds1 because he takes no interest in her lessons) has recently called a meeting with the head, and myself to discuss how ds1 has passed some recent exams and the SAT's WELL above average - much to his teachers surprise! He does have a good brain, he just needs some damn good teachers to help him use it effectively! I want to do what is best for all my children of course, and if grammer school is NOT it then i will think again, but the general opinion is that grammer schools set a much higher standard for education, attitude, discipline etc. Ds1 gets bored VERY easily and im led to believe that a grammer school would fill his time to an extend were there would be no capacity for boredom!??

[CharlotteACavatica]

extent sorry.

[norflondoner]

grammAr, sorry.

[fsmail]

I work with a girl who was coached at a private primary school to get into a very selective grammer, one of the best in the country. IMO she was bright enough to go to university but dropped out at 16 and lost all interest in academia. She has not stayed in touch with any of her school friends.

I was not put in for grammer school because my elder sister failed and my parents did not want us at separate schools. Both of us went to a true comp and were in top sets for everything. We both still love learning and went on to uni and continue to take courses and enjoy learning. All of our friends were local and we are still in touch. I never felt I lost out at all. I really enjoyed my school.

Top sets in a comp give you confidence, bottom sets in a grammer could work the opposite way. They are not necessarily better!

[thelastresort]

My three DCs are/were at a grammar school (super selective). They were not tutored. I went through the practice papers with them to get them up to speed etc. You can buy the papers from W H Smiths or go on any of the eleven plus websites. If they are bright they will understand the questions, it is just a matter of showing them the quickest way to get to the answer, writing fast, not dithering, leaving questions they don't know and going back at end if they have time etc, that sort of thing.

I would say if they pass the test then they will be certainly able to do the academic work once they are there. It is only the same syllabus as at any other state school!

Which part of the country are you in? Some grammar schools take the top 25%, others the top 2% so obviously some are much harder to get into than others.

State primaries, certainly in my area, are generally not particularly supportive of selective education so will not help/advise you in any way, I am afraid.

My DCs are clever but lazy so it is hard to say whether would thrive at a comprehensive or not. They may do (being top of the class rather than mediocre/bottom at a grammar school) but on the other hand might decide not to do any work and be bottom of the class at a comp. it is hard to say. All I would say is at a grammar school they are actually forced encouraged to work harder than they might actually want to do and so it takes the pressure off you to a certain degree to keep on at them. Lots of people will disagree with this but all I want(ed) was for mine to get the requisite qualifications to give them a choice later on in life. I do sometimes wonder if they would have been better off at a comprehensive school, who knows?

Certainly, one of mine would have done absolutely no work at all, given the choice. Now he is mightly (?sp)grateful he has a set of decent GCSEs/A Levels and soon a degree ( although not much good though now in the present climate...)

[CharlotteACavatica]

Top sets in a comp give you confidence, bottom sets in a grammer could work the opposite way. They are not necessarily better! - VERY good point fsmail! Thanks for that, never thought about it that way......

[thirdname]

Those who say one school may be good for 1 dc but not for the other, how do you know which school is best for your dc???
For dc2 the choise would not be so difficult but with dc1 I just don't know!