Webcams, phone sex, escorts - any thoughts?

[NomNomNom]

Found out recently that DH has been using the above for over a year.

Our history:
married after 5 years
DD born a few months after wedding
now been together 6 years and a bit

He first contacted an escort a month before our wedding and again early this year.

A lot of web cam contact with other women. He had favourites, there is one woman he did stuff with via webcam 8 times.

Most shocking is that he mostly did the webcam stuff at home while I was there and awake. No idea how he managed to hide it.

I found out by reading credit card statement, he gave me login for the website he used for all this. He spent a lot of money when we were struggling financially.

He has been staying in a hotel since I found out and will move into his own place next week.

I've been to CAB to sort out benefits and I have set up regular counselling for myself. He has set up counselling for himself, been to see GP who put him on ADs. We will see a joint counsellor next week or the week after hopefully.

Anything else I need to do? What am I supposed to think about this? He says he doesn't remember most of what he's done and thinks it's mostly porn, whereas I think it's cheating. He also thinks that as he's managed to cut down a lot this year, that's what matters most.

He's also doing the whole 'I'm ill, poor me' victim thing, in my opinion.

I need to keep a clear head and not be sucked in by him as I would give anything for everything to be normal again.

Any thoughts appreciated.

[MrsMargate]

Things never were normal - normal was you not knowing he has no regard for your feelings.

How convenient that he doesn't remember most of it - if he does't remember 'most' how does he know how much 'most' is? If I don't remember something I don't remember how much of it, generally.

Well done for booting him out.

[dignified]

Sorry, i wouldnt buy this ill bollocks nor the not remembering. If hes used escorts youll need to be tested. In fact, id get tested anyway .

[DrSpechemin]

When you say escort does that mean he has been meeting other women and having sex with them?

tbh - all of the above would be deal breakers for me - he has been irresponsible with money when you say you have been struggling.

what does he mean when he says he doesn't remember any of it?

sounds as if you are doing all teh right things - what do you want to achieve by going to joint counselling? do you see it as mediation for seperation or with potential to rebuild your relationship?

[ImSoNotTelling]

Gosh that sounds tough. You have done all the right things from where I'm sitting.

Is good that he is getting counselling and on the ADs.

Keep an open mind and see how you go, I guess.

For me, I have to say, that if I found out DH had been doing these things I don't think I could trust him again. Porn (of the non interactive variety) is a totally differnt ballgame to interacting with people - he has used prostitutes and done stuff on webcam.

I don't buy the "I'm ill" thing. The fact is that being depressed doens't normally mean that you rush out and start paying for sex. That is something that I reckon people are either prepared to do, or not, and I don't think I could be with someone who was prepared to do that.

I am really sorry that this has happened. Take your time, don't let your desire to get your old life back cloud your judgement.

[NomNomNom]

Thank you.

To answer points you have brought up:

I will get an std test. Told him to do the same.

I think there is more. This all came out in dribs and drabs. He only admitted to porn (of which there was hardly any), I found the rest because he gave me his login details.

Re: escorts - he sent messages to at least 2, asking for prices for 30 minutes (so pretty obvious what he wanted to do with them), when/where to meet. He says he hasn't had sex with any other people, but obviously I don't believe that.

I don't know what he means when he says he doesn't remember any of it. He is taking the 'I'm an addict' approach, that's his justification for the extent of it and why it's not clear in his mind.

I think that's bullshit: he used the webcam thing on our wedding day (how?!) -I remember every tiny little detail from that day, so why doesn't he?

Joint counselling: we had some a few months after DD was born and I want to know why he hid all this during that process, plus I want someone else's opinion on reasonable contact with DD, how to move on, what's really going on etc. So yes, mediation for separation, but also if there is any point getting back together. We will live separately for a number of months though, whatever happens in counselling.

Yes, lots of people get depressed. Not all of them pay for sex. He said he didn't see the women on webcam etc as 'real people' which I find is a shocking attitude.

What I find difficult is not having someone with who to share everyday kinds of things, like what DD has been up to, how she slept, what she's learnt. That person in my life is not there anymore as I can't really bother my friends with this.

He also seems to have no interest in how I'm doing or what this has done to my life.

[ImSoNotTelling]

Oh gawd nomnom

On your wedding day? I'm so, so sorry.

It sounds to me as well that there are more incidents than he has told so far. The business about not seeing them as real women, and not having any interest in how you are with all this having happened - it's all about him isn't it. He's just totally selfish.

If I were in your position I would be making long term plans for being apart. Yes do the councelling and everything - but he seems totally self-centred and I don't see how that can change. Maybe having to move out etc will change him. I don't know. But the fact he is going on about how he is ill and not seemingly bothered about how you are is not encouraging.

I can only say how sorry I am. Well done for kicking him out, remember it is his fault that all this has happened. He had a great life with you and DD and he thoroughly cocked it up - you don't owe him anything. You must do what is right for you.

[mophead5]

Whatever you do, do not take back this pathetic excuse for a man. This type of behaviour will not stop.

[Isanotherday]

Hi

What a terrible thing to find out, it will take a long time to process and I think it is brilliant that you are strong enough to put some space between the two of you already.

I'm really worried that your husband sounds like my ex husband. He nearly destroyed me and after we split up I came to the conclusion that he was a sociopath. I found a website called Lovefraud really helpful.
www.lovefraud.com

He too had done stuff with webcams and put sexual adverts on gumtree. We had lots of problems but I thought he would never cheat on me- I was wrong. I found out when he accidently left his email account open. He refused to let me see his phone, so that says it all really. He tried to claim he was bipolar.

My ex moved away and onto another woman. She found my email address and I recently received some emails from her. I was horrified to realise hwas playing the same games. He had not changed his behaviours at all. Here are some excerpts. Apologies for the length:-

'Also in relation to his financial 'woes', he claims to have been ill lately and have been spending a large sum of money on medical treatment. In no way is that true, he did go to the emergency room to see a doctor a few months ago, but he has not followed up on any of his treatment and in fact lied to me that he spent a weekend at rehab (his friend later told me he was at her house the whole time). So really unless he was secretly going off to hospital as I slept in the middle of the night, he has had no medical expenses that I know of. '

'Thank you so much for sending that information on sociopaths on. It's really, really helpful and really puts things into perspective. I know that he's been seeing a psychiatrist for being 'bipolar', but at the same time I almost felthe was using it as a tool of manipulation. After reading the descriptions about this, I feel like I was reading a personality sketch someone had done on XXX'

'You were right I did end upgetting back together with XXX because he always manages to find a way to wriggle back into your life. I currently find myself again completely devastated by the way he is able to simultaneously treat me as someone he truly loves and that I'm so important to him, but then behind my back he manages to be meeting up with other women.'

'I just feel that no matter how I explain things to my friends they'll never truly understand whereas you have seen it all, I'm sure, from XXX. Our relationship has escalated beyond belief and I am so embarassed with myself as to what has happened. I sincerely hope that you find the man that you deserve and that you get to experience what real love is, and knowing that you've been able to remove him from your life (not entirely, but near enough) gives me hope that I can regain who I was before I met him. Once again I apologise if this email is completely random and I don't really know what I hope to gain from sending it, but I just needed to write to someone who understands what it's like to know XXX.'

Good luck, I guess what I'm trying to say is please get out

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Nom,

re your comment:-

"Joint counselling: we had some a few months after DD was born and I want to know why he hid all this during that process, plus I want someone else's opinion on reasonable contact with DD, how to move on, what's really going on etc. So yes, mediation for separation, but also if there is any point getting back together. We will live separately for a number of months though, whatever happens in counselling".

When did you first discover that he had contacted an escort a month before your wedding?. Did you not want to back out then?.

This has never been "normal", his relationship with you has been a sham from the start. How can he "not remember" what he has done. The "I'm ill, poor me" is manipulation as well.

The very fact as well that you had joint counselling only a few months post wedding is very worrying and shows a relationship on very shaky ground.

I would not now have joint counselling at all in your circumstances. If he was unable to be honest previously (he is at the very least a consummate liar) then he could well be dishonest again. I don't think you'll ever get a straight answer from him as to why he has acted like this let alone an apology.

I honestly cannot see any point in getting back together because you will just end up at square one again and even more hurt than you are now. It delays you actually finding someone else.

How do you know too he has actually set up any counselling for his own self?.

Mediation is totally separate from joint counselling and may smooth the wheels re permanent separation. You need to separate from him completely before he drags you and your child down any further.

[NomNomNom]

Thanks for your viewpoints.

Isanotherday: thanks for telling me your story, it must have been very hard to go through that and know that he did not change. Will check out the website.

Attila: I discovered everything quite recently, literally knew nothing until then, so yes, the contact with escort before the wedding makes me want to back out.

It has never been a normal relationship. I don't know what else he has lied about over the course of the last few years.

I don't think doing counselling necessarily means a relationship is on shaky ground - in my view acknowledging that there is a problem and attempting to sort it out means that you are taking responsibility. It is a shame that we needed counselling such a short time after the wedding, but in general, I don't think counselling after 5 years in a relationship is too bad.

Of course he could have lied to me about his own counselling. I have no way of knowing what is true and what isn't.

[ItsGraceAgain]

Isanotherday, you've clearly been through the mill and have shown great wisdom in helping his current victim. I just wanted to applaud what you did there

NomNomNom - plot and plan if you have to. Call in assistance from all and sundry - the secrecy of addictions wrecks lives! Get rid of him. He can have a relationship with his webcam, while you get on with rediscovering the nicer world out here.

[Isanotherday]

Thanks ItsGrace I don't think he's moved on again just yet as he has made contact twice in the last fortnight. Obviously no one to keep him occupied at the moment....is approaching 3 years since I left him!!!

NomNomNom- the timings of our relationships are similar. Have thought of the flawed reasons why I stayed with him, in case you are thinking along the same lines at the moment.

Thought he was mentally ill-he was just in a different way to what I thought

My tendency to rescue- some people can?t be fixed

Worry that without me something awful might happen to him- it didn?t he moved on to his next victim

He could be charming and fun- so can lots of other men but they don?t come with all the other crap

Thinking that it takes two to make a relationship work- it does only one of us was trying the other was doing whatever suited him

Belief that life isn?t a fairytale- shouldn?t be a nightmare either

Feeling that I had made my bed (by marrying him with the knowledge that all was not what it should be) so should lie in it- people actually thought I was brave to leave rather than stay in an unhappy relationship

Feeling embarrassed and like a failure- No real stigma in divorce anymore, people leave relationships over much less

Thinking if I could just get over the latest hurdle I would be rewarded with a happy ending- the issues never stopped and I myself was becoming more anxious, irritable, tired, unsociable, upset etc

Only telling people small parts of what was happening, so different friends and family members held different pieces of the whole jigsaw- if they knew the full extent of what was happening they would have told me to leave him as opposed to standard advice to ?talk to him?, ?go to relate? etc

We didn't have a child together, but incidentally I had a close friend at Uni whose parents seperated when she was a child because her Dad used a prostitute. She was very close to her Mum, saw her Dad occasionally and had little respect for him.

It took me about 7 months of mulling things over to make the final break. Just keep reading and talking to people and keep the distance between you two.

[mrL1]

to many misconceptions about escorts im sorry to say and their services some dont have sex

[ImSoNotTelling]

[NomNomNom]

Thank you, Isanotherday, that list of thoughts is exactly what is going through my head.

The problem is that we do have a child, and our decisions affect her life too. She's still little, so from what I have read it is better for her to see her dad frequently for small amounts of time, which means that I will see him quite often.

And it is just so frustrating that he has made these particular decisions, which result in her not living with both her parents and her life being so different from how I'd hoped it would turn out.

Itsgraceagain - I am trying to call in assistance, but the problem is that I don't have that many friends because I always preferred to spend time with DH. (He didn't manipulate me so I'd alienate all my friends, I've always been more of a one-to-one person when it comes to friends.) So now the problem is that the days are just so long.

Dittany - we will live separately for a while, I am certain of this much. I just don't know for how long or how to organise contact between him and DD.

And also if not all escorts have sex, I'd still want to know why he was planning to meet up with women without telling me about it.

[EricNorthmansmistress]

He has cheated on you, repeatedly. It's not salvageable. Please don't go there again. What a cunt

[EricNorthmansmistress]

Yeah MrL1 a married man needs to book an escort for half an hour of company. Riiiiiight.

[wrenny1969]

Sounds as if your husband's been dabbling or at least thinking about it. Unless he needs women to accompany him to events? Even then 30 minutes seems like a one way street.

[Isanotherday]

Hi

It sounds like your child is a big concern at the moment. Maybe seek advice from others who have gone through divorces that involve children.
The fact that your child is young is perhaps a reason to make the break sooner rather than later.

However, if your husband does have some kind of personality disorder you will want to plan your moves carefully to avoid being manipulated.

The following links may give a starting point...was thinking that you have a lot to take in at the moment so have done some googling for you:-

www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/12/21/letters-to-lovefraud-tips-for-co-parenting-with-a-sociopath

www.lovefraud.com/blog/2008/05/05/10-tactics-for-child-custody-battles-with-sociopaths

www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/06/15/co-parenting-with-a-sociopath

www.lovefraud.com/blog/2006/07/09/divorce-custody-and-personality-disorder

www.lovefraud.com/blog/2006/05/07/sociopaths-children-and-the-legal-system

counsellingresource.com/ask-the-psychologist/2009/01/13/divorcing-a-sociopath/

Also found some links on the perils of couples therapy:

www.powercommunicating.com/articles/The%20Sociopath%20In%20Couples%20Therapy.pdf

www.sott.net/articles/show/206909-Therapy-only-furthers-sociopath-s-agenda

No idea if those links will work as links- hopefully you can cut and paste them!

[Isanotherday]

www.lovefraud.com/blog/2006/07/09/divorce-custody-and-personality-disorders

[SolidGoldBrass]

Counselling for you is a good idea, OP. It would help if you could work out where you got the idea that you need a man (or that you need this particular tosspot) to be complete. It's pretty obvious that he has never been very nice to you, so don't waste a second more time thinking about ways to 'fix' him or make him love you. He doesn't love you and he never will.
WRT him seeing DD, yes little and often is recommended, but you will not have to let him in your house, he can take her out - and if you like, someone else can deal with handovers.