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i ended it after your advice but he's used it against me and i'm scared i could lose my baby

(43 Posts)
gruffalosmother Sat 16-Feb-13 08:09:08

In January i posted under thread name 'rebuilding relationship with abusive ex' . (sorry not sure how to link im on phone). You were all so wonderful with your support and advice and i saw what a mistake it had been to allow my ex into my home and to become close to him again. I'm a bit worried about posting this as we are in court , so uf you think i shouldnt be putting this info on here please tell me! Anyway, i told him that i am sorry we can never be a family , it was a mistake etc. He was arsey with me but basically dropped me as just quick as he had suddenly announced his love for me...
Me and dc live in a safe house that we rent from housing association after leaving refuge. So for this reason it was a pretty big error to let him come here.
There is no social services involvement atm but they are aware of issues in past. When the stupid decision was made to let him come round he promised getting would never tell anyone as he knew it could have implications with us losing house, social services.
We are in court second hearing soon and i got paper work through and he has bloody told them .
I couldn't stop shaking/crying when i read it. Im so scared they will take my precious baby into care. That it will make me look like all allegations i have made are made up and im a shit mum.
What can i do? It was such a mistake but i just cannot lose my baby.

DrinkFeckArseGirls Sun 17-Feb-13 11:02:24

Sorry to say that but not only you put yourself at risk but possibly also other women with children using the safe house after you. It is not anymore a 'safe house' if someone knows what address it's at confused. Clearly you have no grasp of how serious your situation is and SS are right to question your judgment. Invited him for tea? Really? hmm

MsGee Sun 17-Feb-13 08:50:06

Above is very good advice - you need to be seen to be taking safety planning seriously and taking responsibility for it.

They may move you if you've broken your tenancy agreement. There is little point in you being in the safe house now anyway.

shadesofwhite Sun 17-Feb-13 08:44:54

Doublelife gives great advice

I don't know what ss or housing will do, BUT I do know the best thing for you and your child is to tell them now what happened, honestly and fully, and ask for their help. Do anything to make sure your child stays with you, and is safe in the authorities eyes (not just your own). Ask them to move you, commit to not seeing him again, not at all and for any reason. Admit you allowed him to get under your defenses and admit you made a huge mistake. Ask them to help you make a plan so you don't do it ever again.

Time is precious, the more you wait the more that bastard is constructing his load of crap to go against you. You will be labeled as 'un able to make the right decisions' for your DD BUT you were vulnerable and he knows you veeeery well. I'm sorry but if you really want to do this on your own just be Prepared for anything and I'm pretty sure you do not want that to happen. I'd doesn't matter where you are moved to, accept it, it doesn't have to be for life. Please don't give this man a chance to ruin your lives. Stand up to him now!

MsGee Sun 17-Feb-13 08:36:31

You should have a safety plan on leaving the refuge. Presumably that deals with contact and not sharing your location.

Refuge services are at breaking point, second stage housing too. They don't provide these services unless you are high risk. I think you are in great denial. Ask them for help. SS wot take your child but they will rightly question your ability to stick to a safety plan and prioritise your child's safety.

By revealing the location if the safe house you are putting other future tenants at risk.

Sorry if this is harsh but you've had a great deal of support and revealing the location if a safe house is very serious IMHO.

Your solicitor is assuming this is a normal break up.

SS are telling you this is a break up where the children are at risk.

If the children are at risk arranging contact will not be seen as a good thing as SS will assume you are unable to walk away from this violent man.

You need your solicitor to know you were in a refuge & now in a safe house so he/she can advise you appropriately. If you are scared of talking to SS can you talk to your solicitor - ensuring they have all the facts?

shadesofwhite Sun 17-Feb-13 08:17:22

Hi Gruffalosmother, the SS automatically gave me an altimatum as soon as he was arrested(it was at midnight when the assulted happened-attempting murder). I couldn't bear the thought of losing my DD and they had observed me with DD lots of time before so they knew I was a good mother to her. My STBXH is know to be manipulative and its very easy to fall for it. I remember he'd Take us away to the Grove Hotel in Watford for a weekend of pampering just to say sorry and to confess his unconditional love grin .
He is threatening to sue me for custody so I'm still in Shock but the SS are on my side. (who would give a murderer a child to care for?) well, I'm hoping not and never. I'm being strong, we are in a good refuge and I feel safe here (not sure I'll be ready to leave anytime soon even if they find us a home smile .

Hope all goes well for you. If you had a good SW I'd suggest you involve her again and please be honest with her. They will initially critisize you for going back(they did to me) but they'll get down to support the best interests of the child. You can be assured this will be your last warning if they go ahead to give evidence of your relationship with DD(this is very crucial given that your DD is under 2). FWIK, if the SS, GP and HV are on your side, you H will have to sweat twice hard to prove you are an unfit mother he'll come up with a load of unexisting crap

All the best, be strong.

izzyizin Sat 16-Feb-13 15:25:47

As you are free to invite who you want into your home, your tenancy wont be affected by you having entertained your ex although, of course, any benefits you may be in receipt of may be affected if you allow guests to stay overnight.

With regard to SS, it doesn't appear they have any involvment other than what came about due your call to them and if they any have concerns about the welfare of your dd I would have thought they'd have made them known by now.

You're best advised to act on Cogito's advice re presenting your side of the story in Court and get back in touch with one of the workers at the refuge and ask for ongoing support through the Court proceedings - or make contact with your local Women's Aid offices which you can locate here: www.womensaid.org.uk

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Sat 16-Feb-13 14:18:55

Ps don't wait til court! Really don't... Get on top of this now, you are in a bad situation with ex unless you do something. You need to get proactive and don't let him call all the shots... It's time to get a bit of fight in you and stop this man ruling your life and your child's life...

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Sat 16-Feb-13 14:14:03

Gruffalosmother hello.

I remember all the times I thought 'THIS time it's going to be different, he really is showing remorse/ committing to changing/ understanding his behaviour is damaged' etc etc etc.

And I spent 8 years minimising his behaviour and normalising that it was ok for him to treat me like shit, and accepting it in isolation and not seeing how if he can do that to me... Then maybe he's not safe to be around, for anyone.

I was 'lucky' in that I had ds towards the end of that 8 yrs and I think may e I was a bit further down the road emotionally than you were/ are (just guessing here!). I used to read posts on here and be so shocked by the awful situations other women were in, but couldn't even call my own relationship 'abusive' as I felt it was too strong a word, was more complicated than that, I'd created the situation so I was to blame etc etc etc. was a bug moment for me when I called him abusive on here, and for me that was the start of getting away from him.

I'm going to tell you something cos I think it might help you to hear it, but I'm not proud of it at all, never said it like this before. I lived in the same flat as him for over a year, KNOWING I was scared for myself and ds, knowing he was a risk. For 12 months or more I spent every second on high alert, watching, waiting, adrenalin pounding, never sleeping more than a few minutes, never letting my baby away from my side, as that's the only way I felt I could protect my ds. All because I thought that what I was feeling and living through somehow wasn't true to anyone else but me, and I couldn't get out of the situation.

Obviously was more complicated than that, as it always is, but I denied my feelings and reality to such an extent that I lived like that, with my child, when deep down, underneath all the confusion and head fuckery I knew he wasn't safe with my child (or me). It's taken me 2 years to admit that and I find it very hard to do so... So believe me, I know what it's like to make wrong decisions when your brain just can't cope and can't get free of the head fuckery of him.

(I should say the 'more to it' was that I was becoming physically disabled at the time and I physically needed help 24/7 and I couldn't get anyone to listen when I tried to tell them how ill I was and how much help I needed and no it wasn't in my head I actually needed physical help... All tied into the abuse, I was so used to no one hearing my pain, I became really badly disabled before I could get anyone to listen. They way you talk changes, if you think you deserve nothing but shut treatment, people can't hear how bad things are. So I was physically completely reliant on him and until I got a diagnosis and carers in place, I had the choice of A. Not being able to feed/ wash self & baby, or B. get fed & washed etc when his majesty felt like it but enough to survive but run the risk of him hurting me every day. Fucking awful choice and am so so so so glad me & ds not in that situation any more.

Am assuming we don't have that bit in common but felt I had to explain a bit why I stayed so long after I knew I needed to get out.

But even when everything was so terrible, I still sort of clung to him & believed his reality and his words more than what was really happening - cos his world wasn't so terrifying as the real one. Who wants to believe that the person you love can really be so cruel, so hateful, so manipulative, so Dangerous? How can someone do familiar to you, be actually really properly dangerous? But the truth is, they can.

Anyway, a bit of a digression BUT my point is, it's so so hard to unlink yourself with a very skilled abuser. It's like you're stuck all over with Velcro and you have to unlink every single hook one bit at a time. But I also know that ss and other organisations know this, which is good really. They know how difficult it is and that's why SS are so vigilant about going back to your abuser... They know it's easy to do, and so they have to keep the child's safety first always, cos it's a high risk situation for you & your child. It also means they won't be surprised and shocked this set back has happened, which is why I think you need to be completely open with them. They need to know that you know it was a mistake and you are committed to making it right... And you're learning from it, not going to repeat this pattern again & again.

So id tell them what's happened, why, and what you'd like to do about it, like move, get more councelling etc... And ask for their help too. I am shocked your councellor said you're done btw... Did you tell them what you've posted here?

fuzzywuzzy Sat 16-Feb-13 13:46:19

My children have supported contact with ex.

This looks set to stop as he was told to do a DVIP programme which he spectacularly failed, the DVIP & CAFCASS (we amazingly got a CAFCASS officer who gives a crap about the children) are very concerned that the abuse is continuing via contact and everyone has recommended indirect contact and current contact stop immediately.

So it does not always increase.

You need a lawyer who knows what they're doing, which your current one either doesn't or you played down the danger you were in and they assumed from the information you gave it was a normal breakdown of a relationship.

You need to call ss and speak to them and ask for help, you need to call women's aid and tell them what's happening and ask for help, start with women's aid and follow their advice.

You need to stop all contact with ex unless its thro solicitors regarding contact.

You consciously make the choices your child does not. If the authorities appear abrupt it's because they're worried about your child. Someone needs to worry about your child's safety and if you're in denial (what is 'violence wasn't serious'? All violence is serious) then you're clearly not best placed to protect your child.

gruffalosmother Sat 16-Feb-13 13:29:49

Doublelife- thank you. And yes to nearly all those things. We talked and e was lovely and showed remorse and said sorry for first time and i though you know what, maybe he can change. Im terrified telling ss could backfire and they will def move us.maybe i should wait til court to see what happens.

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Sat 16-Feb-13 13:18:43

SS can be really scary, as they don't look on you as the natural protector of your child, & not necessarily the person who's going to put your child first at all times. It's really scary for your actions to be interpreted in that way... But they have to be like that, they've seen what happens when women don't protect themselves and their children.

When you're with an abusive partner, your 'programming' gets totally haywire and you don't make the right decisions for yourself, and therefore your child. It's what happens and it's not your fault you're in this state. BUT it's up to you what you do now... You have to ignore all the haywire stuff that sends your decisions and gut feel off.

So your gut is telling you that you have to be reasonable and fair to him? That he's not really a risk to your dc, just to you? But if everyone else (the authorities, not your pathetic solicitor that is) is telling you the opposite... Think about it. Your judgement is compromised, so don't rely on it at the moment... Rely on people who've seen this before.

Look at the clues... You're in a safe house, you think you get one of these without the man being UNSAFE? Ss told you not to let him near your child? Sometimes they don't have to know the full story to know that it's safer for your dc to be protected from him. You don't in your gut believe any of this? Well it doesn't matter, just go through the motions as if you do... Behave like he's a threat to your child and you. Your emotional journey may have to lag behind, and that's ok in the short term (though you need to work on this as a matter of priority, heal yourself and get all those wires straight again)

I don't know what ss or housing will do, BUT I do know the best thing for you and your child is to tell them now what happened, honestly and fully, and ask for their help. Do anything to make sure your child stays with you, and is safe in the authorities eyes (not just your own). Ask them to move you, commit to not seeing him again, not at all and for any reason. Admit you allowed him to get under your defenses and admit you made a huge mistake. Ask them to help you make a plan so you don't do it ever again.

Dont take all the blame for it though, as I suspect you are, I don't know your background but I do know abusive relationships (way too well I'm afraid!)... Think about the run up to asking him round, what happened, what did he say & do? How did you feel? What buttons were being pressed? Did he make you feel he was changed, and on your side? That you didn't have to run anymore? That you were closer to him than anyone else? That only he could help you? Did he rewrite what had happened? So you believed his 'reality' and 'realised' you and everyone supporting you had over reacted, and that he wasn't a danger, not like other men with other women in your situation are?

If any if those questions rings true then you are on your way to realising how much control he has over you, your reality and your mind and emotions... And that's a good step, it's showing you how much work you have to do to get yourself back, own your own mind and heart and body again. You're only ever going to get truly free if you can see how not free you are now.

Floggingmolly Sat 16-Feb-13 13:08:44

the violence was never serious. So how come you were placed in a safe house? And then you invite him round for tea! You're completely in denial sad

gruffalosmother Sat 16-Feb-13 12:57:13

Pirate hat - thanks for your reply. I have just finished 10 months worth of counselling because my counsellor says i don't need it any more. Women's aid said due to funding cuts they can't help onceyou leave.

gruffalosmother Sat 16-Feb-13 12:52:59

Hi shadesofwhite . Thank u for posting.im sorry for what you went.through. What did social services do? Did they help you? I hope you find somewhere to live soon and that you are finding refuge ok. Thank you for being understanding what its like. It doesn't seem logical yo want anything to do with an abuser let alone help them to have a relationship with dd bt its so complicated because they are expert at manipulating and making u feel sorry for them. Now its all been thrown back in my face.
Cogito - i hadn't moved into refuge or safe house at the time but i did inform solicitor that it was an abusive relationship. Maybe i was ill advised. Solicitor said if it goes to court they wilgive access anyway so to stop it going to court i offered supervised contact. Nw its gone to court anyway and contact has sort of been established so they won't stop it now. Only increase.

PirateHat Sat 16-Feb-13 12:27:59

OP, you have been through such a lot, I feel for you.

But you need to start takling some control of your life. You made a bad decision, you recognise it as that and you won't be doing it again. You have to make that clear rather than hope your abusive ex keeps your secrets for you.

Yes maybe SS were a bit abrupt with you (they were with me as well because they are totally overworked), doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to them. Women's Aid don't chase you, that is not how they work, you have to ask them for help. Have you asked them for counselling? That way you will have a person who is familiar with the way abusers behave, who you can be totally honest with. Sometimes they can support you by accompanying you to meetings or talking through how you should phrase things.

Stop blaming everyone else, you will feel a lot better for taking steps to sort your life out rather than being scared.

(I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh)

McBalls Sat 16-Feb-13 11:40:13

You are extremely unlikely to lose custody of your child, but SS will probably now become involved again.
I realise this would be upsetting for you but it's not really about you but your child. Someone needs to ensure your child is in a safe environment and if you find yourself unable at times to do that then SS involvement is necessary.

shadesofwhite Sat 16-Feb-13 11:27:58

I'm sorry OP for what you are going through. I don't have any sound advice but I hope you will not lose your DD, I totally understand what you mean about your ex manipulating you in to seeing him again and allowing him to see your DD. It happened to me after SS separated us only that I was living with my toxic sister and "his manipulation and actions of sorry" made me go back to even more abuse. I knew I was taking a huge risk with DD but I couldn't handle living with my toxic S. The abuse did happen again I was worried sick about losing my DD. At that point I had to be honest about his manipulation and my desperation. Well 'yes!' SS totally understood and now we're in a refuge awaiting to be housed.

Just be honest, we are human beings and are bound to make mistakes now and then. Let this be your last mistake of letting an abusive man near you. I'm sure the SS and courts deal with similar situations often, and I doubt if they'd let your DD be under your abusive ex care. Be strong, wishing you all the best.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 16-Feb-13 11:24:36

" The solicitor said it is better for child that they have relationship with both parents so i just followed the advice i was given."

Did you tell the solicitor this man was aggressive/violent etc? Did the solicitor know you'd had to be placed in a safe house because of DV? If they knew all of this and still said it was better to maintain contact then you should get a different solicitor.

nickelbabe Sat 16-Feb-13 10:51:03

I'm just worried that he'll come for you sad

gruffalosmother Sat 16-Feb-13 10:08:50

Nickel - since i left refuge i have had absolutely no contact with them or support from any sort of worker. This is the 5th place that my dd has lived in and she's not even 2. I don't think either of us would cope well with another move.

gruffalosmother Sat 16-Feb-13 10:02:01

Cogito - when things were really kicking off i went to a solicitor straight away and they sent out a letter asking ex about contact. The solicitor said it is better for child that they have relationship with both parents so i just followed the advice i was given.

fuzzywuzzy Sat 16-Feb-13 10:01:56

I refused very violent ex contact with my children. Nobody held anything against me, I had doctors notes and police records to back me up, ss came round to ensure he was not there & called my solicitor to ensure I really was divorcing him and keeping my children safe.

I didn't hold it against ss, they were trying to ensure my children were safe.

Moving forward, tell women's aid and what you've done & stick closely to the truth in reality as well.

Why on earth do you think a violent ex would live and cover for you, when he could tell the truth & get a better (for him) outcome?

Have you considered doing a freedom programme course ask women's aid to point you to one in your area.

gruffalosmother Sat 16-Feb-13 09:58:02

Figgy - yes you are right my judgement is all.over the shop. As soon as get turns on charm again i forget what a bastard he is.
Fuzzy- i can totally see why they would be concerned but because each case is diff i thought they were unfair. It is bad that we were in refuge but the violence was never serious. More intimation and threats than physical stuff .

fuzzywuzzy Sat 16-Feb-13 09:55:11

Refusing contact isn't seen as bad so long as you have authorities and facts to back you up.

The worst that can happen in the immediate future is court awards him supervised contact at a contact centre.

Allowing him contact and chasing him up and arranging it in your house shows you're not really worried about him posing a threat to you or your child.

Of course give your behaviour the courts will follow what you have begun and progress contact till he has a rightly equal amount of contact.

They will have taken their cue from you.

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