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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relationships

How to break this vicious cycle?

20 replies

SneezyPanda · 27/11/2012 21:17

Lately DH and I have got into a really bad pattern of fighting. It always follows the same pattern, and it never gets anywhere. I'll try to keep it brief, but sorry if it gets long..

A typical argument might start if he's being off with me for no reason. Like huffing and rolling his eyes if I talk, staring at the computer and not listening to me.. If I ask if he's ok he just grunts/mumbles something. I ask if he's ok with me (racking my brains to think of something that might have pissed him off, which probably sounds odd but i do think - If he's not pissed off with me, why would he take it out on me?) Also, if we need to talk about something(like something from a previous fight that never got resolved)

Anyway, if I try to talk to him when he's not in the mood, he'll call me names, tell me I'm being irritating.. if I don't immediately drop it, or dare to ask why he has to call me names, he'll storm off, calling me a pain in the arse etc, slam doors in my face (literally pushing me out of the door with the door etc) He will then need to be alone to "process things" Now this is fair enough, I'm a talker so I want to discuss things, fix them, then be normal again as quickly as possible. He can't talk about things, just wants to be left alone then carry on as normal. But him pushing me away makes me feel really rejected, really sad, and really helpless as it leaves me alone with the kids (3 and 1) and unable to get my own head space to calm down. So I either stay quiet and get upset, or I follow him and ask him to please calm down and talk things through, not immediately if he doesn't want to, but to calm down and not make me feel hated. He will just shout again, roll his eyes as I'm talking, generally act like a teenager being scolded, even though I'm not shouting/demanding, I'm just saying "This is scary for me, I understand you want to be alone but please don't call me names. Please calm down and don't hurt me like this."

I can really understand if he needs time to calm down, but lately he's needing/taking 6, 7, 8 hours of shutting me out, refusing to talk,which is just unbearable for me. Sometimes I'm able to keep myself calm and not say anything through fear of provoking him, but sometimes (embarrassingly) I'm not so calm and either ask him if we can drop this and make up, or (usually if he rejects that idea with more eyerolling and huffing) just break down and tell him he's a shit for being this mean to me Blush When he does finally decide he's calm, he'll say sorry, but if I try to explain why I was upset (not aggressively but just say "you blowing up at me really scared me, have I done something to deserve that? Or are you stressed about something else?" I'll get this whole eyeroll-rant of "ohmygod are you still talking why can't you let this go!" Sad

It never gets resolved as if i try to bring up anything the whole cycle starts again. I guess I just have to shut up and put up with being grumped/sworn at - at that doesn't sit right at all.

From his perspective, he probably thinks I'm trying to make him talk when he doesn't want to, he says this is why he gets aggressive (it's always my fault somehow). In fights, he's said his life is ruined because he had to move for our family (from his country to mine which is a massive thing and i know it must be so hard for him), he wants to leave, he should never have comes, that he can't support me emotionally, I shouldn't count on him for support. It leaves me feeling pretty empty.

I know he's made a lot of sacrifices for our family, but I lived with him in his country for 5 years and never resorted to calling him names, attacking him for no reason. I'm just about at my limit of what I can take, I always feel like there's an atmosphere. If I'm happy, bouncy Stepford wife-ish he will be happy too, but as soon as I'm sad/tired/need something he shuts down. It's all a bit sad.

Anyway, I think I should either try not ever asking him if he's ok and just acting the happy stepford wife around him, or if he does get angry, let him walk away for as many hours as he needs, ignore the insults or lack of proper apology just for an easy life. Or just somehow be calmer when he's upset maybe? Less caring? Clearly stuck for ideas here Smile I guess I'm asking if anyone's experienced this, is there any solution? I understand homesickness must be a massive part of this but I'm at a loss how to help him if he's treating me like this. I can't even raise the subject (apparently).

Sorry for such a long rambling post. Thanks to anyone who answers Smile

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dequoisagitil · 27/11/2012 21:31

He's emotionally abusing you, my friend. Homesickness is no excuse.

He's got you dancing for him, trying to understand, trying to help, while he sulks, verbally abuses you, gives you the silent treatment and refuses to engage. He just wants you to stfu and do what he wants without giving you anything.

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MajesticWhine · 27/11/2012 21:37

This sounds horrible. No I definitely don't think you should ignore the insults in favour of a quiet life. It is completely unacceptable.
When did this start - was it simply precipitated by moving - or could there be something else going on? Some other reason for him to be distancing himself from you. Was everything fine previously?
Something about his behaviour is making you very vulnerable (understandably), and this in turn makes him afraid and angry. And him being angry is making you more needy and vulnerable. So it is a vicious circle. I'm not sure what the answer is though, because you have every right to want to talk to him and not have him treat you like shit. What would happen if you respond by quite calmly saying, It's completely unacceptable for you to eyeroll/swear/slam doors and I am not going to put up with it. And then just give him nothing else, don't ask him to talk, don't try and make up, don't strike up conversation with him. What would happen?

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Lueji · 27/11/2012 21:44

He is a shit for being that mean to you.

Even if he didn't like discussing things, he could easily tell you calmly that it's him, not you, and that he was in a bad mood or something.

Rolling eyes and the sort is supposed to make you feel little.

Tbh, I'd be the one sending him off until he's in a better mood. Sort of go away and don't come back until you can treat me with respect.

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SolidGoldYESBROKEMYSPACEBAR · 27/11/2012 21:55

I think you need to kick him out TBH. It's not going to get any better, and if he is already at the stage of slamming doors on you to push you out of a room then he's going to escalate to punching and kicking you till you shut up fairly soon.

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porridgelover · 27/11/2012 22:16

^^ exactly what dequoisagitil said. I was half way through your post and saying that to myself.

Emotional abuse. It wont get better. Stop giving him power over you, you are going to need it all to help get yourself out of this.
If you dont believe me, get to your library and read this.
I wish I had read it before it got as bad as it did.

Keep posting; there are a lot of wise women here who have gone through what you are in, and who have come out stronger.

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SneezyPanda · 27/11/2012 23:30

Thank you for the replies, it feels like a bit of a shock to hear people's reactions.. I think somehow I've started to feel like I'm emotionally abusing him because he needs this time alone, it's my "fault" that he doesn't get that time, it's my "fault" because I don't drop the subject, it's my "fault" that we're here. I was really scared that people were going to say I should give him more space or not make him explain/apologise for his anger/insults. Blush

It's tough because it's obviously not like this all the time, and he's great at helping out at home when he's here, will let me have a lie in if I'm tired, doesn't have a problem with me going out (although actually very recently he's been a bit shirty about that, but I wouldn't let it stop me going), so when things are good I feel like I'm over-reacting. But then of course when things get bad again, I don't know what to think, except I don't want the relationship to be like this.

Majestic It has got noticeably worse since moving, but has really been there since my 1st pregnancy, when we were living in his country. Before we got married he was always really fair (read, normal), if he did something to upset me, he would talk it through with me, try to see my side and apologise. During that pregnancy though, I really did feel he'd changed. We had one bad fight where I found out he'd lied about meeting up with a female friend for drinks one night. He said he was going to meet a male friend, but I found out later through mutual friends that he'd actually met a girl he used to work with. I tried to explain to him that if he'd said he was going to meet her, I would have said, "great, say hello to her, have a nice time," but it was the fact he'd lied to me that had really hurt, and that he'd continued to lie until I'd told him how I knew. He said he was sorry for hurting me but he didn't want to tell me because he thought I would go crazy, that I'd stop him going, and it was basically just going to cause trouble. I asked if he'd not thought how much it would hurt me to know he'd lied, and that was when he shut down. He told me again it was my fault, I told him it was ridiculous to say that and even if he thought I'd be angry he was his own person, it would be his decision, I could hardly lock him in the wardrobe to stop him going! He stormed out, and any time since then when this topic has come up (for eg next time he went out drinking and I asked him if it really was a bloke this time, he blew up, shut down and walked out) Said it was my fault for not letting it go, that it was my job to forgive and forget. I didn't back down and said it was his job to let me feel I could trust him again. He said he didn't know how to do that and it was my responsibility to get over it Hmm It had me doubting myself, and as I was full of pregnancy hormones, so far from family, I didn't really know what to think and I had nowhere to escape to. It's really been since then. Maybe at that fight I should have just let it go, I don't know.

Sorry, that was an essay wasn't it Blush

majestic again, I have reached this point where I stand there silently fuming and think "I don't bloody well deserve to be treated like this!" and tell him that I think it's totally unacceptable to talk to me like this, hurt me like this and I don't know how he expects me to put up with it. His response is either silence, an eyeroll and huff, or telling me he wouldn't have to treat me like this if I would just leave him alone.

In the worst moments, and this is so hard to write because I'm so ashamed of myself, I listen to him saying how his life is ruined, that he hates me, while I'm asking him to calm down and stop saying things he can't take back and something cracks inside and I start scratching myself, punching my own body and head, the way he's talking to me hurts me so much I don't know how to cope with that feeling so I just start hurting myself. In front of him. I am so ashamed. He doesn't try to stop me. He calls me a freak. I'm sorry, this is hard to write about. What is happening to me Sad

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HotDAMNlifeisgood · 27/11/2012 23:35

He's emotionally abusing you.

The fact that your default assumption when he's being a shit to you is to wonder what you may have done to deserve this says it all, really.

You don't deserve it: he's just being a shit to you because he wants to.

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HotDAMNlifeisgood · 27/11/2012 23:37

Sweetheart, I am sorry that you self-harm when his behaviour triggers you.

I would just like to point out that you staying with a man who treats you so badly is another form of self-harm.

Please leave: it is the first step on your path to freedom from abuse and from your own self-hatred.

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AnyFuckingDude · 27/11/2012 23:39

There is only one way to break this cycle. I hope you are brave enough to take it.

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GrimAndHumourlessAndEven · 27/11/2012 23:46

sweetheart we can support you as you formulate an escape plan

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DuskatDawn · 28/11/2012 01:05

Please don't feel ashamed! You have nothing to be ashamed of. You self-harm because of the intensity of the feelings he arouses when he verbally abuses you. He is the one who is shameful; he is using your insecurity to hurt you. No human being deserves to be treated the way he is treating you. He behaves despicably and makes you believe that it is your fault? First, he withdraws emotionally (to "process things") then verbally trashes you and then watches without doing anything when he witnesses the effects of the pain he has caused? He is the lowest of the low. You do not deserve to be treated this way; nothing is your fault. It is his fault that he is an abuser. If you can't love yourself enough, at the moment, to get rid of him, at least keep posting here where you will find people who will give you good advice and maybe help to counteract the poison he is feeding you.

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thatsnotmynamereally · 28/11/2012 06:23

sneezy I had to wince a bit as I read your story but so glad you can come here for some good advice. I've been living with what I now realize is a similar type of man we have twisted everything around to try and support him and he is never satisfied, we too are an international couple and have swapped countries and it does throw up a lot of issues. I always thought that if I just tried harder I could make it work 20 years on and he still isn't satisfied.

I wanted to mention, in retrospect for us things got bad/worse/awful when DS was born. I can't believe how cruel he was sometimes, not physically but making it clear that I wasn't doing a good job. And it's gone on from there. Can you confront him on his behaviour? I wish that I had years ago, and put it back onto him that he was responsible for his moods, rather than having blamed myself for not being good enough.

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porridgelover · 28/11/2012 10:46

sneezy, thats the appalling but typical picture of the victim of an abusive partner. We try and try to twist ourselves around as clearly we must be wrong. So often, the flags are there before there are any DC but they definitely come out once there are children.
My theory is that 1)when the female diverts some of her attention from the partner to the DC, the partner resents this and takes it out on her and 2) having DC puts the woman in a position where she is needs more support and is less likely to leave (''because of the children'').

I wouldn't advocate confronting him TBH. It never rarely works. You cannot make him change, it suits him that you are miserable, he has no impetus to change while you are still with him.

All you can do is listen to the small voice inside you what the truth is.
It's telling you this is not OK. It is saying that you have a right to a voice, to have your opinions heard and respected, to have your own interests, to be respected, to say no if you want.

It's a big step to think that you may leave your relationship. Keep posting so that you can hear other people tell you the truth; it will help to keep you sane and strong while you decide what to do.

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Anniegetyourgun · 28/11/2012 11:39

You're not a freak, you're just massively, massively frustrated and don't know how to express it. You're wasting your time trying to reason with him; he's not open to reason, because if he were it might stop him getting his own way. None so deaf as those who are not willing to hear.

I used to get that shit from XH about being trapped in a country he hated. Every time we argued he'd say "it's not working" and talk about going back to his birthplace. At first I would cry and plead, after a couple of years I'd reason calmly, then eventually I told him to go ahead. Once I'd got to the stage of offering to buy his ticket he stopped saying it.

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SneezyPanda · 28/11/2012 17:53

Thanks everyone, a lot to think about there! It's really interesting to hear from other people in international marriages, but sorry to hear that it does happen to other people too.

thatsnot can I send you a hug of solidarity? Sorry to hear you're going through a similar thing. Different countries/homesickness throw so much more into the mix that I don't even know where to look for the problem.

Annie Used that line quite often lately! Strangely he always comes up with an excuse why he can't, even though he's the one suggesting it in the first place.. Hmm

Thanks to everyone for the support, It really really means a lot.

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MadAboutHotChoc · 28/11/2012 18:36

It sounds like a miserable situation.

While reading your OP, I wondered if he is having an affair (possibly with the woman you mentioned)...the fact that his behaviour changed when he met that woman is a huge red flag.

Men who cheat often become grumpy, distant, critical and pick fights - because they're leading a double life, feel guilty and mostly its to justify their cheating.

is he possessive with his phone and laptop?

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desparatelyseekingsomething · 28/11/2012 19:07

He sounds exactly like my oh - I am sorry that I cannot offer you any advice - except to say that I know how you feel. By ignoring you he is effectively "telling you off" and so you feel as if you have done something wrong - not because you have but because (I think) we are brought up to feel that we must have done something wrong to be treated like this.

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desparatelyseekingsomething · 28/11/2012 19:09

meant to add that I do not think that it necessarily means that he is having an affair - it could just be that he feels that you are not treating him as he (mistakenly) believes that he deserves to be treated (ie he just wants you to pander to his needs all the time).

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SneezyPanda · 28/11/2012 19:18

MadAbout I can't speak for then, but I would be surprised if he's still having an affair with her, as she lives 6000 miles away Grin That was something I worried about a little when we lived in his country, but since we've come back here it's less of a worry as he prefers to stay home, and English isn't his first language, so he's shy about talking to anyone.. I could be wrong but I don't feel worried about that at the moment.

He's not at all possessive with his phone, leaves fb/email etc open. But yes, the rest of your post is why I was worried sick when we were over there.

desperately I'm so sorry to hear your going through this too Sad That is exactly how it feels. If he loves me, why would he think it's ok to treat me like that? My parents had quite a volatile marriage towards the end, there was a lot of atmosphere/shouting/blaming then they split. DH says his parents fight a lot but they're still together, no intention of breaking up. Maybe he just thinks it's fine to shout horrible things then pretend that everything's ok if that's what he grew up with?

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SneezyPanda · 28/11/2012 19:28

dusk thank you for writing that, it's weird to see it written down but that's exactly what's happening isn't it. Grr.

porridge yes, there's definitely a lot of twisting going on. It seems to him he's made this big sacrifice of moving here for me (I had pnd after my 1st, then surprise pregnancy with my 2nd so moved back here to have my 2nd so I'd have the family support that I didn't have in his country - not exactly moving back on a whim, or because I missed rain and baked beans!) so I should be grateful, forgiving, not pushing, not expecting.. If he does something hurtful and I raise it, his reaction is "I moved here for you, gave up everything and still can't do anything right, I might as well go back." Sad

desperately I'm not sure about the pandering, I feel more like he wants me to leave him alone - no emotional support, avoids me like the plague if I'm sad or tired, won't talk about anything he perceives as "heavy". I think he'd like me to be happily chirping away in the background making absolutely no demands on him. That feels pretty lonely for me.

Thanks again, today has been a pretty nice day, typically, so doubting myself a bit. I am keeping all of your comments in mind and they are really helping me sort things out in my head Smile

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