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massive aggument with wife...what to do?

(87 Posts)
lightning02 Thu 04-Oct-12 15:03:07

My wife an I had a massive argument earler in the week, over money and holidays. The argument got a bit heated and I ended up venting my frustration by saying a few true but spiteful things, which I apologised for and I do genuinely feel so bad for.-(even though their was a lot of truth.)

Since then, she wont generate any conversation with me. Just one word answers. We generally speak throughout the day through text or calls, but nothing. she wont reply to my texts. when we did speak, she told me she wanted to just run away!

I love my wife deeply, and it makes me feel sick to the stomach to live with bad feeling..

I'd like other peoples points of view, on the best way of getting this back on track. I feel whatever i do, it doesnt seem to help.

should i just leave her alone to get over it? or try some other approach?

avenueone Tue 09-Oct-12 20:55:19

Abitwobblynow really concerned by some of your views, if you are not even speaking to someone and need things (other than sex) resolving why would you have sex with them? - to me that would be very strange.
So I don't see it as a ban but as not appropriate. Your posts make me think you feel she should have sex as and when he says because she loves him - she might just not love him.
My first post talks about how his wife seems to be unhappy with things that may not be all down to the OP and that they need to talk about a whole range of issues.
The first set of posts gave really good supportive advice to the OP and all he could come back with was the sex issue which is why the tone of the posts changed and then you came in.

Offred Tue 09-Oct-12 17:14:25

Or is that not what you were saying? Were you just not into it? If so why would you fake it? Again quite intimacy destroying.

Offred Tue 09-Oct-12 17:12:44

Yes, I think they are both being unhelpful in a variety of ways but one partner behaving unreasonably isn't a license for the other to tit-for-tat and this I think is in danger of that.

Ok someone might consent to sex to get a new kitchen, bit different (and i think horribly manipulative and really damaging) from your spouse expecting sex in return for the new kitchen. I'm not entirely sure your husband would know you were "giving in" in order to "pay" him for buying you stuff... Maybe he'll get the sex and you won't get your kitchen, what a lovely relationship! I think that kind of idiocy thing absolutely destroys intimacy.

DuelingFanjo Tue 09-Oct-12 16:44:03

"then it got onto the normal marital things........like she only has a libido when drunk"

why does this have anything to do with holiays and debt.

You really need to apologise for making it about sex.
Tell her you know you have been an arse to even bring that up in the middle of another argument.
If you are getting turned down often then perhaps she is too tired, upset, turned-off... maybe there are some home truths she could discuss with you about your behaviour which may need sorting out before she feels like having sex with you? Any ideas what they might be?

spookytoo Tue 09-Oct-12 16:36:22

But DW is being pretty unpleasant, that's not to say OP's comments to her during the argument don't deserve that, but I would suggest they sit down and discuss whether divorce is the way to go.

It's hard to see that she is trying to resolve their marriage with this behaviour, more likely the opposite.

But counselling might solve the problems, but as is stated elsewhere, they must both want it.

spookytoo Tue 09-Oct-12 16:31:56

Love does not ever mean having sex when you don't want to

Hmmm, guilty guilty!

We are looking at buying a new house (yippee) so last night in bed I was pondering the dark kitchen units with the light granite tops or the reddish units with the black granite, but DH was feeling amorous.

So I managed my well honed gasps and grunts. Then when DH rolled over to go to sleep returned to my pondering.

Sorry, but some things are just better than sex (occasionally).

Abitwobblynow Tue 09-Oct-12 15:51:07

OK Offred so we are not that much in disagreement.

I think the wife in this case is using the silent treatment in order to not hear uncomfortable stuff that she doesn't want to own; in other words she is controlling him.

I dont' think he should be trying to appease her with flowers or backing down. I think he should be assuring her that he loves her, whilst repeating what he thinks/wants, in a way that is not sneering or judgemental. And his need to feel closer to her is a perfectly good and wonderful desire. She can CHOOSE to disagree, and she can CHOOSE not to comply. But she does need to hear him/he has every right to say what he wants to say, and he mustn't back down from Mrs Spoilt and Huffy!

Offred Mon 08-Oct-12 09:42:06

I don't think a healthy sex life within a marriage is one where the sex is completely disconnected to the state of the rest of the relationship and therefore unaffected by what is occurring within it either.

I also think that sometimes consenting to sex even though you don't really feel like it and then enjoying it is something entirely different from having a spouse (male or female) who feels angry at you when you don't want to have sex i.e. it isn't that you don't happen to really feel like it but that you are arguing, not speaking and don't want it.

If you, instead of consenting when you didn't really feel like it, said no it wouldn't be ok for your partner to be angry at you then either. Those scenarios are not sex, they are violation.

As far as things go for the op I think it is worrying that his wife doesn't seem to be able to manage sex when she is not drunk. I can see why that's really hurtful for him. However I wonder what is behind this. Why does she not appear to want sex with him at all? How long has that been going on? Why does he think it is manipulative behaviour rather than her just not wanting sex? Why is he angry about it? Why does she want to run away?

I still think it all comes back to the idea of communication and that neither of them seem to be able to communicate properly with each other. There will be ways they are each being unreasonable but they don't seem to be pulling together as much as pulling apart.

Offred Mon 08-Oct-12 09:10:46

I don't think sex is a violation. I think imposing sex on others is a violation.

Abitwobblynow Mon 08-Oct-12 09:05:21

sorry, 'then sometimes if I don't want to' ...

Abitwobblynow Mon 08-Oct-12 09:01:42

Love does not ever mean having sex when you don't want to a bit wobbly. That is anti-love. You have some very weird ideas and I happen to know your relationship is a very long way from healthy.

Telling me I am wierd and pathologising my views, does not invalidate the worth of what I am saying Offred.
I acknowledge with great pain that I am in an unhealthy relationship that is ended, but it was not always unloving and we once had a wonderful marriage [crying].

You talk about sex as though it is a violation. Maybe you need to rethink your ideas?
Sex is NOT a violation, when in a loving context like an ordinary, everyday relationship . Haven't you ever not really been into it, maybe a bit distracted about something else, and then it ended up being one of your best????? How is 'not being too into it' (wanting) become FORCE in your mind?

If I love someone and I trust that they love me, if I have entered into a vow (OK, contract if you don't like the thought of vows) to love and cherish someone, then sometimes if I want to, it is an act of LOVE to respond to that person's upspoken wish for - connection, reassurance, soothing - who knows?

ESPECIALLY as I know that I am going to end up enjoying it smile! Why do you assume that sex is ALWAYS a power issue? That is rather sad. I believe it to be a connection/communication issue. Why is that strange?

Offred Mon 08-Oct-12 08:48:45

And which part of my posts said sex is bastard men scratching their itch or sex is unimportant? Stop putting words in my mouth.

I said sex is part of the relationship I.e. not independent of it and therefore you can't expect sex to be unaffected by the quality of the relationship. I did not say sex was unimportant or just about men.

Offred Mon 08-Oct-12 08:45:55

"Women prefer talking" crap, crap, crap, misogynistic crap.

Communication is an essential part of a relationship between equals. A lack of communication means the relationship hurts the people involved. Sometimes society will teach men not to talk because it also teaches them concurrent beliefs about male superiority which mean communication in a couple is not necessary as it is a hierarchy not a relationship. Both men and women find real communication quite difficult on the whole because it is quite difficult to have open and honest communication and joint decision-making.

Offred Mon 08-Oct-12 08:41:29

Love does not ever mean having sex when you don't want to a bit wobbly. That is anti-love. You have some very weird ideas and I happen to know your relationship is a very long way from healthy.

I have not ever written anywhere that spitefully withholding sex is ok. Do not misquote me.

I am not writing that on this thread.

I am saying that I don't think that is what the wife here is doing. I am not saying that people do not ever spitefully withhold sex or that if they do it is ok.

He has said she is not speaking to him and wants to run away - in that situation why would someone want to have sex with the person they don't want to speak to and want to run away from? and if they didn't want to then why would that actually be spiteful withholding of sex?

I don't think it is in anyway acceptable to feel angry at your wife for not wanting to have sex with you when you are fighting, IF that is what is going on here then that isn't right.

Abitwobblynow Mon 08-Oct-12 08:29:41

(and I acknowledge his right not to be intimate with a person he doesn't want to be intimate with).

What I am taking issue with you, is that love is not a feeling. Sometimes love means doing something for someone else that you don't feel like doing, because you know it's important to them, because you can put yourself in their shoes and know they need that closeness and reassurance.

We do it with our children a thousand times a day, after all.

Abitwobblynow Mon 08-Oct-12 08:25:17

Offred, come on.

Sex is a REALLY important bonding thing in relationships. It isn't just bastard men stratching their itch. It is a really important way to express reassurance love and closeness without words. Just because women prefer talking, doesn't mean that we should dismiss how important sex is, and how important it is to men who aren't great with words.

I am currently being punished with no sex, and it IS abuse. No two ways about it.

Abitwobblynow Mon 08-Oct-12 08:22:16

Lightning, your wife is being unreasonable.

NOW is the time for you to put your foot down and say you and she are going to counselling. She needs to hear a few truths. Truth said with love is still love, and when she is reassured that you DO love her despite her not being perfect, she might feel safe enough to start looking at that stuff.

You bending over backwards and letting her have her hurt feelings way will really sour your relationship.

Offred Sun 07-Oct-12 23:53:45

I don't even get why you think it is even ok to be angry at someone for not wanting sex. Ok, fine for deliberately withholding in order to get something or to win an argument or teach a lesson, that isnt very nice but to be angry because someone doesn't want it, I don't see how that is in any way healthy. If you can find examples of where I've written to women "yeah, you are totally justified for being really pissed off how dare your husband not want to have sex he's got no right to not want sex" then maybe you could justify that accusation you are levelling at me. I've only known one woman be actually angry at a lack of sex on here and I had a low opinion of that too because fundamentally everyone is entitled to refuse sex if they want to, it doesn't have to be justified and no-one is entitled to have sex ever.

Offred Sun 07-Oct-12 23:38:59

*Whether what that person is upset about is reasonable or not,

Offred Sun 07-Oct-12 23:38:01

No I said being angry at someone because they don't want to have sex with you when you are arguing is abusive behaviour. There is nothing sexist in that statement. Healthy people who feel sexually rejected feel upset, healthy people don't expect sex from someone who is not speaking to them and who has said they want to run away, no matter whether what the person is upset about it is not ok to expect sex from someone who isn't even speaking to you or to be angry at them because they aren't providing it.

We've only got one post about the supposed sex ban/dictation of sex life so there may be unfortunate wording I don't know. All I said was that worried me and I've explained three times why it did. I'm not sure why you still are not understanding? This is nothing to do with the op being a man who has a quiet sex life it is to do with that post appearing to say that he was angry that the wife he wasn't speaking to in the marriage that had communication problems wasn't having sex with him and that he interpreted that as manipulative.

OneMoreChap Sun 07-Oct-12 23:05:14

Offred

You said being angry for someone not wanting sex is abusive. Plenty of posters her complain their DH/DP doesn't want sex. They seem pretty cross about it. By your lights, they are abusive. Goose/gander?

Lizzabadger Sun 07-Oct-12 21:57:43

Does your wife use Mumsnet?

Offred Sun 07-Oct-12 21:29:14

No Sarah that that behaviour would be abusive.

Don't get your point one more chap. This person is not complaining that his sex life is quiet in this post but accusing his wife of manipulatively withholding sex. I don't think that is the most likely scenario because they are arguing, why does he think sex would carry on as normal in that context? It wouldn't make a difference if he was she it is not healthy to feel angry that your spouse isn't having sex with you during a period where you aren't speaking to each other.

I have sympathy for him other than that. I think it is a valid point to make. Just why would she want to have sex with him when she doesn't want to speak to him and why is this making him angry instead of upset which is a more healthy reaction to feeling sexually rejected?

OneMoreChap Sun 07-Oct-12 18:37:15

Offred
It could also be that she is using sex as a weapon and calculatedly withdrawing it although I'd consider this less likely.

Thanks for sharing that.

To be angry at someone for not wanting sex is a. Abusive and b. The best thing to do if you want to ensure they never want to have sex with you again.

make sure you share that with the next woman who posts here complaining about a quiet sex life.

avenueone Sun 07-Oct-12 18:09:19

Thanks Sarah really kind of you.
If me and a partner are struggling financially then I would expect to sit down together to discuss the problem and plan things moving forward not just be `told' by my partner we are not doing something. But I would never put myself in a position where my partner held the purse strings and decided what we spend the money on anyway.
In this instance she may be spending too much and I am sure there are genuine financial problems that need to be chatted through in a more mature way.

As someone else has said, sex is only part of a relationship and IMO as great as sex is, the love and care, companionship and team work are also part of a relationship should me more of a focus esp. at this time.

I can't remember the last time I wanted to jump into bed and `make love' with someone who I wasn't really on speaking terms with.... to claim she is banning sex and this is wrong suggests he has a right to it at all times, which no one does.

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