Mumsnet Talk

Yes I think most children will be aware of the word narrator from preschool/nursery/reception.

Don't most reception children come across the (spoken) word narrator when practising their first Christmas play?

Why would you expect anyone to be able to pronounce a word they have never met before (heard spoken) correctly

I'm not going to show that word to my daughter. I don't think she's likely to come across it for a couple of years unless someone makes a point of showing it to her. But if she sounded out n-a-r-a-t-o-r instead of naraytor, (at the age of four) I'd be inclined to leave her to it. If she did it when she was older I'd probably tell her that's not how it's pronounced.

Why do we say narrator, but narratives?

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that in some dialetics/accents people do say 'narraytives'. After all, I say 'leeverage', Yanks say 'leverage' (and change the meaning of the word)

People across the globe pronounce English words in lots of different ways. However, thanks to the magic of phonics, they can all read the same words and ascribe (roughly) the same meaning to them

masha!

Why do we say narrator, but narratives?

My daughter could probably read a good deal of those. If there weren't so damn many of them I'd ask her. I don't think she know how to read "thought"
. She's never seen the word ought I don't think she's heard it either. I don't know what she'd make of the word narrator. In fact, if I didn't know the word myself I don't know what I'd make of it either.

https://www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/Letters%20and%20Sounds-7.pdf

Listen, just chill.

Focus on your child's understanding of the stories/books/non-fiction text.

Good readers, which both my children are, includes enjoyment of reading and understanding and remembering what they are reading. Not just being able to tell 'read' lists of words.

Many children learn to read very quickly but struggle a little bit at a later stage (like DS2) because they are sight reading and struggle to read words such as 'suddenly', 'organising', 'colourful' etc whilst others (such as DS1) who are much more confident at phonics will be able to decode even very difficult words. In my experience, just support their enjoyment of reading, encourage independent reading for pleasure, get some good, exciting books for them at the library. Let them choose what they want to read.

'merely, Peter, fever and lever' are not split vowel word, masha. They are polysyllabic and so are 'read' quite differently from monosyllabic words. As any well phonics taught child will know. They will also know that in monosyllabic words the 'ere' spelling can represent /air/ or /eer/.

They will also have had sufficient practice at spelling these words for the recall of them to become automatised by the muscle memory of the unique 'feel' of the written word.

It strikes me that the real problem with with learning to spell is ignorance of the English alphabetic code. An ignorance which you consistently demonstrate.

never, there, were, where
look as if they should have the same sound as words which spell the /ee/ sound with the split digraph <e-e> (even, these, here, sphere, merely, Peter, fever, lever).

They are troublesome until children have learnt to recognise them as whole words.

All spellings which undermine the main English spelling patterns are troublesome.

is there as split e in never, there, here, were and where in mashaworld too?

There is in mashaworld, mrz

there isn't a split e in even

PS
The split long e (even, these, here) is tricky not only because of 'there, where, were'.
The habit of generally not doubling a 'v' (ever, never) is unhelpful too.

Masha Bell

Among the 300 most used English words, 190 are perfectly decodable, although some of tricky ones (there, where, were) undermine some of them (even, these, here).

In the first 100 most HF words, 42 are not entirely decodable:
the, he, be, we, me, she,
of, to, was, want, all, call, one, said,
you, by, my, only, come, could, do, down, into, look, now, other, right, some, there, two, when, what, where, which, who, why, your,
are, have, before, more, were,

In next 200, 55 are clearly tricky:
another, any, many, saw, water, small, laughed,
bear, great, head, ready,
ever, never, every, eyes,
find, friends, giant, I’ll, I’m, key, live, river,
people, pulled, put, thought, through, were, work, would,
coming, everyone, gone,
most, mother, oh, once,
grow, how, know, snow, town, window,
book, food, good, room, school, soon, too, took, door,
Mr Mrs

Another 13 are slightly so (partly depending on accent):
after, asked, can’t, fast, last, plants
animals, dragon, magic,
clothes, cold, old, told

The other 190 are regular for reading (but many, such as 'they' not for spelling) and can all be used for teaching decoding:
a, am, an, and, as, at, back, bad, can, cat, dad, gran, grandad, had, has, hat, man, rabbit, ran, sat, than, that, that’s,
came, gave, made, make, place, take, same, name, baby,
away, day, may, play, say, way,
car, dark, garden, hard, park,

bed, best, better, eggs, end, fell, get, help, let, let’s, next, red, tell, them, then, very, well, went, yes, her,
been, feet, green, keep, need, queen, see, sleep, three, tree, trees,
each, eat, sea, tea, please, even, here, these,

big, children, did, didn’t, different, fish, him, his, if, in, is, it, it’s, its, king, little, miss, still, thing, things, think, this, will, wind, wish, with,
birds, first, girl,
inside, like, liked, time, I, I’ve, cried, night, right, by, fly, my,

box, dog, fox, from, got, hot, long, lots, no, not, of, off, on, so, stop, stopped, top, floppy, across, along,
cold, old, told,
go, going, home, over, clothes,
or, for, horse, morning,
found, house, mouse, our, out, round, around, shouted, about, boy,

but, duck, fun, just, much, mum, must, run, sun, under, up, us, jumped, suddenly,
use,
their, they, new, again, air, because, began, boat, window.

I am working on spelling of course.
It just seems that reading therefore isn't being targeted for improvement.

Is that normal for a good reader?

DS1 is in reception and can read all reception high frequency words and most year 1 and 2 words. He still brings them home but after discussion with his teacher the plan is not for him to learn to read them because the teacher already knows he knows them but to learn to spell the words instead so it is an exercise in improving his writing skills instead.

So are children now meant to cover Letters and Sounds Phases 1-4 in reception (or the equivalent)?

Yes I figured the Ginn was harder.
I've had books 30+ years old sent home (with pages missing).

Silly as it sounds Ginn 360 stage 5 are higher that ORT stage 6 (both are whole word schemes so might explain wht teacher is sending home sight words).

Thanks!
Which leads to another question

There are only a couple of words in that list I think she would struggle with, through and mouse sprang out. But everything else she has read.

So should her teacher be stretching her reading further than this? Her scheme books are easy, but erratic (ORT 6 and Ginn 360 5).

All of a sudden I am feeling uncertain.

https://www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/Letters%20and%20Sounds-7.pdf

Oh!
Oh again.
Have you a link to the current words mrz?