Nurseries lying about development to look good for Ofsted

(30 Posts)
twiggles Sat 08-Jan-11 22:18:09

A nursery manager said to me she is trying to get all the children to be the same standard. Since when are all individuals the same? Why not start from where the child is.
No way, according to the nursery teachers in this area. If a child is bright they receive little attention. The manager said she starts them low on the development curves so she can show an "upward development curve to Ofsted". She pretends the nursery has "developed the child" in different areas, when the child has already achieved these developments, so her nursery looks good in the eyes of Ofsted and receives a good Ofsted rating. She doesn't bother trying to develop children beyond the six developmental EYFS milestones. So bright children are not being developed from where they are individually because the nursery gains nothing from it! Unfortunately, it is not just one nursery manager like this, but a problem in this whole borough. How can one stop this rot?

cory Mon 21-Jan-13 08:17:09

Both my children were graded rather lower in infants than I thought was consistent with what I knew of their development. It had nothing to do with the school cheating- what we were judging were totally different things. I judged them on what I knew they could do on their best days, in the comfort on their own home, with 1:1 and no distractions, and possibly with more than a bit of subconscious prompting from me. The school judged them on what they could do in a classroom setting, consistently, surrounded by other children competing for attention. Until they could manage this, then in the school's eye they could not read. Until they could demonstrate it, it could not be recorded. Teaching them to demonstrate it in a less sheltered atmosphere, as far as I was concerned, did constitute developing them individually.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sun 20-Jan-13 20:35:17

i'll be waiting with my party poppers!!!

mrz Sun 20-Jan-13 20:03:53

We can expect the OP to return around Burn's Night 2014

HecateWhoopass Sun 20-Jan-13 20:01:32

How do you know this? I assume you must work in the nursery or something, for the manager to have said this to you. And for what purpose did they disclose information which, if you chose to report to ofsted, would have dropped them in the shit.

You must be a very trusted person to them.

And what is your evidence that this is the same in all nurseries in your borough (and beyond?) ?

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sun 20-Jan-13 19:57:59

I am now officially freaked by that!!

mrz Sun 20-Jan-13 19:57:11

Yes 8th Jan 2011 15th Jan 2012 and 20th Jan 2013

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sun 20-Jan-13 19:55:01

Is this like an annual full moon thing?

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sun 20-Jan-13 19:54:19

Blimey, didn't spot that..

It was originally started two years ago?? And then a year ago and then now??

Am I reading that right?

Kyrptonite Sun 20-Jan-13 19:53:55

I have to put children down as lower than their age sometimes because that is the stage they are at. On the other hand I have 24 month olds at a 40-60+ in some areas so mark it down accordingly.

No one I know in a professional capacity would deliberately do this to make a nursery look better. You've posted this in primary education as well and tbh it's shite.

mrz Sun 20-Jan-13 19:51:16

Almost a year ago ...

mrz Sun 20-Jan-13 19:50:22

You will notice I wasn't deleted on this thread wink

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sun 20-Jan-13 19:47:36

I'm fascinated by this and want to read more.

Could you provide a link to your evidence please??

Feenie Sun 20-Jan-13 13:04:47

Some teachers admit they're cheating and don't take the reports seriously and write them to impress inspectors.

Shred of evidence/link please?

twiggles Sun 20-Jan-13 10:57:41

Whatever your child is like, many primary schools and nurseries are pretending children start ofe on the low end of the scale, so they can pretend to inspectors of private and state schools that the child has developed only because of their teaching. If your child's advanced, many schools in wealthy areas take it out on the child. They won't bother giving the child attention, because the child's advanced, so they let the child coast downwards. But they give reports in writing about the child that pretend the child has started off at a low point and then reached the average point expected due to the teaching at the school, when the report should say that the child was able to read or write when the child started at the school and due to the school giving the child little attention, the child has coasted downwards. That is what many schools do so they can pretend they have developed everything in the child, they want all children to be the same standard, like a photocopier. Poor children. Some teachers admit they're cheating and don't take the reports seriously and write them to impress inspectors. This is happending all over the show and I can't understand why the inspectors are allowing them to get away with it. If parents start grading teachers in the school every three months the teachers won't be able to hide what's going on to the inspectors and teachers who are pretending might stop. We need more teachers that are more honest and better trained please.

My nursery tracks where individual children are on the EYFS twice a year, but we do it for internal planning purposes, not for Ofsted.
We meet as a team and look for any patterns emerging I.e. lack of progress of the cohort/girls/individual children in creative development, then discuss ways to develop provision to address this.
It sounds like an odd thing to reduce then inflate a child's ability and doesn't achieve anything either.

camdancer Wed 09-May-12 17:40:54

I did that with DH just so he got a couple of milestones for himself. Almost 5 years later he still remembers that he heard DS's first word and saw his first steps. It meant a lot to him and didn't cause me any problems. I'd say that was a pretty lovely thing to do.

5318008 Wed 09-May-12 17:14:58

That is not crap it's good practice

Expand on why you think it's crap please

TiggyD Wed 09-May-12 17:10:04

Why is that bad Morethan?

morethanpotatoprints Wed 09-May-12 14:25:06

You think this is bad, what they tell the parents imo is wose. My friend teaches childcare in a local college. In several settings her students have been told not to tell the parents when they have walked or spoke first word or been to the toilet for the first time. They were told their blanket statement was to be "x almost did xyz today and if you watch them they may do it for you" what crap. Just to make sure parents don't feel like they have missed a milestone.

mrz Sat 28-Jan-12 17:54:34

it's a good story though

mrz Sat 28-Jan-12 17:53:06

Very interesting especially the bit about the six developmental milestones ... doesn't she know they are intended for the end of reception not nursery? Sounds as if someone hasn't a clue what they are talking about hmm

purepurple Tue 17-Jan-12 20:21:13

Ofsted inspections are more about meeting the welfare requirements than judging educational standards
ofsted
'Ofsted inspectors ask themselves 'what's it like for a child here'

camdancer Tue 17-Jan-12 08:15:44

The way you are talking is as if this is systemic. I only have real experience of one setting and I've also never heard of upward development curves. The preschool I'm involved in does questionnaires to find out what parents think so that we can make our provision better and we ask all parents. I know because I sent them out and read them when they came back. It has nothing to do with Ofsted. If they like what we do, then great, but an inspection every 4 years isn't as important as the children with us now.

TiggyD Mon 16-Jan-12 21:21:36

I've never heard anybody talk about "upwards development curves" in any nursery. Is it a school thing? The EYFS gets divided into 4 sections. The first one is titled A unique child. Very much the opposite of what you describe. In my experience ofsted are only interest in what you are doing for the children in your care, not the results of children who have just left. There are no league tables for nurseries, just 3 grades and a fail.
If you think what the nursery manager said was so terrible, why are you talking to us about it? Tell ofsted.

twiggles Sun 15-Jan-12 22:17:53

Maybe Ofsted hasn't wised up to the fact that nurseries and schools are pretending that children are very dumb when they start because all they're concerned with is showing a development curve for Ofsted. So they're not recording what an individual child is like. They're recording what Ofsted want to hear in order for the nursery or school to get a good Ofsted rating!

Parents opinion is another joke. The nurseries and schools make it difficult for parents to get hold of questionnaires except to parents they think are going to say something good. It's possible some forms might be filled in by staff rather than parents. And parents who have complaints about a school or nursery usually don't say anthing because they know they risk being bullied if they do.

Is that fair? No, the system isn't working. Schools and nurseries are the system beyond belief. They're only interested in their rating and they'll do anything for it. There's got to be a better way than this. Schools and nurseries are making mince meat of parents.

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