What percentage of women have debilitating/semi-debilitating conditions during pregnancy? or, Why does career advice for women having kids tend to ignore the pregnancy period?

[ardenbird]

I'm trying to figure out if I'm just massively unlucky, or if I could have been better prepared if I'd looked in the right place...

I thought I was doing good. Before TTC, I read a lot of career advice and spoke to several more senior women. The advice all concentrated on the post-natal period: be prepared for sleepless nights, get flexible working hours if possible, consider issues regarding breastfeeding and pumping/freezing milk, and be ready for "life with kids" where you can't attend meetings from 5-7pm or pop out for last-minute business trips and such. The only mention of the pregnancy period was the first trimester's fatigue and nausea, often presented in a light-hearted or amusing manner, as this would also correspond with not yet telling work about your condition, with the impression once this initial trial was over the next worry was the baby. Every once and while some advice would mention bed rest or serious complications, but with the caveat that it was "very rare".

So I arranged my ML to start on the due date (latest possible allowed) to get the most time off when sleep-deprived, saved up annual holiday to get time off before the due date and will tack it onto the end as well (giving me nearly 5 months off with pay), was confident that I would have flexible working hours and can probably bring the baby into work some days, and put in an application such that in the 6 months after my return from ML my duties would be such that I can work mostly from home. As I work partly in a laboratory environment, I knew that pregnancy would impact some things there were chemicals I'd have to avoid but I also checked on this and replaced the most dangerous item in my workflow with something I could work with.

I'm still happy with these arrangements, but what I was unprepared for was the pregnancy period itself. I've had a series of issues starting at the second trimester, including SPD, which have massively impacted my ability to do my job. With the limitations on my abilities, I've probably already delayed my career progression by 1-2 years, and this is without even a baby yet -- and talking with senior women suggested that ML and caring for a baby would give a 2-3 year delay. What is frustrating is that there I things I could have put in place, just like I did for the post natal period, that could have mitigated (although not erased) some of this impact, had I been aware of the potential for such debilitating effects.

I'm wondering why I never ran across any advice about this period. Is it just that such issues are really rare? But in reading now pregnancy-things (which, perhaps I should have read before, rather than exclusively pregnancy+career things), I see information like 50-60% of women develop carpal tunnel. Given how prevalent typing is in all professions, this strikes me as a high incidence of a work-impacting condition. I found a paper (link) that says that 50% of pregnant women have at least one complication, and they seemed not even to count things like SPD, carpal tunnel, and sciatia that don't present a problem for the baby and produce only (potentially debilitating) pain. Among the 8 women at work I've discussed things with since I became pregnant: 2 volunteered no information about pregnancy complications; 1 had mild SPD and pre-eclampsia; 1 was put on bed rest from 5 months; 2 had severe SPD to the extent of needing mobility aids; and 2 had moderate SPD. Even if you add in the 5 more senior women I didn't speak with (and I'm only sure 2 of them have had kids), that's still a pretty high rate of work-impacting issues. Interestingly, only the woman with pre-eclampsia mentioned her condition before I too became pregnant and she did not mention the SPD until I developed it. Perhaps my obvious mobility issues have drawn out preferentially SPD-stories, but the fact is, they were there to draw out...

So could I have been better prepared? Or do I just happen to work in a place with a bunch of unlucky women? And if I could have been better prepared, why aren't semi-debilitating conditions mentioned in career advice?

It's a bit scary isn't it.

I think there is a general conspiracy of silence around pregnancy. Women are generally culturally conditioned to present childbearing either a wonderful 100% positive experience, or at least one in which all pain and suffering is cancelled out by the baby you get at the end.

So, as you've experienced, they focus on the hard work of an infant, rather than the often equally hard work of the pregnancy. I've also had the experience of the women I know never mentioning their complications to me until I myself was pregnant. Somewhat unhelpful!

There's also the issue of how many women in the workplace are pressured to keep their pregnancy as low-key as possible. Not so long ago, women were dismissed when they became pregnant, possibly in part because the complications of pregnancy were generally accepted (and used as an example of why women of childbearing age should not work at all). So now we shut up about it, basically, because we don't want to draw negative attention to ourselves and our female peers.

I'm not sure you could have been more prepared. You can never tell whether you'll have complications/conditions in pregnancy; and it's not your fault nobody wanted to discuss the risks.

I know just how you feel, i didn't even know i was pregnant the first time until i got up of my office chair one day and suddenly had this massive pain inbetween my legs, and felt like all my insides were going to fall out (spd)
I was rushed to hospital as i literally couldn't move, had a scan and was told i was 22 weeks pregnant!

Up to that time, i had been in contact with many pregnant women, loads of family having babies as i was the eldest, so witnessed each sibling and cousin arrive etc.
But i had no clue what this was about, that you could even get it and that it wouldn't necessarily dissapear like the mw's promised and that 4 yrs down the line it means my job in retail has been put on hold until after i have this baby due in July.
I was put on crutches at 13 weeks, and have been signed off until 2 weeks ago.
I was progressing at a fast rate within a new company, looking forward to the future of my career, and now i am faced with the possibility that for my health, i will have to stop at this level, or even be demoted when i go back after maternity leave
However angry i get that i wasn't informed of all the negative health implications that a majority of pregnant woman have to deal with, i doubt i would of felt i would end up being one of those women, i may have still ended getting pregnant regardless.

I know what you mean. I don't have any complications, thankfully, but even in a pregnancy that's going very well so far I'm finding it really hard to maintain normal service at work. I have an mportant deadline just before I go on mat leave, but it's going to be a nightmare to get there. I feel like there's so much stress on pregnancy not being an illness that I really failed to properly plan for feeling exceptionally tired and achy, even when things are generally good.

The pregnancy is not an illness thing really bugs the shit out of me.

10 weeks of nausea and exhaustion feels pretty much like an illness. What's the meaningful difference?

My consultant pathologist friend once remarked that a pregnant woman's condition was "more pathological than physiological".

Thanks ladies! Glad to hear I'm not the only one who has felt this way.

I guess that thing that bothers me most is I'm such a planner, and I could have planned better if I'd been better informed. I was ready to accept the 2-3 year detriment to my career (although, to be honest, didn't entirely believe it fully, as one always holds out hope they'll be the exception, but was at least aware and now definitely believe it!), but had not expected the issues I'm handling now.

Also very interesting that even without complications like mine, it is still a struggle. If I'd even known how clumsy I'd be, I would have not expected to get through so much lab work! The amount of stuff I've spilled is amazing... Luckily I haven't completely lost anything really important.

I do wish the women I'd spoken to during my investigation phase had said something about the physical effects.

But it's very hard to know the physical effects before you're actually pregnant. Even then every pregnancy is different. I worked to 36 weeks with both my previous pregnancies while I stopped work at 32 weeks with this one due to exhaustion and prior to that had time off just to rest. Some women really do sail through and for others it's very very hard.

What might shock you even more is how unimportant work may seem once your baby is here.

I think you have been unlucky. I'm really sorry to hear about how debilitating it's been for you. It's very variable, of course, how much women struggle with pregnancy, and it's very variable how much demanding their jobs are, physically or otherwise.

I also think it's a bit impossible to plan. My boyfriend always wanted us to wait until the "perfect" time in my career to have kids (which would be in around 7 years time when I'm 39!!) as I'm the primary wage-earner... but god, life's too short and not only about work. if I'd waited till the perfect time I'd be older, I might be less fit, less fertile... As it is I'm sure I'm going to get a few comments about putting my career on hold or how behind I'm going to be, but, well, we live in a sexist world, men can happily have kids without it affecting their work hardly at all and no one tuts at them for daring to want a family and a job.

I love my work, but it's not everything. I know so many doctors who have 6 months off and go straight back full time and, I don't know, sometimes I wonder what they're rushing towards and why.

I try not to think too far ahead, I'd tentatively like to think I'd have 9 months to a year off and then me and the boyfriend both go part time, but I'm fully open to things changing.

I only know one person who had significant health problems during pregnancy, so I think that your work cohort must be very unlucky. I also think that your pregnancy research was a bit unbalanced if you didn't look at any health related information. Having said that I did no research prior to pregnancy, I don't think it recurred to me to do so to be honest (I did plenty once I was pregnant, but that was mostly about birth options). I also did not experience any career impact from having children, although that was more luck than judgement, plus working in a area with very family friendly policies.

I'm sorry to hear about your difficult pregnancy. I hope that the rest goes very well.

I think that women vary massively in their experience of pregnancy. One of my BFs was pregnant for the first time the same year as me and when she went on ML she was out at nightclubs until 6am living it up as she was frightened of not being able to go out and enjoy herself once the baby arrived.

I, on the other hand, spent the last two months of my pregnancy asleep! I could barely get through lunch before retiring to bed for four hours solid sleep, and I slept 10 hours a night on top!

I haven't had huge problems so far with being pg but am only 9 weeks; friends have been similarly OK though morning sickness was the worst for most of them (one had bad SPD but she didn't work).

Re the 2-3 year slowdown in career progression, can your partner give up work instead? I get the impression that most of the slowdown in female careers comes after the baby is born because you're so tired from doing the night feeds etc; if you bottle feed during the night and your partner is the primary carer you should be able to go back to work in the same way a man does (though it may take a bit of self-discipline as the hormones won't want you to!) Obviously it depends on your partner's feelings and your finances but I often wonder whether that might work for those of us who really love our jobs.

I had my children some years ago (the youngest is 18) and I think that since then there has been increasing pressure on women to work closer to their due date. I worked to 29 weeks with my first and 32 weeks with my subsequent two and I was in no way unusual in finishing work at that time. It was very unusual, IME to work past 34 weeks.

Personally I had little in the way of pregnancy related issues aside from the usual sick and tired phase at the beginning and the FGS get this baby born phase at the end. I did have chickenpox in the middle trimester with ds1 and fainted alot with dd withwas annoying but not particularly debilitating.

My advice would be to finish sooner ardenbird. I know you want to make the most of your mat leave after but you also need to be in decent health to get this baby born. And a couple of weeks with your feet up will make all the difference. Enjoy!

I was the first person in our team to have a baby, and I know my colleagues watched in horror as first I had horrid sickness, then PGP, then carpal tunnel, then sickness again and then finally pre-eclampsia and an emcs. I also had a chest infection which lingered for ages as i couldn't take anything. I mean horror about how much time I had off or working at home, and also horror at the reality of how hard pregnancy can be on the body (and I know a few of them want children soonish).

Agree with saggar. And I would add that, while I spent months 8 and 9 of my pregnancy asleep, I recovered from childbirth remarkably fast (first period six weeks post partum, despite exclusive breastfeeding, and lost the baby weight in a flash as I took a lot of exercise).

oh, yes. Pregnancy isn't an illness . It jolly well is when you start snorting vomit out of your nostrils (because you've kept your mouth shut until you can get to a loo) with a few seconds warning and can only keep ice-cubes down.

It's impossible to know what will happen before you get pregnant. I was very fit but second time around the sickness floored me for some time. I certainly had time off work for it.

I found it utterly debilitating, twice. I had to have time off work - there was no other option.
I had a friend during my first pregnancy who had quite frighteningly painful contractions from about 28 weeks - a sure sign to slow down and rest - but carried on working, including evening events (PR) until 38 weeks. In pain and fear. She admitted she couldn't bear the thought of showing professional weakness. "Pregnancy is not an illness" but as someone said, what's the meaningful difference if you are actually in pain, a lot, frequently?

Hi, I guess everyone has different experience of pregnancy which affects how they cope. I am so pleased to be on maternity leave at last as am shattered.If you are concerned about your career then you can go back sooner, with your partner taking time off as you can now share SMP allowance etc. Or put things in place as others have said to ensure you as least tired as possible - longer time in childcare, cleaners etc. This is not an option for me, and having once been a very career orientated person 7 years of infertility and ivf route to pregnancy has meant that I no longer care about my career. But equally my Dh has people at his work who take time off as dads when their wife/partner gives birth to allow their partner's career to be a priority at the detriment of their own and that is seen as acceptable thesedays. You said there were things you could have put in place had you know in advance, so hopefully you can make changes for post-birth and if you choose to have a 2nd child can make those changes for pregnancy in a 2nd pregnancy.

I'd be prepared for big mental changes regarding your career too. I've always put my career first and fully expected to carry on regardless after maternity leave. I was about as driven as you can get. Now though, the further I get into pregnancy the more confused I get about the future, I don't know if I want to carry on doing what I did, but the thought of not doing so makes me upset and confused....

Agree with oikopolis. there's a bit of a conspiracy of silence from women. And the whole "pregnancy isn't an illness" mentality which is all very well but feeling like shit for the best part of a year is not exactly a walk in the park either

I think women on the whole are amazingly stoical about the whole thing. It can be a bit of a nightmare and we just get on with it. And that's before we set about managing children and work. Frankly most days I feel like a superhero just for turning up to work.

Lots of great insights, thanks! Yeah, I definitely should have read more health stuff -- I guess I was put off by the "your baby is now the size of a plum" stuff and didn't wade through to get to the effects on Mum. But, I also now know that all such things I'm reading diverged from experience in trimester 2 ("plan your babymoon!" when I was getting my first twinges of SPD), and I might have just fobbed off the 50-60% get carpal tunnel as, "oh, but that would be pretty mild wouldn't it?" So I'm sure some of it is my own selective blindness :)

The thing I don't know is what percent of women really have trouble I suppose the "conspiracy of silence" mentioned could contribute to that. If it's only, like 10%, then fair enough, no need to worry the 90% of women who will be fine. But if the chances are more like 50-50, then it seems worthwhile for women to at least be forewarned they might be physical incapable some time before the baby comes (whether they choose to then believe they'll be in the fine 50% as I'm sure 95% would! is up to them). For some reason I find I am more upset by things I couldn't have predicted than things I knew about but arrogantly-- decided wouldn't apply to me.

I've only 2.5 weeks left now, and I think I'll make it through -- there are only two things left, both scheduled for next week, that I absolutely have to physically be in work for, the rest I could do in bed with internet and phone access if necessary. It's just some things for my own career progression that would get left off in that case... And, yes, I'm already finding my priorities shifting, from early days of SPD and still working 90 hour weeks because I didn't want people to think I couldn't do things "because I was pregnant", to recognising that there are things I can't do because I'm pregnant and if this doesn't get done now, then, oh well...

DH has already been a huge help. I'm currently the only wage earner as he is working on a postgraduate degree, which before everything was meant to be done about the same time as the baby is due. But now he's had to go on leave of absence to care for me -- he drives me to and from work, carries my bag in, and basically makes it possible for me to continue working. Without him I probably wouldn't be able to. But that does mean that he won't be in a position to look for a job for longer, meaning I'm heading back as soon as my full-time pay period is over (nearly 5 months, counting the annual leave too).

And I must say that I'm probably less dedicated to my career than some of my colleagues seem to think I am :) A senior male colleague was recently talking about all the work he did with his 1-week old daughter draped over his shoulder (I was glad that someone else chimed in with "you weren't up in the middle of the night feeding her, though"). But then the woman who told me about the 2-3 year detriment also talked about reading work stuff while nursing her so-many week-old. I found myself thinking that if I'm reading anything while nursing, it'll be a novel, not something for work! So maybe it'll hit me even harder. But then again, I might already have a better balance than others: a male colleague told me about how once you have kids you can't get so much work done after dinner anymore, while I'm standing there thinking that I rarely attempt to get any work done after dinner.

This thread is really interesting!

I was very career focused (digital media/marketing) and hugely ambitious. But then I started to get very sick from stress (pre-TTC), and I work in an American Corporate, where you're supposed to treat every damned colleague like a "client" and internal news is treated with same reverence as putting content out onto the BBC news site

I'm very early pregnant and to be honest, working where I do has made me do a 180 on my career. That ambition, it feels like, has been beaten out of me from the pressures and demands from the company. I can't allow that same stress to jeopardise my baby in anyway and I don't give a fig what the GP said about babies being born in more stressful situations around the world...I know what stress-induced cortisol does to the body. And you know, just because many women around the world give birth in terrible situations - war. famine etc - that is no argument for me putting up with the panic attacks, pounding heart and sleeplessness that my job inflicts on me.

So my basic plan, like you OP, is to work right up to due date but ask to work from home from 8 months. I work in digital - there is no reason I can't do my job from home. After the baby is born, I plan to ask for flexible hours working from home 4 days a week (compromising with my manager to come in for the weekly team meeting). My job lends itself extremely well to remote working but my manager is a dinosaur that doesn't entirely trust it. I'm hoping the already documented stress, plus pregnancy plus the literature (read: BS) about how the company aims to make things flexible for parents returning to work means my manager will agree.

But this isn't even taking into account actual pregnancy things. This is just a rough plan to manage stress levels and pregnancy!