Talk to me about NK cells

[banana87]

I have had 3 mc's, but only 2 consecutively. Therefore I have not had any testing other than basic clotting and immune bloods which were all clear. I have a wonderful consultant who has promised me progesterone and aspirin next time round. I have heard about NK cell testing through Dr. Shehata and wondered if anyone has any experience with this? I am a bit concerned that NK cells are overdiagnosed, or am I wrong? Has anyone been treated for NK cells? Has anyone ever had a negative result from NK cell testing? Sorry to be panicky, its just ALOT of money so not really sure about what to do...

I don't know about over-diagnosed but probably over tested for. The NHS will test you if they think you need it, you don't need to have this done privately. You could ask your Consultant if they would refer you for a test or let you know why they don't think it is necessary.

If you've had sucessful pregnancy in the past then it's highly unlikely you have a problem with NK cells as I understand it. I have immunology problems and my Consultant Immunologist getting ready to refer me for testing when I fell and stayed pregnant (32 weeks now.

I hate to say it but it is entirely possible to have 3 m/cs with no known or consistent cause.

I agree with previous poster - given that you had a successful preg it is unlikely that NK cells are an issue. Two mcs in a row is not necessarily indicative of an underlying problem though I was tempted to believe something was wrong as I had two mcs in a row. I became preg the following month after second mc and am 35weeks . Glad I didn't fork out on the NK tests. I had clotting and immunity tests which showed a possible clotting issue.

Other tests to consider are genetic and progesterone. Also do you have a normal luteal phase?

Thanks ladies. Yes, I have a normal LP of 14 days. I am not going to fork out for genetic testing as this is too expensive and will definitely get paid for by both BUPA and NHS if I were to have a 3rd mc. I just don't want to face the heartache again and if I can avoid it I would :(

I totally sympathise, miscarriage is horrible and we'd all rather avoid it. It sounds like your consultant is being helpful though.

Try to be nice to yourself, take time to relax, eat healthily, get a bit of exercise and make sure you always have a project or distraction so you don't get too hung up on having another child.

I'm a great believer in Murphy's law in this respect. My body waited until my parents had two long holidays planned, we were moving house and I was facing redundancy and then decided to let me have a sticky baby. Book something expensive, foreign and put down a big deposit, I guarantee you'll be fine!

Sorry, don't mean to make light of it and hope your next pg works out well. I'm afraid NK cells probably aren't the answer for you though.

Hey banana I just wanted to say that I agree with what the others are saying about testing for other stuff first. I had coagulation screening and the other stuff before they tested NK cells. I have a normal luteal phase but my progesterone levels when I first found I was pregnant were a bit low so am on progesterone pessaries.

I'd recommend reading 'is your body baby friendly' by Dr Alan Beer for all the info you could ever want about NK cells.

Thanks pink. I have had anti-coagulation tests and Lupus, all negative. I will order the book :) Thanks!

Sorry to disagree ladies but secondary infertility is very often caused by immunological issues - in v layman's terms, it's as though the body becomes immunised against fertilised embryos once a single pregnancy has happened.
Please read Dr Alan Beer's "Is my body baby friendly?" which addresses such issues very well.
As for relying on the NHS for NK testing, or for that matter, robust testing in general, for the possible reasons for mc, don't bother. Only Shehata and Siobhan Quenby test for NKs on the NHS and even then only in exceptional circumstances.
It may well be that you DON'T have an issue with a hostile endometrium, and it could still be hostile without rpt mcs, just "unexplained" infertility and the only way to establish what's going on is to test. We tried for years, my NKs were wrong and were easy to sort and I now have 3 boys .
And as for relying on "Murphey's Law" frankly, it's clear that you've been lucky enough to avoid the pain, horror, desperation and suffering of infertility and miscarriage if you view the OPs situation in such glib terms. Glad things worked out for you in the conventional way. We're not all so lucky.

Holly - op is not infertile as she mentioned she had a successful preg. Given that nk cell testing is relatively new and the immunological theory contested, where is the research to suggest that infertility is "very often" caused by immune issues?

Hi banana
Agree with bagofholly it is actually quite possible, and surprisingly common, to have had a child successfully, yet still have mc's which could be caused by Nk cells. Dr Beers book highlights quite a few cases of this, and as for research, it will always be difficult to run big clinical trials on pg women, as they are understandably reluctant to be tested on.
His book does show that there is research (obviously done by him), but probably not on the scale of what would result in approval for treatment/further research from NICE.
Personally, for me, I had run out of options and NK cells were the one that made sense to me. After 4 unexplained mc's, and all the tests the NHS could offer coming back clear, there had to be a reason why this was happening to me.
At the end of the day, if the treatment plan causes no harm, and results in a much wanted baby, I am not that bothered if it is discredited/not validated as yet. I'm sure hat there are lots of trials/experimental treatments that have resulted in huge leaps in medical progress.

I can understand your anxiety about the testing banana - I had to research alot, and process alot of this before I made my decision. Just take your time to think things through and I'm sure that you will make the right decision for you.

The unfortunate thing about all of this pg lark, is that we are never guaranteed to get the outcome we wish for - it's a scary leap of faith, and that's what's so maddening about it.

I found Siobhan Quenbys email address & emailed her myself about my 4 early losses. I already had 5 children (1 stillborn) when i then had 4 recurrent miscarriages. All other tests came back ok.
Siobhan was lovely & said she would be more than happy to see me.

I was going to book an appointment to see her when i fell pregnant again which turned out to be ectopic & i lost my left tube. After my ectopic my consultant said he believed my 4 miscarriages had actually been all ectopic & just 'aborted' (dont like that term) themselves from my left tube.
Four months later & i was pregnant again & that pregnancy was ok, so i think my consultant was right.

Whilst going through my losses i did mention NK cells to my consultant but he didn't want to refer me to anyone. So i took it upon myself to research it & contact Siobhan.
You could try & contact Siobhan & go from there. I'm of the view that i'd rather be tested for everything possible & rule them out than sit there wondering if this or that is causing my miscarriages.

Thank you Holly, and I do agree with you, as I have heard very similar. I am going to buy Dr. Beers book about NK cells and go from there. Dr. Shehata is local to me so I will be going to see him if/when I decide if I want to go forward with this. Thanks.

V best of luck. An alternative is Dr Amin Gorgy. And a good place to read more about all this is the immunology bit of fertilityfriends.co.uk . You could also be seen at ARGC in London who do similar work. X x

Agree with bagofholly - I had dd1 then 5 mc on the run, was diagnosed with high NK activity & also APLS, the first pregnancy is thought to be a sensitising event. In the next pregnancy I was treated with high dose folic acid, progesterone, prednisolone, aspirin & clexane & had a live birth (private treatment). The pregnancy after that I was only treated with aspirin & progesterone (NHS) & I had a second trimester intra-uterine death (ds2). I changed NHS consultant for the next pregnancy & she agreed to follow the steroid protocol & I had another live birth, I'm currently 20 weeks pg with the same steroid + anticoagulant therapy.

I do know of quite a few people in my mc group who've been tested for NK activity (both privately & NHS) who have tested negative. Some people have needed stronger immune suppression than steroids - IVIg (I had an adverse reaction to my test dose so can't use this) or intralipids.

My Daughter has had 9 MCs
She has a blood disorder and has just found out
she have high levels of NK Cells.
What can she do to have much wanted Baby??????