Mumsnet Talk

This family would be affected by the cap. The family is made up of two parents who have combined their families and taken responsibility for their children - so there are 6 children in the family.

As the graph shows, most of their income is child benefit.
They spend the majority of the money on food for the family of 8. The next largest outgoing is for school uniform, shoes, other school expenses and clothing. So they are taking good care of the children.

They all live in an overcrowded 3 bed house, on a council estate in north wales.

The amount they will lose from the cap is more than the cost of their rent.

AIBU that this cap is actually a cut in child benefit, and will penalise people who are trying to bring up their children properly?

There is always someone who is penalised

They could cut out the fags and that would almost cover the child benefit loss- chilling thought.

They would be financially better off living apart and claiming as separate families. I wonder if this is the way people will get round the changes?

Are you confusing CTC with child benefit? The main bulk of their income is not CB but CTC.

It is exactly the child benefit that is being cut. It would be an even bigger cut if one of the children was disabled, for example.

Tupperware - that is exactly what this 'reform' will push people to do - effectively breaking up families.

I do see what you mean, but my sympathy is severley limited given how much they spend on beer, fags and sky. Even with the cap, they will still have £20k net to live on after their rent.

Actually, it will be the housing benefit that will be cut.

Thats not much divided by 8 people Amateur.

Why hasn't he got off his ass and got a job stacking shelves since 2001? Or retrained, he was a software programmer so clearly has a brain in his head.

mumblechum As he is on jobseekers allowance, he will have been applying for at least 3 jobs per week. I expect there are not many jobs in their area, that is probably why the rent is quite low for a 3 bed.

Did a lot of you miss the bit where his wife has mental health problems? The chances of her giving up smoking are highly unlikely. Also maybe you didn't realise but if you are on job seekers you can't retrain or you will lose your benefit, not even night classes!

mumblechum - agreed. People in receipt of WTC are exempt from the cap I believe, so one of the two of them only needs to do 16 hours a week to solve the "problem".

I was sympathetic until I read the breakdown of their spending.

24 cans of lager a week, 200 cigarettes and a large pouch of tobacco. So I went on the Tesco website to see how much this would cost them. Answer is even for the cheapest brand over £90 a week.

The benefits cap would reduce their weekly income by £82.40

So when the father says "I see eight people here having to choose between eating or heating”, he will make his family starve or freeze before the parents consider giving up smoking or drinking?

WTC will change to 24 hours in April too!

They have a weekly income £582 that is a lot more than many people who are working and they all have to cope. Like people have already said, fags, beer and sky are NOT essentials.

And why would you expect to live in a 'big' house if you weren't working? I find it a strange attitude when people believe they are 'entitled' to big houses, two cars etc etc times are tuff....

They could get rid of Sky as well. I can't believe he reckons they NEED the movies. Freeview is available ~sighs~

They dont have a big house. But they only have ONE house between EIGHT people.

If the benefit cap comes in, it will "nudge" them into splitting up into two houses to remain below the cap.

I think the whole 'it could force the family to split' thing is ridiculous, I would prob be better of financially as a single mum but the thought of kicking my husband out has never occurred to me (not for financial reasons anyway!).

"if you are on job seekers you can't retrain or you will lose your benefit, not even night classes!"
That is ridiculous.

Perhaps if she was ill, he wasn't working, and they already had 5 kids in a 3 bed house, they shouldn't have had another child?
Capped benefits might have made them cost that out more carefully.
In some ways, I think that there should be temporary levels of capping, for those with school age children... but that wouldn't deliver money back now.

That's bollocks about retraining, if you are on job seekers you pay about £20 per course while others on the same course pay over £100.

They can stop smoking.

They don't need sky.

We don't have sky, we don't smoke, we don't drink lager. We also don't spend £32 (WTF!) on mobiles a week . None of these things essential.

I have a blackberry on contract - £20 a month (so £5 a week). DH has a pay and go cheap phone which he rarely uses, so say £1 a week. For £32 a week we could both have iphones!

Sorry, if people on benefits can afford all these luxuries then the benefit cap is not being set low enough.

Were this family specifically picked for the lack of sympathy they would engender?

"Raymond, a former educational software writer, has been jobless since 2001. ... Ray says: "The market for my skills dried up 10 years ago - there's a total lack of work in my area of expertise.""

So retrain, you lazy fecker! Like the rest of us have! And frankly, if you haven't worked in the field for ten years, you can't really claim 'expertise' in it any more. Sorry, but that is just demonstrating entitlement - 'I do this job and only this job, I will work at nothing else ...'