ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
God gave my friend's DH a heart attack(94 Posts)
My friend's DP works in the. City. Up to 2 years ago he would regularly work to midnight. Come the weekend. he would be so tired that he often slept the weekend away.
Then he had a. heart attack .(he is early 40s). It was a wake-up call for him.He cut back on the hours. His children now get to see him in the evenings. Instead of saving his (generous) bonus and salary he now spends it. They recently moved to a new house and bought a new car.
I was invited over to see the new house last week. Over coffee she was telling me how great life was now. She and the kids get to see him more. He is less preoccupied with work and money. She attributes all this to God giving DH a heart attack so that he would stop and revaluate his life.
Not being a believer I obviously thought WTF at the idea of. a caring God intervening in such a violent manner. Are there any Christians out there who supports my friend's perspective or do you share my WTF?
Frankly I find it hard to understand how my friend can believe that God let millions die because He gave us free will but will intervene in her marriage.
And why would "god" have done this, particularly, rather than Zeus or Thor smiting him, or the Great Green Arkleseizure deciding to have a bit of fun? I mean, what a lot of nonsense.
I am happy for your friend's DH that his heart attack was not fatal and that he has seen it as a wake-up call to a less stressful and more healthy lifestyle. This happens to a lot of people and I wish him well.
So if only Christians are gods children why do the suffer the same trials as non-Christians? So there's no genuine protection on them, they just get to feel loved by him?
The basic answer is that we are all going to die. Some of us die as children, and some at 80, but if heaven exists, then maybe those who die young actually suffer less pain. However, it can be much harder on those left behind when a child dies.
Totally, That book is a book about a man who was very angry with God and decided to challenge him, let me give you background info, Job was a good man who was going about his business then one day satan went to God and told him I bet he'll disown you if you take away his possesion.And God said , Ok, go ahead and strip him of it, but don't kill him. So Job looses all his material possesion, wives , kids and grandchildren. He was a very wealthy man. And so the book is born. Job is angry and he voices his anger. His friends also mock him telling him how incapable his God is to let these things happen. They also challenge God too. So God answers him/them quite strongly almost furiousely and I believe his answers might be of use to you. Thats why I recommended the book. Its a safe book that can be read by non believers without the salvation bit.
Regarding the Earth, yes that book does talk about creation. i.e God himself talking about how he laid out the foundation of the earth, in person...
Now about it being a few thousand years old, Its a personal belief that if we do geneology from now till Jesus's time, then from Him till Adam, I don't think we'll get to a million years. Will we? The same book I told you about strangely enough talks about an old earth that met some kind of demise which then reinforces my belief that the earth is old ( millions even billions years old) but God put a new canvas on top of it for Adam and us. This is my personal belief clouded in personal ignorance so feel free to put daggers right through it. I'm still educating myself
MUMINSCOTLAND yes I believe in the existence of pseudogods the Bible is full of it. Just like Satan is real. I'm sure if you've heard accounts from famous satanists you'll be aware of his existence assuming wars, disease, child sacrifice, abortion don't make you suspect it.
I'm sure if you've heard accounts from famous satanists you'll be aware of his existence assuming wars, disease, child sacrifice, abortion don't make you suspect it.
Sounds just like the stuff god got up to in the OT doesn't it. So God put job through all that as some kind of game with Satan. Nice. I'm guessing if someone turned up and said 'I bet I can get your dd to hate you' I can't imagine I would enter into some sort of pact. I'd pretty much telling the weirdo to bog off.
I'll tell you what though, if I was making up a religion and I wanted to stop people doubting that the god I'd created was real when really bad stuff happened, I would probably included a spiel along the lines of Job. I'd also put some sort of threat in there about being tortured if they didn't believe.
Hehehe .. thanks for your input. The goodness with most religions is that you can always test drive it and if it doesn't sit well with you, then abandon ship. Are you atheist Headinhands?
'he would never have allowed what happened to Jamie Bulger. Surely. It just doesn't make sense.'
Especially because his killers were children, not adults with this so-called free will.
'Some of us die as children, and some at 80, but if heaven exists, then maybe those who die young actually suffer less pain. However, it can be much harder on those left behind when a child dies. '
That has to be one of the most insulting and ignorant things I've read on here.
Do you genuinely expect others to value or respect your personal belief when it is basically uneducated guess work without justification or evidence.
No, I don't. I didn't ask to be valued and I didn't ask for respect. I don't mind what people think of my beliefs.
Why do we have to respect this sort of belief.
You don't have to respect it, I never said you did.
Why is it not acceptable to ridicule this practice?
Well, ridiculing anyone isn't very polite, but as we are just words on a screen to each other, then feel free to go for your life. If you were to ridicule me to my face in real life, then that would be rude and I'd probably think as little of you as you would of me, and with good reason.
If someone came and told me that the sky was purple then they would clearly be very stupid, why is your made up twaddle not equally stupid?
Because we can prove the sky isn't purple just be looking at it. You can't prove that we don't have a soul with something as easy as looking up. But if you believe that my thoughts or any religion I'd twaddle, then that's as much your prerogative as it is mine to believe that there are unicorns living in my loft.
Why does calling I a religion give you immunity from reality?
It doesn't. Reality is reality whatever thoughts someone chooses to keep in their head.
The God thing aside, he is a different man. He has been earning a £100k plus for years but he never spent much of it. He now realizes that he can't take it with him. That plus being less work focused means they take more holidays, eat out more and such stuff.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
abbey thanks for the clarification. I think that confirms that you and I take very different views of what Christianity is about.
Hi there Muminscotland, how do our views differ?
Some people will always look on the bright side of life.
And some of those people are Christians.
And some of those Christians are Born Again Christians who like to share their positive outlook with others.
I'm more of an Eeyore myself.
But if you're friend is happy, then good for her.
I have struggled with the sort of question the OP poses for years, especially the 'premature' loss of a child, close friend or relative. Many people report that their life and outlook have been permanently changed by a 'close call' of some kind.
I have found Isaiah 57: 1 to be some comfort:
"The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
the devout are taken away,
and no one understands
that the righteous are taken away
to be spared from evil."
If you start with the premise that 'There IS a better place / state' (be it Heaven, Nirvana, Paradise or whatever), then perhaps it is easier to accept that death comes earlier to some people than to others.
Easy to say in the abstract; much harder to apply when it actually happens. I 'speak' from experiences.
I think that in the end, when things have come 'down to the wire', I have been more stirred by the ordinary human warmth, compassion, and (dare I say it) love of others than I have been by ideas, theories and theology. Though for a thinking being, these do have their place too.
However, if 'this life is all we have' then I can see entirely that early death, suffering etc will be totally abhorrent.
Many Christians, notably St Paul, would love to 'depart (right now) to be with Christ, which is far better', but accept that they have to stay here 'on earth' because [they believe] God still has a job for them to do here.
One can accept, reject, puzzle over or ridicule the idea, but it does seem to be a point of view held by a lot of 'believers'.
abbey In summary I think pretty much all our views on it differ. But, specifically, I do not believe in Satan or "pseudogods".
I believe there is God, there is humanity, and there is a lot of misunderstanding.
I believe that all human spiritual experience comes from an attempt to understand and connect with one single God, and that "evil" is simply a combination of natural forces (earthquakes etc), misfortune, and human greed and selfishness.
I also do not believe that the Bible or any other religious book was dictated accurately by God. They are all limited and partial accounts of humanity's attempts to connect with God. Therefore any argument about the age of the world which starts from the genealogy given in the gospels - which link Jesus to Adam via Joseph, despite the fact that Joseph isn't Jesus' father - is complete and utter nonsense.
When science can show that these figures are nonsense, we have to choose whether to accept that this universe runs on logical cause and effect, and that therefore scientific method functions and we can study things with our brains. Or whether to throw away everything that reason tells us in favour of something written down 2000 years ago to make a theological point, added to stories told around the campfire to explain why the world was as they found it. I don't pick campfire stories over scientific method, and I find it difficult to understand why anyone thinks God wants them to.
town you sound like you're trying to make sense of death, as many people with faith do, but I just thought I'd respond to However, if 'this life is all we have' then I can see entirely that early death, suffering etc will be totally abhorrent.
I gave up all belief in god about six years ago and with it any notion of an afterlife. I think this life is all there is, when we're gone, we're gone. But that in itself makes it all the more important to live life to it's fullest, to be happy and help those around you to be happy [plus to live responsibly, within the limits of this planet, make it a better place to live for future generations, help others who are suffering etc].
If someone close dies, their memory lives on. It's sad, sometimes utterly heartbreaking, but that's just part of life. Possibly not abhorrent but I get what you mean.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Hi Jammy yes I did read your comment - thanks. [Thinks ... shall I risk a response ...... ??]
Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die as a philosophy of life has been around for a while. Even better but maybe less common your current approach - do good, for it's the right thing to do. Which I wholeheartedly applaud.
What I was trying to address by using the word abhorrent was an attitude common on these threads which seems to be of the form:
God doesn't exist. I am absolutely certain he doesn't exist. But how dare he give anyone a heart attack, or allow a young child to die, or allow famines to kill millions!
totallyBS i wouldn't say God gave him a heart attack, but He may have brought good things out of a dire family situation.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.