Angels to believe or not to believe.

(85 Posts)
chubbymomie2012 Wed 16-Jan-13 22:53:04

Today I saw an interview with Lorna Byrne. She believes she can speak to the Angels. i wondered did anyone else see it or have any of you read the book she has written about her life. i am not sure what to think and im very interested in whatbyou guys think please.

chubbymomie2012 Sat 19-Jan-13 10:19:58

Timid viper I agree, I'm reading the book and I'm not convinced. I'm an intensive care nurse in a children's hospital and a lot of our parents use angel cards and angel 'things' for their kids. Some of them have very convincing stories but again it's a highly stressful environment for them and they get comfort from it. I want to believe but the "scientist" in me throws in doubts. I'm a Catholic so was brought up with the notion of a guardian angel and when I was a child everyone who knows me tells me about my obsession with my imaginary friends. The thought of seeing something now though terrifies me. If I'm on night duty I run through the corridors at work for fear of seeing something.

Do I believe???? I must do or I wouldn't be afraid! Do u think?

headinhands Italy Sat 19-Jan-13 11:37:06

Hi Chub, I reckon it comes down to the power of suggestion plus humans natural hyperawareness at night. I don't believe in ghosts but I wouldn't want to spend the night in a cemetery. Late at night I would end up thinking about horror movie scenes in cemeteries and my senses would be at such at heightened state I would be pooping my pants over every sound. grin

expatinscotland Sat 19-Jan-13 12:24:54

I agree, seeker. I'm not sure if there is life after death but don't believe in angels or fairies or unicorns, all the same ilk, as far as I can see.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Sun 20-Jan-13 08:22:20

"Theres a lot of things we dont understand, that doesnt mean they dont exist!"

Doesn't mean that they do exist either. Like apostrophes, I mean what are they all about?

On a more serious note. Not understanding things means we should research them and find real answers rather than just making stuff up to explain unusual happenings.

susanann Sun 20-Jan-13 11:05:10

I believe I have looked into it and am not making stuff up. Of course its your perogative not to believe, just as its mine to do so.

headinhands Italy Sun 20-Jan-13 11:22:05

Susan, can I ask how you looked into it? Do you mean you read lots of books is was there more to it?

headinhands Italy Sun 20-Jan-13 11:25:34

Surely the question of existance has a yes or no answer. It's not 'yes' for some and 'no' for others.

PigletJohn Sun 20-Jan-13 12:26:59

it's not a question of existence, it's a question of belief.

Like all religions, it's an arrangement of stories made up by people who are mostly long dead, but probably thought they were acting for the best.

If you find that one of more of these stories appeals to you, you are free to believe that it's "true." And if not, not.

susanann Sun 20-Jan-13 12:36:32

I have read quite a lot on the subject. I have also had "supernatural" experiences that I dont think can be explained away. EG. messages from friends who have passed away. I assume you dont believe, which is fine. But I do get irritated by people who dismiss it as stupid and that people who believe are deluded or weak. (apologies if you are not like that head) I would not dismiss other peoples beliefs as I think its rude and posssibly hurtful. I take a live and let live attitude.

Viviennemary Sun 20-Jan-13 12:39:40

I'd like to believe in angels but I'm afraid I don't really. I read Lorna Byrne's book and was totally not convinced by it. Better not say what I really thought. But I am surprised she ever found a publilsher.

headinhands Italy Sun 20-Jan-13 12:45:24

Piglet, my last post was in response to Susan's claims that she had looked into it and wasn't making it up. It appeared that she maintains that her belief isn't just based on how appealing the notion of angels is but that there was something she felt more concrete behind her belief.

IndigoBarbie Sun 20-Jan-13 12:49:07

I take a live and let attitude too smile I mean, how can any of us ever judge or dismiss another's experiences? Regardless of what those might be. Sure, there are lots of people who make up stories etc, but I know what I feel is my reality and what I feel in my heart to be true.

It surprises me every day that if you stand up and say I know angels are real, and I talk to them everyday: that people think you are stupid for believing such hocus pocus. It's ok to believe in god though, right? Oh, wait.....can we prove he exists? We may never in our lifetimes have any kind of technological proof or measurement device that would show or prove the existence of god. But just look how many people in the world pledge their lives to teachings from various books on the subject, each one seeing 'their' truth.

I looked into it possibly like you did susanann and I felt like I had to share my stories. There's no way I'd try to convince anyone if anything. Like you said headinhands-it's a yes for some and a no for others.

If it feels like truth in your heart, then it feels like your truth.

headinhands Italy Sun 20-Jan-13 13:50:10

Number of people believing something is not evidence either way though is it. Same as feeling something to be true.

As Thing said over on t'other thread, I respect people but reserve the right to make judgements about the validly of any beliefs. Although no, I wouldn't walk into someone's house uninvited to quiz them on what they believe in but on a public forum, yes I will and I do. If people feel hurt then they probably shouldn't be airing their views in a public space. I personally like to have my views challenged robustly, it's how we all learn and adapt.

seeker Sun 20-Jan-13 14:16:31

"If it feels like truth in your heart, then it feels like your truth."

It may feel like your truth- but that doesn't mean it's true......

IndigoBarbie Sun 20-Jan-13 14:51:06

So how do we determine what feels true to us?

I do it with what my heart feels. Lots of us are told certain things by people and we choose to go with what they have said rather than what feels right to us.

seeker Sun 20-Jan-13 14:58:59

I'm glad you're not mending my car or taking my appendix out!

headinhands Italy Sun 20-Jan-13 14:59:44

So the things you believe in Indigo. No one ever told you about them prior to you believing in them? You've never read a book about them or discussed it with anyone and the information came to you via supernatural means without you having ever heard of them?

headinhands Italy Sun 20-Jan-13 15:06:11

Indigo, I reckon I try to determine what is fact the same way you do with 99% of what you think. I try not to use sheer feelings as they are very subjective.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Sun 20-Jan-13 17:47:31

When we are presented with unusual situations which we don't understand, our brains attempt to fill in the gaps. We may think we have experienced things which we have not. This has been proven in many experiments.

So personally I place absolutely zero faith in the pure experiences of other people. I lay my understanding on well executed and repeatable experiments.

You can believe what you like, but just don't forget that even though you think you might have experienced something, doesn't mean that you have and even if you did, doesn't mean that just because you don't understand it that it is paranormal.

myroomisatip Sun 20-Jan-13 18:34:43

Well I believe, for many reasons.

Also I purchased a pack of angel cards for myself and one for my daughter and I used them fairly often. I think there are 44 cards - if that is relevant.

On using them say ten times, on eight occasions a particular card came out. It was 'Serephina'. I happened to mention this to my daughter who confirmed that she has had this card a few times also.

Neither of us could actually see how it was relevant to us as it told of a 'happy change or addition to the family'. I just kept worrying that my daughter would end up pregnant. As it turned out, another further removed family member announced that she was pregnant within two weeks.

I still use my cards when I feel troubled, they have been very well shuffled and cut and shuffled and there are many cards that have not come out for me, I often get the same messages and they are usually relevant.

I accept that the messages are vague and obviously designed to be uplifting but hand on heart, just skipping through them now, they are many that would not be relevant (unless my circumstances were to change).

I sent a pack to a dear friend who lives in another country and we were Skyping one evening and decided we would use our cards. We both chose one card out of the pack - and we both got the same card. I dont know what the odds of that are but I was fairly surprised by it.

Last December I did a spread of cards. Three times. Each time a particular card came out which was something that really pleased me but I was feeling sceptical. I put all the cards together shuffled and shuffled and cut and then asked my guardian angel, 'If this is true and this is what you want me to know, then this card will come out next' and it did. Absolute confirmation.

I dont make major decisions based on the cards but I do find them very comforting sometimes.

susanann Sun 20-Jan-13 19:06:55

my room, Ive done this too. Its amazing isnt it?

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Sun 20-Jan-13 19:13:50

Are all 44 cards different? If so, then the odds of two people selecting the same card are 1 in 44. So that's a nice coincidence but better odds than winning a tenner on the lottery.

These kinds of things are designed to be very wide reaching. A change or addition could refer to so many things, especially in a two week time frame. I reckon I could find a change or addition in my extended family every week of my life with no trouble at all. Even cards you think would bear no relevance to you, probably would if you drew them out because you be looking for them to be true.

I don't know what methods are used with the 'spreads' and shuffling. But having some experience with card tricks, I can tell you that it's very easy to make things appear like they are more common or important just by following some instructions.

You say they comfort you, and that's great. I'm not wishing to take that away from you, but ultimately they are just cards and there's nothing supernatural going on here!

seeker Sun 20-Jan-13 19:34:26

Coincidences happen all the time. Please don't be taken in. For example, I went to talk to my ds's new form tutor last week. It turned out that he is the uncle of a school friend of my dd's, who goes to a different school in a town 12 miles away.

COINCIDENCES HAPPEN ALL THE TiME!!!!

tinselahohoho Sun 20-Jan-13 20:44:33

I have worked closely with a number of psychics, they've all 'read' me, told me about my angels, 'done' my angel cards. Really, there was nothing there at all. They'd have been more accurate Googling me. Now, it was absolutely in their interest to impress me, but, even knowing that, there wasn't a single thing they could say that was accurate or relevant.

I think that, generally, a lot of people don't understand statistics and probability (I don't mean that in a snarky way, I'm no maths whizz myself, but many of the 'what are the chances of?' comments people make are a bit . . . misguided); sometimes we all need something to hold onto when things are tough; and, the people who punt this stuff are incredibly good at it.

Again, I'm not taking anything away from someone who has found the notion of angels helpful at a difficult time, but I could scream at some of the beliefs the career angelists and psychics have, and it can be downright dangerous and hurtful. No different to religion really.

myroomisatip Sun 20-Jan-13 22:03:16

smile thanks for your comments.

I have had many coincidences in my life but not always the same ones. And yes, all 44 cards are different.

I have been using my cards for almost seven years and believe me, I have shuffled and I have cut etc. and there are over ten cards that I have never ever drawn. My own response to that is a shrug of the shoulders. I dont worry about it.

tinselahohoho, I went to a medium recently. So far, at least 50% of what she said to me was totally accurate. What really surprised me was that she gave me the name of my mothers best friend. I was very careful not to lead her on, but in all honesty she never asked me any questions, she just came right out with it, got it right first time. I dont have any explanation. All I can say is that until you try these things for yourself you really dont know. smile

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