I've had it with the Catholic/Christian gaybashing(66 Posts)
re: the above article, ive looked into regining formally from the Catholic church - ive not been to church since christmas 2011 and my crisis of faith is entwined in this.
i have always laways seperated out faith and religion. always. Catholic history is a shower of shite, torture, power and money grabbing and sexual abuse - i'm not going to defend that.
i am finding this letter one step too far
i mean, WWJD - its a cliche i know, it makes me want to puke suburban America up in a frilly apron - but jesus wouldn't do this, he wouldn't.
yet i looked at the pro-forma resignation letter and felt sick, i can't do it. i don't know whats wrong with me, i am usually so fucking principled.
does anyone else have a view?
Look, there is never going to be a Catholic gay marriage. End of. If that is something you are passionate about, then you are going to have to find another church. These people are acting according to their consciences, you must do the same.
How do you resign from the Catholic Church? I'm an atheist but was baptised and made first holy communion. If I'm still counted as a catholic then I'd like to formally remove myself from it, if there is a way.
"A quarter at least of the world's healthcare is provided by the RC church"
Can I see the evidence?
It gets me very annoyed. Live and let live and let god alone judge us when it's our time. IMO Jesus taught us to love our enemies and turn the other cheek, offer hospitality to strangers and not to judge lest we be judged also.
Bit hard that last bit but I have a lifetime to work on it....
Is the evidence available from somewhere that isn't a Catholic
propaganda article press release?
I wonder if there are any UN stats on healthcare provision and providers?
The RC Church has done an enormous amount of damage wrt the stance on condoms and AIDS. Especially to women and children. I think you need to weigh all that suffering and all those deaths up against hospitals and clinics.
The Little Sisters of Mercy used to do a lot
of good work for to women in their laundries, and the Christian Brothers did a lot for to boys in their residential schools.
Who knows what goes on in the clinics and orphanages?
Edam The RC church has not "^done an enormous amount of damage wrt the stance on condoms and AIDS^"
The cause of the spread of HIV infection is not unprotected sex: it's promiscuity. This is why HIV infection rates in muslim countries are so much lower than non-muslim countries: promiscuity is not part of the muslim culture.
Please don't blame the RC church for the spread of HIV infection. That is disingenuous.
You surely would not claim that comdoms do not reduce the spread of HIV?
Because it would be simply untrue.
One opinion which differs from yours (there are many) might be that the church's horror of sexual activity, which is so vile that it can only be excused on grounds of causing babies, has led to a fundamentalist religious obsession that it is better to spread fatal diseases, than to sanction the use of devices which can permit sex to occur while obstructing both the creation of babies and the spread of fatal and incurable disease.
Zavi - the RC Church is responsible for the suffering and deaths of men, women and children who have contracted AIDS that could have been avoided through widespread use of condoms. The Church knew and knows full well that condoms do help to prevent the spread of AIDS. But the Pope and the heirarchy thought their message about sex outside marriage being bad was more important - more important than saving lives, even the lives of little babies. That was an evil act, and one for which those priests will have to answer one day, if they believe what they say. (Although who knows, given the extent of child abuse, whether they actually believe in Jesus and his teachings anyway - remember 'if any of these were to harm a child...'?)
And as for promiscuity not being part of Muslim culture, ho ho ho. Sex outside marriage carries severe penalties for women, and sometimes for men, in some Muslim countries. But rape and sexual abuse still exist, oddly enough.
Millstone round the neck is prescribed, and cast into the sea.
We had some bollocks from the society for the protection of the unborn today.
We need to stop gay people getting married because marriage is the best environment to raise a child.
We need to stop gay marriage because most abortions are requested by unmarried women.
In countries with marriage equality, the rate of marriage has gone down. So just like countries with marriage inequality then . Twats.
I almost prefer the "God made Adam and Eve" total irrelevance to the "marriage is so special lets keep it just for 'us'" bollocks.
I mean seriously, gay people are now responsible for unwanted pregnancy! You couldn't make it up.
SPUC put me on their press release list. Suddenly started getting these horrible diatribes from them. Thankfully when I asked to be taken off their list I was. <yuck>
It's ridiculous to imagine that if the RC church had said "ok, you can use condoms in order to prevent the spread of disease" that those - promiscuous - people would then have thought "oh, right. Ok, I'll use condoms henceforth".
If the RC church's doctrine (no sex before marriage. No adultery within marriage) had been adhered to in the first place then the spread of HIV infection would not have been nearly so widespread.
RC church, or its doctrine, is not responsible for the spread of HIV infection!
"It's ridiculous to imagine that if the RC church had said "ok, you can use condoms in order to prevent the spread of disease" that those - promiscuous - people would then have thought "oh, right. Ok, I'll use condoms henceforth"."
It's ridiculous to make such an assertion.
More to the point, however, if the anti-condom movement had not, and did not, obstruct and prevent the supply of condoms, they would be more readily available and, without doubt, more frequently used.
Alas, the RC church, and its doctrine, is responsible for obstructing a cheap, simple and effective barrier to the spread of a fatal and incurable disease.
Can this be anything other than wicked?
Anyone remember George Bush's billions in aid being withdrawn from countries who refused to teach abstinence over condom use?
The Catholic church are, at best, naive in thinking that not using condoms would magically make people monogamous but its the evangelicals with the $$$$$$ that continue to get away with this whilst the world has turned to give the Vatican a hard stare. Countries with the highest infection rates (Swaziland, Botswana, SA, Namibia) tend to be Christian countries with small RC populations.
Custardo, I've written this out a few times - but I'm not comfortable with actively persuading another against the church (I feel like I will be struck down!)
In short I could have written all that you have here. Except, I have an idea of why I can't resign from the Catholic Church is for fear of unbaptised future grandchildren. There is more but I can't word it very well so late at night.
I have two girls. I just can't allow them to think such hatred of another, such intolerance is okay.
I can't find a suitable alternative because anything else feels fake, I am in no rush to find anything. (Judaism has always called to me - but I just can't devote myself to god at all at he moment).
promiscuity is not part of the muslim culture.
So why do muslims have
a) temporary marriages
b) multiple wives
RC church, or its doctrine, is not responsible for the spread of HIV infection!
Yes it is, where is the campaign to be faithful to your partner? To not use prostitutes? To not rape? It might be official doctrine but that is not what is being publicised.
Has anyone got a link to the actual letter? Would like to see if either of the two parish priests here have signed it. Actually I know that at least one of them won't have done as he is a friend and very vocal about the Catholic Church .....his comments on the Vatican are eye watering .....guess that he WON'T be making Pope then?
He often says that the Vatican have backed themselves into a corner over lots of things and now look like idiots but because the wheels of change move slowly there it will take time before they realise this.
Despite this he remains committed to being a Priest and says he has no regrets about the path he has chosen. He is very much a person who loves and cares for others though and he says he can "ignore a lot of the bollocks coming from the Vatican" in his day to day practice. Neither he or the other priest would agree with the church's stance on contraception. They had to read out a letter regarding the Bill for same sex marriages last year....both followed it up with their own comments that Jesus was about love and that anyone of any sexual persuasion would always be welcome in the parish churches.
Okay....found the letter and the signatories; neither of our parish priests have signed it . So relieved about that.
When the first studies showing circumcised men had far lower rates of HIV/AIDS to uncircumcised men were published, critics said that the results did not factor in the sociocultural behaviour of Muslim men. That they tended to be far less promiscuous- which means much lower rates of casual sex with multiple sexual partners- because of religion and culture not circumcision. Anti circumcision activists said this skewed the results.
And this was a valid criticism accepted across the board, which is why they did the later studies only amongst non muslim men ( and still found circumcision reduced the risks of HiV/AIDS infection amongst adult males.)
This really is about male behaviour- female 'chastity' doesnt help if the man is adulterous.many married women were infected with HiV who only ever slept with their husbands because their husbands were having sex outside of marriage.
Just as it that a woman once she becomes sexually active can get cervical cancer whether she has had 1 partner or several because it is to do with the HPV virus from the male partner - and that risk increases the more sexual partners he has and how many other sexual partners those women have.
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