Non hijabi Muslims...why don't you wear it?

(86 Posts)
WaynettaSlobsLover Sat 05-Jan-13 21:11:26

You may have read my previous thread. I'm interested to hear why you don't wear the headscarf personally, and also what others reactions to you not wearing it have been. Would really appreciate some feedback on this inshallah and to hear your personal opinions and views on it all

CoteDAzur Tue 08-Jan-13 19:42:08

I'm lily-white with light green eyes. Nobody can guess where I'm from and are generally shocked and incredulous when I tell them, as if they have met any other Turks hmm

Turkish language is still spoken in Central Asia (notably in Uzbekistan and Azerbaijan) and is grammatically closer to Japanese than any European language.

Cengiz ("Genghis"), Cagatay ("Chaghatai" - Ghengis Khan's son), Timocin ("Temujin" - GK's given name), Batuhan ("Batu Khan" - GK's grandson), Atilla, Altay ("Altai" - mountains in Central Asia where Turkic tribes lived 1000s of years ago) are still given names in Turkey.

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 08-Jan-13 19:50:58

I get the annoyance with people being incredulous about where I'm from too, they just expect all English to have blonde/brown hair and blue eyes it seems. My poor mixed up kids will have even a worse time than I do..

CoteDAzur Tue 08-Jan-13 19:52:53

I found the video of Nasser's speech on YouTube]. Please take two minutes to watch it. I am shock that Egyptians in 1950s were so much more liberal than they are now sad

He is talking about a conversation with the leader of Muslim Brotherhood that took place in 1953, so this speech must be from a few years later. Sorry, I misunderstood that bit when I was watching it on French TV.

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 08-Jan-13 19:52:56

I'm [jealous] of your 'light' green eyes. Mine are the colour of out of date olives.

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 08-Jan-13 19:53:30

That should read envy lol

CoteDAzur Tue 08-Jan-13 19:55:36

A few poems are known to have been written about them in my youth smile

CoteDAzur Tue 08-Jan-13 19:56:18

No more, though. If it's any consolation, the face around them hasn't been the same since I hit 40. Ah well smile

GetOrf Tue 08-Jan-13 19:56:46

I have just come back from Egypt and I didn't see an Egyptian woman in my time there who was uncovered (visited rural areas which are possibly conservative). A colleague who has been going ti Cairo for years says that its used to be far more common for women to be uncovered.

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 08-Jan-13 19:57:23

It's interesting to note the differences between the founder of the Muslim brotherhood hassan el banna and his brother, the liberal thinker Gamal el banna. I've been reading a lot about him as he wrote a book about the veil. In Egypt people range widely from very religious to just muslim by name and then of course the Copts and Jews. I have extended family who live there and know from family living here that to not wear headscarf is seen as a bad thing by them in particular.

GetOrf Tue 08-Jan-13 19:59:45

Thanks for that link cote.

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 08-Jan-13 20:00:28

GetOrf yes it's rare in areas such as Aswan in particular for women to be uncovered, but in Cairo and Luxor there is varying types of dress..most interestingly the combination of tight clothes and hijab. You see a lot of black and to be honest because of the poor diet out there and huge rates of diabetes, it's easier for women to wear much looser clothes than neccessary. In visiting dhs family in may...and am crapping myself already...

GetOrf Tue 08-Jan-13 20:37:12

I did see a striking looking girl in Qena with fitted jeans and a top and a brightly coloured hijab.

QueenofPlaids Tue 08-Jan-13 22:09:27

GetOrf Whilst the plural of anecdote is not data, I visited Egypt in the late 90s and there were very few covered women, mostly elderly but it has changed more recently. I would say be reticent about visiting now, but that's a whole different topic!

Back to the OP - I'm not a Muslim, rather an Atheist lapsed Catholic, so I suspect this is much easier for me (though I did get some shit) That said:

Can your husband helpl? It may not be his preference but because he's said he's okay with your decision (albeit not delighted) he should support you eith his family, because tbh that's what being okay really means. Can you enlist his help?

WaynettaSlobsLover Tue 08-Jan-13 22:14:44

Hi Queen, thankfully dh is wonderful, supportive and very protective of me in terms of his his family. He is slowly getting used to me not wearing the scarf and so are the in laws I think. It's helped enormously talking to Muslims and non Muslims on here because I've been able to get a lot if support and advice :D

crescentmoon Wed 09-Jan-13 07:30:23

i think waynetta and cote will enjoy reading this about another man who shares Turkish ancestry, the Mayor of London Boris Johnson...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/whodoyouthinkyouare/new-stories/boris-johnson/how-we-did-it_1.shtml

his grandfather was born Osman Winfred Kemal but his mother anglicised it to Winfred Johnson and from there the surname carried on lol!

crescentmoon Wed 09-Jan-13 07:30:38
crescentmoon Wed 09-Jan-13 07:32:50

wiLfred sorry, not wiNfred HA..

WaynettaSlobsLover Wed 09-Jan-13 07:49:20

Lmao!!! Had no idea! Thanks for that crescent ;)

CoteDAzur Wed 09-Jan-13 08:19:38

That is fascinating! Thank you crescent.

I can't watch the videos, unfortunately, probably because I'm not in the UK.

Some of the writing doesn't make sense, though. Like, there is no such name as "Celma" in Turkish and the author doesn't seem to know that the letter c is always pronounced j in Turkish.

And this part:

"After the Turkish nationalists were defeated in the First World War... Ali ordered everyone to ignore the extremely popular nationalist Mustafa Kemal, in effect publicly denouncing the man who would later become Turkey's reforming hero, Ataturk"

Ottoman army was defeated in WWI - soldiers of the Padishah. Not many of them were actually Turkish or even Muslim. (Google "Janissary" if you want to why)

Turkish nationalists headed by Ataturk then won the "War of Independence" against invading Allied Nations. That would be why he was 'extremely popular'.

I read a bit about Boris' grandfather here and have to say that the BBC is being very kind to him. After Ottoman Empire lost WWI and was being carved up by Allies, he argued against the resistance (headed by M K Ataturk), set up an Anglophile community and campaigned for an English protectorate status. So basically, a treasonous worm who wanted everyone to put their tails between their hind legs and lick the hand of the enemy so they would be left alive as a British colony but of course not free. (Sorry Boris smile) All this while most of his countrymen are fighting and dying on multiple battlefields. Is anyone surprised that he was lynched?

crescentmoon Wed 09-Jan-13 11:20:31

"So basically, a treasonous worm who wanted everyone to put their tails between their hind legs and lick the hand of the enemy so they would be left alive as a British colony but of course not free."

lol - ha i didnt know you had that kind of fire in you cote. yes we know what British protectorate status did for Palestine. i must admit iv never liked Ataturk - for obvious reasons wink. and so when i read the BBC page about Ali Kemal that he had opposed him i was like 'ahh here is a real man!' until i read that wiki page. its interesting what gets omitted isnt it?how would the history of the region have changed if that had happened i wonder?

iv always found the history of the Janissaries interesting - are you implying that they lost on purpose in WW1?

Jefferson Wed 09-Jan-13 11:37:21

Hi
I have gone back and forth with hijab over the years. I do actually feel it is right to wear hijab (not abaya or the veil) as a woman should cover her hair. I take this from the Quran, Hadith, Scholars etc.

why don't I wear it anymore? A lack of strength on my part I guess. I actually feel very guilty for not wearing. I know I should. I hope one day I have the strength to do so again. I felt uncomfortable and unattractive. I won't ever judge anyone for not wearing or even wearing hijab though.

I don't understand why women who wear hijab are seen as fundamentalist. They feel they are doing what is right. And you can wear Hijab and be liberated, of course you can. When I wore hijab I wore western clothes. Most women (esp younger women) in London who wear hijab wear it with jeans and a top. They seem happy.

I wish women were not judged so harshly for wearing hijab by non-hijabis or non-Muslims.

CoteDAzur Wed 09-Jan-13 12:49:30

crescent - I initially wrote "treasonous no-spine worm" but deleted the middle bit as thought it was a bit harsh grin

It's indeed very interesting how stories change according to who tells them.

"how would the history of the region have changed if that had happened i wonder?"

If colonies elsewhere are any indication, I think it's safe to say that arbitrary borders would be drawn with imaginary nationalities would be bestowed on populations kept ignorant and submissive with brutal puppet dictators in place while natural resources were plundered. Then it would all go pear-shaped with ethnical tensions and ignorant populations would choose religious nuts in democratic elections.

Oh wait...

CoteDAzur Wed 09-Jan-13 13:04:05

"iv always found the history of the Janissaries interesting - are you implying that they lost on purpose in WW1?"

I wouldn't think so. For soldiers, losing a battle usually means death, especially in those days when there was no such thing as Geneva Conventions on treatment of POWs.

My point was that Ottoman Army was comprised mostly of boys taken from conquered lands and assimilated into the Ottoman fold. Even though Janissaries were abolished by the time WWI started (fascinating story, if you are interested), the army was very non-Turkish, especially in the higher echelons. I sort of remember that Germans were called in to modernise & direct the army as well. I was pointing out all this to show that BBC's "Turkish nationalists were defeated in WWI" is a very strange statement to make. The nationalists pulled together an army after WWI was lost, and then they were not defeated as I'm sure British history books would agree.

CoteDAzur Wed 09-Jan-13 13:07:18

"I don't understand why women who wear hijab are seen as fundamentalist."

Because "fundamentalist" means "someone upholding a literal understanding of her holy book" and that is what you are doing when you say "Quran says I should wear headscarf so I wear headscarf".

Fundamentalist doesn't mean "bad person" or whatever you think it means. Just someone who takes it all literally.

Jefferson Wed 09-Jan-13 13:19:58

That may be what 'fundamentalist' literally means CoteDAzur but we all know that when people use the word fundamentalist these days they are saying it in a negative way. The word just conjures up negative associations because its usually used in conjunction with the word terrorist. I don't think the majority of people are using it in the literal sense. It's just a derogatory term.

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