Mumsnet Talk

this might help.

oh dear.

I wonder whether I should watch from behind a cushion, or pop back onto the thread once blood starts seeping out into other threads

And no. I don't feel the need to pick one. I don't believe in religion.

I do believe in god though. <blows raspberry>

I just liked the 'How do you feel about hummus?'.... 'Meh!' bit, mostly.

Oh yes, it's very funny.

I find it unfunny and approaching offensive.

What, you found 'how do you feel about hummus = meh' unfunny and approaching offensive?

I just liked the 'How do you feel about hummus?'.... 'Meh!' bit, mostly.

Oh yes, it's very funny.

sorry. for clarity I should add "because that's what I was saying by replying"

when replying.

Oh, I'm going to bed.

Not sure I understand the hummus choice. Jews love hummus.

Some Jews like pork, and some Muslims are Central European and have never been within 100miles of hummus. Irrelevant and stupid.

Now if it had asked about feelings of generalised guilt, or an irrepressible urge to feed people, say, that might have been vaguely amusing.

Not just the hummus thing, all of it.

I thought it was enjoyably silly and didn't single out any particular brand of superstition for nasty opprobrium but treated them all with the sort of amused disdain they merit.

Hummus and bacon make an oddly nice sandwich combination.

Why is it offensive?

I don't understand. It's silly, and funny, but I can't see the offence. Can you explain?

Considering that most people with a religious belief follow the same religion their parents do, deciding a belief structure based on your feelings towards hummus is no less arbitrary.

"treated them all with the sort of amused disdain they merit."

Perhaps because I do not feel that organised religion merits disdain, I find such behaviour slightly offensive.

If people's belief in the Great Flying Sandwich, and conscientious practice of the Communal Serviette and the Tiffin Ritual, helps them to behave with integrity, then IMO that belief does not merit disdain.

And the fact the some or even many do not use their belief to consciously behave with integrity is not a reason to mock those who do.

But as we are coming from completely opposite standpoints, I doubt we'll accept each other's POV!

Of course religion merits disdain. It is fundamentally ridiculous to believe in gods, though many people do so fairly harmlessly and should be left to get on with it.

Why? The absence of proof of existence is not proof of non-existence.

Which is why you believe in Allah, Shiva, Ra, Inti, Thor, Zeus, Jupiter, Gukumatz, Tiamat, Andraste, and every other god and goddess ever thought up.

Not I.

Those are merely names given by humans to the feel

iPhone!

They are names used by humans trying to understand that which can neither be proven nor disproven. The name is not the thing.

You've got no proof that they are not all distinct and different gods.

That's right. And no proof that they are, either. Nor proof that they exist anywhere outside the human mind. Nor that they don't.

Atheists and theists believe in different yet equally unprovable concepts.

For some reason atheists feel that this gives them the right to mock and deride theists. Theists, OTOH, rarely mock atheists.

Yet even though you admit you have no proof for your implication that all these gods and goddesses are the same thing under different names, it's an assertion you felt comfortable to make.

Theists have a long and sordid history of imprisoning, torturing and killing atheists for their lack of belief.

Alexander Aan in Indonesia was attacked in the street and is currently under the threat of years of imprisonment for merely questioning the existence of god.

A teenager in America called Jessica Ahlquist has been on the receiving end of a barrage of insults, bullying and threats of physical violence for the "crime" of asking a court to uphold the American constitution and to get a school to remove a prayer that was hung on a wall.

The Queen Mary Atheism society had to call off a talk about Sharia law and human rights before it had even started after intimidation and threats of violence from theist protesters.

. And that's just a few examples of theists treating atheists like second-class citizens that have happened in the last week.

You're right in saying that theists rarely merely mock atheists. Evidence suggests they're more likely to threaten, demand special rights, and indoctrinate our children in our schools. Anyway I don't know many atheists who would mind too much for being mocked for their non-belief. It would be preferable to what really happens.

"Yet even though you admit you have no proof for your implication that all these gods and goddesses are the same thing under different names, it's an assertion you felt comfortable to make. "

I did not say this at all.

The rest of your post, however, i accept completely.

Extremism and intolerance are wrong. I don't deny that people attempt to use religion to justify vicious intolerance and vile behaviour.

Perhaps it was naive of me to extrapolate the tolerant, relatively gentle world of MN to RL! Nonetheless, the fact that I believe one way does not entitle me to force that belief (or unbelief, for that matter) on anyone else. The same goes for mockery.