DofE to remove 10 day holiday absence option during term time

(72 Posts)
jmspbro Wed 12-Jun-13 21:28:16
Lorelailovesluke Wed 12-Jun-13 21:31:22

Nope, I agree with the rules

Euphemia Wed 12-Jun-13 21:33:23

Same here - I've seen the damage that term-time holidays do to pupils' academic progress, so I won't be signing.

An education is a right, a holiday is a privilege.

scaevola Wed 12-Jun-13 21:34:52

There's been a few threads about this.

It's less than it seems.

It remains a maximum of 10 days at head's discretion in exceptional circumstances.

All that has gone is the verbiage mentioning holidays (which were only included as an example of something potentially exceptional, not as a right).

So now, as before, if to can convince your head that your circumstances are exceptional, the absence can be authorised. Some heads, however, do want to see children in school in term (for the good of both individual and school community) and are hard/impossible to persuade.

HandbagAddiction Wed 12-Jun-13 21:35:39

I don't understand. Schools don't authorise this absence even now, so I cannot see what the change is.

On the other hand, if you do need to take your children out of school for whatever reason, they cannot actually physically stop you from doing it whether the regulations have changed or not. So again, I'm not sure i understand what the issue is.

Don't want anyone to think by my response that i am a big supporter of taking your children out of school by the way. I do understand that many families really have no choice due to personal circumstances. I have also done it myself once.

Hulababy Wed 12-Jun-13 21:35:53

For non exam years tbh I can't see that missing a couple of weeks of school in a year will negatively affect the vast majority of children's long term education.

I have been a secondary school teacher for many years, and now a HLTA in primary. My experience is that most children don't suffer from a family holiday in term time. And tbh, it doesn't make that much difference to the teachers either.

And for some families, they don't have the option of non term time holidays due to set holidays in their work places. How will these be accommodated?

And what about family events in term time - weddings, baptisms, funerals, ill relative abroad, etc?

Hulababy Wed 12-Jun-13 21:36:50

"It remains a maximum of 10 days at head's discretion in exceptional circumstances."

Ah, x posts. So, actually pupils can be off school at the head's discretion? No different to now really then.

pepsi77 Wed 12-Jun-13 21:43:23

Never experiencing a family holiday has surely got to be more detrimental to a child/children than having just 5 days or even 10 days off school a year.

vess Wed 12-Jun-13 21:54:39

Signed.

jamtoast12 Wed 12-Jun-13 22:05:49

A lot of people who disagree with term time holidays are people who can afford to take holidays in the breaks. If it means a child gets a holiday then term time is better than non at all!

We took dds to lapland in dec, they missed 3 school days consisting of Xmas parties and Xmas movies! The school were fine but I never asked for permission... I told them as I'd have gone anyway as flights were on set days. Of course i wuldnt go during importang events like sats etc. people generally only go in term time because they have to. With the new rules, people will just make up more exceptional excuses so it won't change a thing.

hopingforbest Wed 12-Jun-13 22:37:51

In my kids school people don't go away for skiing jaunts or slightly cheaper trips to disneyland - it's generally lower income families, and first generation immigrants, who go back to very far away places to visit family and friends. sometimes the summer holidays - which are short - coincide with the rainy season back home - and only the summer holidays will do.

I would have worded the petition differently to make it sound less like people taking time off for a happy family jaunt (even though I think they should be allowed to do that too).

Bunnyjo Wed 12-Jun-13 23:07:01

DD has 3 days 'holiday absence' booked for the last 3 days of term - the HT granted this without hesitation.

Our circumstances are exceptional though - my godfather (who lives in Cyprus, I'm half Greek Cypriot) has suffered a TIA and 4 strokes in the last year, he is literally on borrowed time. His daughter (my cousin) lives in Australia and is going to Cyprus in June, but she flies back out to Australia on 19th July.

We are flying out on 17th July to get a couple of days with the whole family, it's quite possibly the last time this will happen sad

learnandsay Wed 12-Jun-13 23:19:57

Afford will depend on what type of holiday you take. If you go to stay with your brother's family in Kent for four days it's hardly going to cost an arm and a leg. But if you want to fly to Malaga in mid holiday season, well, discuss it with your bank manager.

savoirfaire Wed 12-Jun-13 23:27:05

So what about in private schools? And what about (state or private) when the expensive school trip that only certain kids go on leaves school a day or two before the end of term. Will these children be fined/kicked out?

mrz Thu 13-Jun-13 07:01:50

It doesn't apply to private schools and school trips are counted as education off sight.

Feenie Thu 13-Jun-13 07:02:23

This will cause an even greater divide between private schools, who typically have 17 weeks holiday, compared to 13 weeks holiday in state schools - prices are nowhere near as inflated in those weeks in July where private schools gave finished.

Gove should have made sure the travel industry was subject to regulation first.

Feenie Thu 13-Jun-13 07:02:59

Have finished

amimagic Thu 13-Jun-13 07:08:08

I've signed this.

My children learn a vast amount from a week's holiday with the family - way more than the comparable period at school.

Good, responsible parents should not be dictated to to this extent.

mummytime Thu 13-Jun-13 07:18:01

Signed.

But I'm more concerned about the provision for schools to be able to "kick out" pupils who don't reach the required standard for Sixth Form, especially with the requirement for such children to be receiving education or training until 18 now. In some areas there may not be an alternative to the local school, especially as over 16s have to pay all transport costs.

Ozfrazror Thu 13-Jun-13 07:25:51

My parents regularly took us out of school for up to 3 weeks for family holidays. They didn't do it during exam years but I don't think these regular absences from school did any harm whatsoever. My brother and I both achieved 3 top A levels, a 2:1 and a 1:1 degree and my DB continued on to get his Doctorate.

Now that I have a family myself I appreciate even more how valuable a family holiday is. It is not just a case of a jolly in the sun, it is about focused family time without the day to day grind in the way. We have been fortunate enough to have somekind of annual holiday recently and the improvement to everbody's mood, the feeling of security and happinness within the family unit and the amount of time we have been able to spend playing with the dc is immeasurable. I am not prepared to have that benefit to my family taken away by a dictatorial government. Frankly I'm surprised they Gov have nothing better to sort out within the education system.

Please Mr Gove, just leave struggling families alone to enjoy a bit of hard earned time together - a chance to forget about the bloody deficit and constant pressures on income for 2 weeks!

scaevola Thu 13-Jun-13 07:35:26

The legislation bringing this in was passed in 2011, so I doubt a petition now will have much effect.

Actually, there is no material change since the 1996 Act, as it's still 10 days and still HT's discretion. All that has been removed are the examples of things that might be considered "exceptional", as they were so widely misinterpreted as an entitlement, not an illustration.

The only change in substance was in 2003, when Labour introduced fines.

MrsMelons Thu 13-Jun-13 08:13:34

This is no different to what our school does now so I can't see any difference, if I want to take my DCs out of school I will but I would prefer not to once past infant school TBH.

I thought it was 10 sessions not 10 days (thats what our HT told us), maybe that was to do with the fines?!

The fact is that some children will be completely unaffected by a couple of weeks off a year but some children who are persistantly late or absent, a further 2 weeks could be awful for them.

I am astonished how bad attendance is in schools, my son is in a school of 120 and their target is 95% but their actual rate is 92%. My son had the 2nd highest attendance this year and we took him out for a days holiday. The highest attendance wasn't even 100% as they had half a day off.

tiggytape Thu 13-Jun-13 08:21:24

But even now it isn't supposed to be a 10 day holiday option so this shoudldn't be a major change.
It is supposed to be an absolute maximum of 10 days granted in exceptional circumstances. However some schools interpret this as nothing short of a family death whereas others think wanting to go to Florida when its not too hot in August counts.

MadeOfStarDust Thu 13-Jun-13 09:17:06

That 10 days has to encompass any unforeseen stuff too...... if you have already taken them off for a holiday, then a relative dies or you HAVE to be somewhere else quickly, then the head has no "at their discretion" left.... and it is marked as unauthorised.. and you could be fined for going to a funeral - though discretion was awarded for a holiday.... nuts...

Bramshott Thu 13-Jun-13 09:21:19

Sorry, as others have said, this is really NOT a change. Heads are under increasing pressure not to authorise term time holidays, and LEAs are making increasing use of their right to fine people for authorised absence.

However, the bottom line remains the same - however oversubscribed, the school cannot remove your child's place as long as you don't take them out for more than 10 days in an academic year.

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