Psychopathy , long sorry

(23 Posts)
Esmeismyhero Thu 30-Jul-15 08:52:24

Please be gentle with me, I'm very concerned and will probably out myself with this post but I'm genuinely concerned and want to help my dd.

My dd who is 3 was born missing some of her cranial nerves, this is important. She could have a nerve graph in a few hrs but I have refused since I think it's her decision.

These last few months I have noticed she processes emotions and situations differently. I at first thought it could be a phase but looking at her behavior since she was 1 I don't think it is.

for example:

My sister has a baby (18 months now) and dd has never been very kind to her but it's the way she shows no remorse. Dd hurts Dn, I explain that's not very nice and we don't hurt other people. She laughs and says but I wanted to and says sorry if she wants to.

She's not scared of anything at all. She doesn't think twice about jumping from something high or running away from me. She's fearless.

She is not kind to animals at all, I have to be very careful not to leave the cat alone with her, no matter how much I show her to be kind with the cat or ask her why she would do something that could hurt him she just says she wanted to do it. We haven't been to the zoo since she punched, actually punched a lorikeet.

There are lots of other examples but I don't want the post to be too long.

She's under a neurologist and I have spoken to the gp and HV after an incident at nursery (she smashed a wooden cot and wouldn't stop, when asked to stop and listen she said she didn't want to and she wanted to smash) the hv and gp don't have any concerns in regards to her mental health.

I have brought this up with my husband that I think it is something else, I just have a feeling and as I explained to my husband, she is missing nerves etc what's to say her brain doesn't process information properly.

I think she might suffer from psychopathy? I feel stupid even thinking this but I love dd to much to just brush my concerns under the carpet and not address this as early as possible.

What if she needs extra help and not that I would treat her differently but what would work with my ds might not work with dd because she processes emotion and information differently.

Has anyone ever been through this? Dh and I are going to talk to the HV again about our concerns and talk to a child psychologist.

I love her so much, she is funny, charming and beautiful. She has so many good points so I don't want anyone to think the above is all I think about because I don't.

She is everything to me, she had a shitty start in life, she couldn't feed properly because of her facial disfigurement etc, countless eye infections and she wears glasses.

Please tell me what you think? Mumsnet is my rock since I wouldn't discuss this in rl.

MrsDeVere Thu 30-Jul-15 09:07:05

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MrsDeVere Thu 30-Jul-15 09:18:35

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Baffledmumtoday Thu 30-Jul-15 09:25:06

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Esmeismyhero Thu 30-Jul-15 10:12:38

She has had a lot of examinations, been under general, mris, blood tests, an operation and follow ups.

Because her syndrome is very rare we find a lot of doctors tend to swarm her when she is in hospital. One dr in particular is lovely but tries to keep dd in for silly reasons to observe her when in fact I overheard him once describing dd as "a fascinating case".

My dh and I are very calm people, we never argue in front of the kids, not that we argue a lot anyway. We have lots of family around, so she had regular play mates. We have a large garden with swings, trampoline, slides so she has lots of outside play.

I'm very arty so we do lots of crafts and her painting is amazing. What im trying to get across is that she's not isolated or bored, she has down time as well and we got her her own iPad so she can do puzzles and watch her films (we don't have a tv).

Esmeismyhero Thu 30-Jul-15 10:14:12

She has her own room so she has space when she wants it. I'm a sahm so I'm around 24/7 but she goes to nursery 3 hours a day. So lots of variety.

MrsDeVere Thu 30-Jul-15 10:58:00

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Esmeismyhero Thu 30-Jul-15 13:28:30

Thank you everyone, I have called the HV and said out loud what I feel and they have referred us to the community pead.

I explained that she is a lovely girl and also my concerns. It feels so wrong to say it out loud per say. I love her with all my heart and it feels wrong saying her negative points as she is only a little girl.

But I would be wrong not helping her. I spoke to my sister as she sees dd everyday and she agrees with me, she pointed out its not just me but nursery and family who have noticed as well.

Does anyone know what I should expect?

Baffledmumtoday Thu 30-Jul-15 13:39:18

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MrsDeVere Thu 30-Jul-15 15:56:49

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DangerGrouse Thu 30-Jul-15 19:32:13

Just a bit of reassurance for you.
This is only if, IF it turns out your daughter has a psychopathic brain or tendencies. It has been shown that adult psychopaths who were deeply loved and cared for as children are much less likely to grow up to be violent or nasty 'psychopathic' adults. They are perhaps a bit less thoughtful and caring about specific things but they don't all turn into what we think of as true psychopaths.
Either way, your daughter will be fine because you are giving her a lovely childhood.
That's all I know so I thought you should know this too and be reassured. Xxx

Esmeismyhero Thu 30-Jul-15 19:36:11

Thank you mrsd I feel worried and guilty. I feel as if I'm "bad mouthing" her by pointing out her negatives but I know that's not the case it's just me being silly.

She is a lovely girl, she looks after her things and toys, she sings beautifully, she's fab at ballet. Her drawings are lovely and I think she's beautiful inside and out.

It hurts sometimes when people point out things to me for eg: my sister is obviously upset because my dd had hurt her baby and she resent dd because it's not nice and she shows no remorse etc. Sis then says I should reprimand her more etc but I won't because I won't keep telling her off for the same thing that's ludicrous.

Dd doesn't like to share HER toys and she doesn't like people, apart from me, in her room (she has everything how she likes it, she likes her room tidy and organized and her cousins and brother will mess it all up to annoy her) so I don't push her to share her toys because my son has his own toys and I'll ask Dd for a selection of toys that my nieces can play with when they are here so she doesn't get stressed out.

But my sis gets upset because she thinks dd should share and let the others into her room but I won't force her too.

Sorry I'm rambling, I'm trying to justify myself sad

Esmeismyhero Thu 30-Jul-15 19:37:46

Thank you danger flowers

ABTwife Thu 30-Jul-15 19:55:43

Nothing you have said is outside of the norm for many 3 year olds.

'Psychopathy' is dissocial personality disorder. You cannot have a personality disorder where that personality is not fully developed (or on the way to being fully developed) and three years old is years and years away from that.

A diagnosis of personality disorder should not be made until adulthood. It could be suggested that someone younger than that mat have traits of a personality disorder or an emerging personality disorder but not before teenage years and with substantial evidence of risk to self or others. You probably saw the 15 year old who killed his teacher last year. The Psychiatrist suggested he had traits of dissocial PD but stopped short of a diagnosis in a 15 year old and that was an extreme case of murder by a teen.

I work in MH and cannot imagine any professional even having the idea in their mind when seeing a three year old.

Your DD may have some issues but please please don't cause yourself stress thinking psychopathy is the reason.

Meerka Thu 30-Jul-15 21:58:58

Some people do seem to be wired up differently. Some seem to be born that way, others have a damaging environment. Clearly that's not the situation for you, you are doing absolutely everything you can.

I think you need to get that scan you talked about, the neurological one. You want to leave it for her decision but given that you and several others have question marks, you need as much information as you can get.

As dangergrouse says, most of the literature and research seems to say that children who are born with the potential for anti-social personality disorder (pyschopathy) can become relatively normal and decent members of society. A lot of it depends on how they are treated when they are young, in most situations.

Not disputing the main focus of your article, but in one small instance: actually I think your daughter liking control over who goes into her room is pretty normal, even young. Your sister is not right here; your daughter is.

Esmeismyhero Thu 30-Jul-15 22:02:56

meerka sorry it's not a scan, it would be a nerve graph. They graph a nerve from her leg into her brain, it's very invasive and only a 20% success rate so I would want her to decide if she wanted the procedure.

I think sister is wrong too.

TheFormidableMrsC Thu 30-Jul-15 22:06:25

OP, my little boy, aged 4, has exactly the same "symptoms" as your DD. In January he was diagnosed with Aspergers after 18 months of assessments. Now we have the right support, we're getting there, he's a different child.

Meerka Thu 30-Jul-15 22:18:43

I misread, sorry. You did say nerve graph.

Eleleleo Mon 03-Aug-15 10:28:33

I also work in MH and completely agree with ABTwife. She is way way too young for this to even be considered. Ive known children with very similar behavioural issues (and worse) at 3 who have turned into lovely empathic 5 year olds. I hope you get some reassurance from the paediatricians.
A side issue - why do you think she is old enough at 3 to decide on nerve grafts? I wouldnt have thought she'd have anywhere near the understanding to weigh up the pros and cons.

Baffledmumtoday Mon 03-Aug-15 10:49:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Noeuf Mon 03-Aug-15 11:29:18

Do you mean nerve graft? Because I was thinking the same as meerka; that information from a nerve graph would show what was missing and what effect it might have, whereas I can totally see why you wouldn't want a nerve graft.
I would see the paediatrician and go from there. Is there a support group or charity devoted to her condition, which could help?

RolyPolierThanThou Mon 03-Aug-15 11:39:40

Your dd sounds like my 3 yo ds (no known neurological issues). I think you would have a much better idea of whether she isdeveloping normally when she is older, and empathy is not still in its infancy.

I dont think my 3yo has developed empathy yet. He's horrid to his younger brother and seems not bothered about making him cry our hurting him. But he's only three.

We keep emphasising how ds2 must be feeling, pointing out he's upset to try to encourage ds1 to recognise distress in others. We tell him off for certain behaviors (hitting, kicking and pushing) in the same way we tackle other unwanted behaviors (throwing food, bashing cutlery) even thigh it doesn't seem to sink in.

Only 3yo, remember. I'd say wait a bit (though you're not wrong to be watching this, in light of the brain differences you know about)

Eleleleo Tue 04-Aug-15 11:36:26

Ah yes i see what you mean baffled! Sorry op!

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