Questions about SIDS & putting baby in own room, sorry if thi isn't the right place.

(50 Posts)
shouldIbecrossaboutthis Sat 29-Dec-12 00:01:35

My Ds is 12 weeks today and has slept from 10/11pm-9/10am since about 6 weeks old. I'd like to move him out of the bedside cot and into his own room in the next few weeks because the bedside cot is getting too small. We've started doing day time naps in his room and everything is going ok.

I know the guildlines for SIDS are not to put them in their own rooms before 6 months, but does anyone know why? If there is a reason then I'll keep him in with us, I'm not one to take chances. But if it's just a worldwide rule based on various factors then I might make more of a personal decision.

Anyone know? Thanks!

sedgieloo Sat 29-Dec-12 01:41:46

This is from memory having read something some while back. I think when a closer look was taken at instances of SIDS, many of the deaths the infant was not in the same room as parents. Additionally for this reason the advice applies to all sleeps. Naps and nights.

This particular article considered other specifics surrounding the deaths such as time chd had last been checked and time of day etc. sorry I can't reference or just now. It was these details which formed the basis for the conclusions and so the advice to patents.

littletingoddess Sat 29-Dec-12 01:48:09

I was told by a health visitor that the parents' breathing helps to regulate the baby's breathing, which reduces the risk of SIDS. I suppose the logic is that this helps the baby's body to 'remember' to breathe. It may or may not be true but we ended up keeping our DD in our room until she was seven months old.

cheesebaby Sat 29-Dec-12 02:07:54

It's because babies sleeping alone are at greater risk of SIDS than babies sharing a room with a caregiver; see here for the details of relevant studies.

DD has slept in her own room since 4 weeks. No regrets here - she slept through and kept us awake in our room.

CoolaYuleA Sat 29-Dec-12 02:12:43

The incidence of SIDS is higher in babies who sleep in a different room to their parents. Therefore putting a child into it's own room before six months places them at higher risk of SIDS than keeping them in with you.

As sedgie says - the guidelines apply to ALL periods of sleep, both naps and nights. My family takes part in the studies that inform the guidelines due to a family history of SIDS. DD is the latest family member and she was monitored from birth to 10 months. She slept (still does) in our room at night and always naps downstairs.

As littletin says the research indicates that hearing the parents breath helps to regulate the baby's breathing. Breathing is a reflex, and for small babies it is very new. It is thought that the body may simply 'forget' to breathe, either because it's such a new thing, or because the baby may be in a very deep sleep. Being in the same room as the parents means that the noises made by the parents whilst asleep will prevent the baby sleeping too deeply, but there is some evidence that that hearing breathing triggers the reflex.

By the age of six months the reflex and the nerves that stimulate the breathing are believed to be sufficiently developed that it is considered far less likely that a baby's body will 'forget' to breathe - and at that point it is safe for a child to go into it's own room. (Unless there is a reason not to, such as in our case).

It is really believed to be massively important that a baby sleeps in the same room as the parents. One of the FSID taglines is "Sleep safe, sleep sound, share a room with me."

shouldIbecrossaboutthis Sat 29-Dec-12 12:28:11

Thanks everyone for the advice, I didn't realise about parents breathing acting as a guide for the baby.

I thought it might have been risk of suffocation (but we use a gro bag), over heating (we use a thermometer), lack of supervision (we have a monitor with sensor mat), sleeping in tummy (he goes on his back in a sleep positioner) etc. I thought we had countered all the risks if that makes sense?

But I suppose there is nothing that you can use to trigger a breathing reflex! I'd like to read more about this, does anyone know where to look?

Skiffen Sat 29-Dec-12 12:36:28

If you go via the fsid website, i think it's in a bit for professionals, there's a lot of statistical info from large meta-analyses. Iirc, and i may not & i can't check as on phone, its a x9 risk for sleeping in a separate room.
I have linked to it before on a similarly titled thread. Will check when i can get online.

dishwashervodkaanddietirnbru Sat 29-Dec-12 12:41:25

I dont think sleep positioners are recommended as there have been babies that have suffocated after moving into dangerous positions while using them

FestiveFiggy Sat 29-Dec-12 12:48:34

In terms of breathing regulators I've heard that people use a ticking clock in the babies room not sure if it actually reduces risk though

Skiffen Sat 29-Dec-12 12:55:20

No one knows the mechanism by which parents' breathing regulates the infant's. It may not be sound but chemoreceptors responding to increased co2 that the adults have expired. We are all stimulated to breathe by rising co2 levels, so that makes sense too.

dishwashervodkaanddietirnbru Sat 29-Dec-12 12:55:53

p.s. there is also no evidence that the monitors help prevent SIDs. From sids website:

There is no evidence that movement monitors (also known as apnoea or breathing monitors) prevent cot death. Babies can and do die whilst on a monitor. They are designed to sound an alarm after 20 seconds if they can’t detect a baby’s breathing movement. They cannot detect a blocked airway until breathing movements stop.

Ameybee Sat 29-Dec-12 17:32:03

I work in a children's hospital & have always been told it is because the noise you make in the same room whilst sleeping prevents the baby from going into a very deep sleep then suffering apnea (stopping breathing) hence why overheating also important as they get hot - go into deep sleep and can stop breathing. We have breathing monitor aswell & I always prefer to err on side of caution. I bought a cheap cot from eBay (got new mattress) that fit in our room when our first outgrew Moses basket. We've used it second time round. Could you fit a travel cot in at all? You can buy comfier mattresses for them quite cheaply x

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Sat 29-Dec-12 17:38:51

a lot of sleep positioners have been recalled, they're considered dangerous because if the baby flips they can be stuck and suffocate (I used one with no1 and that one was recalled, I had to throw it away as couldn't sell something that was now considered unsafe)

apparently you can't rescussitate "true" SIDS, so by the time a motion monitor alerts you it's too late

monitor doesn't really tell you anything other than when the baby is okay and wants you, doesn't tell you when they're not okay

yes they "sleep better" i.e. deeper in their own room, but you don't want them sleeping TOO deeply and going into apnoea, they get jolted out of apnoea by hearing your movements and breathing apparently

shouldIbecrossaboutthis Sat 29-Dec-12 20:18:10

The only reason I want to move him is because he is off the charts for height and doesn't fit in the bedside cot, we all sleep fine where he is.

I know a monitor etc wont prevent sids, but I wondered if the rule about them being in your room was linked to other risks. So if they are in your room, you hear them breathing, see them going under the blankets, feel the room was too hot. I didn't know (and that's why I started this thread) what is was about being in the room that was important.

I get that it's our breathing now. Different studies say different risks, but I can't find a study that explains why the risk is greater in their own room. Just that it is.

Ameybee Sat 29-Dec-12 21:17:23

Its probably just a combination of things why they are safer in with you. I know lots of people who have put them in their own room earlier & its all been fine. I just know I personally wouldn't settle. Hope you figure out what works best for you xxx grin

Ameybee Sat 29-Dec-12 21:18:53

Ps we put our bedside tables in garage to accommodate a normal sized cot in our room (cot bed we had too big). Maybe you could jig furniture about? X

shouldIbecrossaboutthis Sun 30-Dec-12 00:03:35

sadly we just don't have the space, all we have in the room in a king size bed, headboard and fitted wardrobes. I think I might just put him in the bed with us. Will have to see if it's the same safety wise.

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Sun 30-Dec-12 00:08:36

can you fit a single in the baby's room with the cot in there too then and go in there for a few months?

CoolaYuleA Sun 30-Dec-12 00:15:34

Sleep positioners of any type are definitely not recommended - see the FAQ section of the FSID website for more information ref that.

The main issue with SIDS is that despite all the research (my family has been involved for thirty years - lots of babies!) there is still no definitive answer as to why some babies die.

Therefore there is no definitive answer to your question explaining WHY the risk of them being in their own room is greater.

There is evidence though. From the thousands of babies studied the research has shown that sleeping in a separate room under six months doubles the risk of SIDS. link to research So whilst there is still no definitive WHY, analysis of babies who have died from SIDS, and their environment, show that of the recorded deaths the number of babies who were in their own room when they died was significantly higher than the number of babies who were room-sharing with their parent/s (primary caregivers).

For me the evidence is enough - whilst I would like to know why, all I really need to know is that babies are clearly at significantly higher risk of SIDS in their own room than they are in the parents room. This is borne out by the fact that more babies die in their own rooms than in with their parents. The why isn't as important as the evidence.

CoolaYuleA Sun 30-Dec-12 00:24:31

Bedsharing isn't recommended either unfortunately. Studies have shown that there is an increase in risk (this is actually a new research to me).

Research

Pages 1, 7-11.

My DD grew out of her moses basket really quickly too - have you thought about a crib? They are longer than a moses basket, but not significantly wider - in fact with the handles, stand etc the outside dimensions of the basket were wider than our crib. They aren't expensive either - we got ours from Kiddicare for about £50 and it was perfectly fine for DD until she was past six months.

This might be a good compromise if you can't fit the cot in, but DS is too big for the moses basket.

CoolaYuleA Sun 30-Dec-12 00:32:12

This is the crib we have, it's gone up since we bought ours, but it's really well made and DD slept great in it.

Ignore the bumper though, as they aren't recommended either (so many things aren't, tis a minefield lol!) - we have these, first on the crib, now on the cot Airwrap.

IIRC rebreathing exhaled air has been put forward as a possible cause, and some studies claim that bumpers can trap exhaled air in the cot - airwraps protect the baby from bumps but are completely breathable.

We bought this crib mattress (also had the matching one in the moses basket) following consultation with our CONI adviser at FSID.

sedgieloo Sun 30-Dec-12 12:57:16

Related question please - given theories on baby hearing parents breathing and regulating their own breathing and it interrupting apnea, any thoughts on (fairly loud) white noise whilst sleeping in the same room?

This is what I do (ocean) not realising what's behind the room sharing.

Op apologies for a bit of a hijack.

Zimbah Sun 30-Dec-12 16:16:07

CoolYule that's interesting on bedsharing. I bedshare and thought that as long as it was safely done it didn't increase SIDS risks, but obviously this is a new analysis. I wonder if the underlying papers that fed into the analysis are accessible without Medline access, I'd be interested to read them. It's a good thing I'm not planning on any more DCs as I don't know how I'd get through it without bedsharing but not sure I would want to take the risk if it's how it appears.

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Sun 30-Dec-12 16:20:19

I used white noise but just to get the baby off to sleep, once settled I turned it off, do you leave it on all the time? I think its the deep sleep periods that are the dangerous bits from the sounds of it

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