DS aged 4 really demanding. Is this an 'only' thing?

[StableButBeheaded]

Hi, I'm feeling a bit miserable tonight after a generally crap day, and would appreciate a bit of advice.

DS was four last month went to bed in tears because I finally lost my temper and refused to read to him at bedtime after he told me I was 'not a nice mummy' because I refused to play yet another game with him. This after a whole day of me almost constantly entertaining & playing with him & listening to him.

He has always been a bit clingy as a toddler but as he's grown it seems that he cannot entertain himself at all and it is really starting to get to me. From the time he gets up he expects me or DH to play games constantly with him & goes into a huff if we say no.
He talks incessantly, and I mean really non-stop so that if I'm not actually playing with him he'll hover near me & I'm constantly expected to listen to him and answer questions. I usually feel mentally exhausted by the time he goes to bed because I feel like I've been talked 'at' all day.

The minute I leave the room, even when I've told him I'm going to the loo or something, he shouts 'Mummy, where are you?' & comes looking for me. He hates it when I try to do housework or talk on the phone. Even if DH & I try to talk to each other, even just a few sentences, he constantly butts in or does something to get attention back to himself. He even wants one of us to sit with him when he's just watching TV.

Today I've tried to to be patient, but it's just so full-on all the time I feel stressed & irritable and so I snapped at him when he said I was not nice.

I know little children are demanding...it's their job but surely this level of attention seeking is a bit much at this age? Is it because he's an 'only' and so has probably always had attention? I just have no idea how to go about dealing with it without feeling like I'm rejecting him.

[MadBadAndWieldingAnAxe]

Hmm. My daughter was a bit like that, but I think it's more of a four year old thing than an "only" thing. I used to agree with her that I would come and play after I'd done whatever I needed to do. Or could your son (say) draw at the kitchen table while you do the washing-up, so that he's not alone but you can concentrate on something else? Does he got to nursery or pre-school or anywhere else where he can let off steam?

The thing which irritated me most (still does) is the interrupting. DH and I just don't respond if dd butts in rudely (and we explain why). We're always happy to speak with her but normal rules of good manners apply!

[StableButBeheaded]

He won't draw or do anything on his own, even with me in the room. It always has to be me doing it with him. If I refuse outright I still can't concentrate on anything because he talks so much and insists on answers (so I can't just tune him out).

I do try to agree that I will play 'after i've finished cooking/tidying/whatever, but he doesn't accept it & says things like 'Hummph well I want to play now I'm NOT waiting, I WON'T' which goes on and on and drives me up the wall. I've even resorted to setting the kitchen timer for, say, 20 minutes, showing it to him and saying 'I will play when the timer goes off' in the hope that I will be left alone to do something I need to do, but alas, no joy.

He goes to state nursery every morning for two and a half hours which he loves, and three days a week his childminder collects him from school and I collect him at 5pm. School & childminder both say he's very well-behaved, so I think this demanding thing is reserved for me & DH.

[Heated]

It's cos he's 4 and very ready for school Can you get him dusting, hoovering and cooking alongside you? And an hour in front of CBeebies or Shrek with a snack and drink will be VERY educational (and give you a well deserved break).

[MadBadAndWieldingAnAxe]

I don't know what else to suggest. I think you do need to persuade him that you need some time to do other things, but I'm stumped about how. How long did you do the timer thing for? Could you stick to your guns with that?

I hope someone will come along with some new ideas.

[choosyfloosy]

This is why my first toast when out with friends is always 'The 1870 Education Act'.

Ds is an only and was a bit like what your son sounds like. Does he have friends? Can you kidnap get some more? We are absolutely shameless, I borrow children all day long, it feels sometimes like constant begging on the phone just to get someone else's child for a couple of hours. We sometimes have 3 play sessions a day with different kids around here.

Is there a local teenager who does babysitting and can be asked over to play with ds for an hour and bunged a fiver for doing so? May seem a bit like buying a sibling, but hell, why not?

Consider having a big push on teaching him to read? Didn't work for ds - he clammed up and I had to ease off - but if it clicks with your ds, oh boy!!! If not, what about audio CDs, any good? DS has only really got into them aged 5 but maybe I could have tried earlier. The having to sit with them with whatever they do is hard. The timer could help, stick with it.

Also, from about 3 I got ds to go to the postbox with a letter for me, and from 4 sometimes up and down the road on his bike a bit (there just aren't enough other children on our street to do more than a few minutes tbh).

What games do you dread least like most? Maybe more adult ones like draughts or chess could be an option? I'm lucky enough to like board and card games - are you playing Uno? I find it the least annoying of all games. Try teaching him clock patience?

Most of all, hang on in there - Year 1 is coming to save you.

[choosyfloosy]

Maybe try singing with him? I used to do that with ds when I simply felt I could not say another word without breaking down crying.

[StableButBeheaded]

Heated you may be right. Obviously he just missed out on going to reception class this september, so will be one of the oldest in the class. Health visitor recently saw him and said he was very bright and 'obviously' ready for school, then muttered darkly about us probably 'having problems' when he actually starts

He does adore 'helping' round the house and I do try to give him little jobs. Cbeebies or Shrek would be great if he would watch it on his own sometimes. I do sit with him to watch TV as it is a bit of a break for me too, but I need to do other stuff sometimes, obviously. If I get up to make a cup of tea he grabs me and says I 'must' stay sitting with him.

On the one hand I try to think that it's nice to be so wanted, but sometimes it feels so intense that I feel I can't have a minute to myself so I get really irritable. I guess I'm worrying that he wants too much attention, and wondering why is he like this? Is it something I've caused by always giving him attention on demand in the past?

He is an IVF baby, i had him after 10 years of infertility and we had half given up hope of children when I became pregnant. Even as a baby he would cry if I left the room, and he hated going anywhere where there were more than a few people. I used to try to meet up with the other mums from my ante-natal class, but he would cry the whole time & only stop if I took him outside. When he started toddling he would actually pull me to people's front doors to leave, while the other seven toddlers were happy playing with the toys...they never seemed bothered by their surroundings.

He is very loving also though, and is always giving me kisses & cuddles and telling me he loves me and he's my 'best friend' and how he doesn't want to grow up and live with 'another lady'

[sticktoyourgins]

There is no such thing as "only child" behaviour.

[StableButBeheaded]

Yes, I have thought about trying to teach him to read...he is very interested in words. In fact it's a big part of the constant talking, because he's always asking me what words on TV or on letters or magazines say. And road signs whilst in the car.
The game I dread most is 'Ivanhoe' He saw a cartoon version of it on holiday, and also went to a jousting/medieval tournament around the same time, so is obsessed with it. I either have to sword-fight with him (which I detest because he wants me to keep falling down on the floor and I'm neither young nor lightweight!) or I have to pretend to be Lady Rowena to his Ivanhoe and float around saying things like 'Oh Ivanhoe, I am skilled in the art of healing, let me tend to your wounds' etc

Haven't tried Uno, we do snakes and ladders & jigsaws and I like doing those sorts of things. Just not all day....

[choosyfloosy]

Respect to the snakes and ladders, I loathe it. I have to remove myself to another plane while we play it. Quite good for me as well as ds though, as I can't fix the result

you know, you CAN say 'I don't play Ivanhoe any more'.... ? What happens after the huff? Does he come out of it in the end? Ds was still quite distractible at 4 tbh.

Imaginative play is my idea of Hell. If it's unavoidable, just make sure that you film some of it to show his first partner when they come round for tea [evil cackle]

[StableButBeheaded]

That's the thing choosyfloosy I'm not good at saying no.

I would feel really mean telling him I'm not playing Ivanhoe any more, even though I loathe it. And even though I know I have to say no sometimes.
So I end up letting him have more and more of my attention, whilst inside i'm getting more & more irritated, then I get a day like today when I just don't want to do anything at all with him & I end up really snapping at him.
After the huff we get The Grumbling, accompanied by 'The Face'which is basically low-level whingeing and goes on and on till I do what he wants.

Actually, just writing about it here makes it not seem so bad. It's quite funny seeing all his little ways written down.

[melbob]

Hi I have an only who was 5 in July. He went through a similar phase and it has passed now he is at school. He is a very outgoing kid and I recognise quite a lot of my self in him in that he needs company where as DH is happy in his own company for hours. What worked was involving him in household activities or things near where we were doing something so for example sticking at the kitchen sink for water play whilst I was cooking so we could chat but he soon became absorbed in water play.

Agree with Sticktoyourgins no such thing as only behaviour same as not all middle children are difficult, older bossy or youngest babies etc

[choosyfloosy]

Well, OK, so you play Ivanhoe... your way. Lady Rowena says 'Oh Ivanhoe you are a one... I want to go and make a batch of muffins in the castle kitchen, how about you? You'll need to watch out or you'll get sugar all over your armour' etc. Also fun, i.e. infuriating for your son i shouldn't enjoy that so much, should i.

A few challenges? I get ds to run round the block and 'time' him doing it (= 3 mins 47 secs with my cup of coffee), hopping the length of the garden in under 30 secs etc. He also likes going round the room without touching the floor, 'sledging' down the stairs on his duvet etc. At least I don't actually have to participate in these.

I'm sure you do all this sort of stuff... I do know that stifled feeling, it's not great at the time. Hope you've enjoyed a break this evening.

[MavisEnderby]

Sounds like four year-old-ready-to-go-to-school-itis.

Nothing to do with being an only,ds was the same.He has a sib.He is a Nov birthday so was really ready for school.

I would also second some of choosy floosys ideas.

(Going downstirs in sleeping bag gave him loads of entertainment)

Sending him out in garden dressed as a knight to kill imaginary dragons in the bushes.

Pretend jousting

Tape Merlin off the tv,lol.

It will get better!

[Doozle]

I think the key here is that you feel mean saying no ... and he knows it! You just have to be tough and say no, he needs to play on his own for a bit while you get some jobs doen.

He will strop about it for sure, but if you persist and don't give in, he will eventually get it. Ignore him or even use consequences/naughty step (whatever it is you use) if he gets physical or shouty.

Don't feel bad, you need some time to get things done and it's good for him to play on his own for a while. He can do it ... as you say, he's fine at preschool.

[navelgazer]

You sound like you bend over backwards for him actually and you may have set up a bit of a precedent for him (but maybe not, maybe he would have been like that anyway.) Just a hunch - do you find it hard to say no to him because you are worried he is missing out because he is an only child? I have been like this in the past and the combination of playing with DD all the time (because she is an only child) and loathing it, and feeling guilty when I didn't (because she is an 'only child') would sometimes lead to me blowing my top like you did.

DD was EXACTLY as you described at 4. Now at 6 she can be reasoned with more though still quite demanding of our time. I have over the years toughed it out a bit. We all need a bit of 'bored' time to activate our creative energies. I have also weedled my way out of 'imaginary' play over time. She will now do imaginary play with her teddies, friends or DH.

[jennifersofia]

My eldest is similar. We found audio books very helpful at this stage, and also playing mild computer games like poissonrouge (google it) good.
But, to be honest, I think you need to be tough and say no. Make a few rules (4x a day you will play on your own for 15 min or whatever) and explain them to him, structure it (in morning I will listen to a tape and look at pictures in a book, in afternoon I will build a castle for daddy to see and mummy will take a picture when I am done which I can put on my wall) if you need to, and then hold firm! It will be hard but it could have a good payback that will serve him and you.
Might be good to plan it with your dh, maybe around a thurs/fri and then sat and sun so you have a bit of support, and also so he knows that he needs to do this with you, and also when it is the two of you. I would also consider making him a little chart so he can see his successes, maybe with a little prize at the end (if I manage to do it for a week then I can have an extra long play at the playground etc).
When he keeps coming to you and demanding you to play, just keep reminding him that this is 'mummy's time' and refuse to engage him more, even if you end up saying that 25 times for the first couple of sessions. It might seem mean, but really, truly, it is not.

[StableButBeheaded]

Thank you all for your helpful replies. They have really helped me to get things into perspective a bit more, and given me lots of ideas for activities!
Now I think about it more,I do think he is ready for proper school, he asked me to teach him to read this morning & is so inquisitive about everything...how things work, what words mean, etc.
navelgazer is absolutely right, I think i always have bent over backwards for him since a baby. I had very bad post-natal depression and for a while I didn't cope well with him, and I think I still have some guilt over that now...so maybe I find it hard to say 'no' because it reminds me of when I 'rejected' him in the past, and I'm trying to make up for it by always doing what he wants, even though logically I know he needs boundaries & limits.
jennifersofia, I like the idea of setting him some 'time alone' sessions each day & sticking with it. Sounds like a good starting point, I will try that.
Dh & I both had a little talk to him this morning about how mummy and daddy need to have some time to themselves each day to do things we need/want to do, and so we can't play with him all the time but that we still want to play with him some of the time. It was just a casual talk, no heavy stuff but it did not go down well & we had tears....big sad sobbing, anyone would think we'd said we were sending him to an orphanage!
But we did keep reminding him during the day 'remember what we said this morning about giving mummy time to do her things?' etc and then I'd try to distance myself for about 10 mins and not respond to him. I think it may help in the long run.

[jennifersofia]

Just pondering a bit more about it, I was thinking that it might help him to know that there was a definite beginning time and a definite ending time to when he was spending his time alone / mummy was having her time.
I would be tempted to make (or print off from internet) a large clock and put movable hands on it (using a brass tack thingy in the middle) and put the hands at the end time (eg. time alone time is 11-11:20, I would put hands at 11:20 so he could know that when the clocks hands were in the same position as 'his' clock, then that would be time to play together. Not looking to make him an early clock watcher, (though 'tis a good possibility for a bit of informal teaching - just the vocab of time telling) but I thought a visual representation of his time might help.
Perhaps it all feels a bit contrived, but it might be a good beginning point. He can help make the clock, writing in the numbers (or colouring them in) decorating with glitter, etc.).
Don't beat yourself up - you are loving him! As mothers I think it is sometimes hard to get beyond this gut emotional response to this being that was once a part of us. Not that the emotional response is bad - just that it can sometimes prevent us seeing the long view!

[HelenMeg]

Have DS now 6 who was a little bit like that too - it is hard work when they dont want you having time to yourself..

It will pass though! Having other Mums and children round always helps...
DS used to require someone to play trains with him endlessly -and I used to HATE playing with his train set -and I wanst very good at. DS realised I was no good and stopped asking me, in fat banned me from playing with them. I also used to get him to
hhelp with the cleaning. A bit of bribery never goes amiss.A couple of nursery sessions helps. The thing is - the stage will pass in time and as someone else said - school will sort it out and then you might miss him! Good luck!

[Bumblingbovine]

You could be writing about my ds. (4.9yrs)

What dh does and it is surprisingly successful is divide the day into slots. He calls it playtime/worktime and sets the timer for say 20-40 mins of play then 20-40 min of work. Dh decides on the slot length

ds and dh are at home for day or part of a day that is how they spend the time.

Ds can choose to help with the work or play on his own during work time. If dh needs to do computer stuff that ds can't help with then ds has to play on his own. Also ds is allowed to choose TV or computer time as a playtime (only once in any particular period) but if it is playtime then he can ask dh to sit with him (he doesn't much any more)

DS complained A LOT when dh first introduced it but now ds often asks "are we doing play time/work time time?" when we are at home.

I personally hate doing it it as it is so regimented but I have to admit that it does work to make ds less demanding.

[Bumblingbovine]

I forgot to say that dh uses the kitchen timer for this so when it rings ds can still sometimes protest if is really enjoying what he is playing with us but not really very much any more. Also if the playing is going really well we do sometimes set the timer for another 5 mins so that the ending isn't so abrupt.

[darlingdds2]

Hello, I have two children (one 4 in Jan and one 6. They both demand attention all the time. When it's school hols it's particularly difficult as the 6 year old is home and they both want constant attention and they both want me to do 'their' thing with them. I am now far too familiar with children's telly (I hate CBeebies). They constantly interupt me and each other aswell as my husband. I hear it gets better! Despite this they are lovely and I think they must like my company which has to be a good thing!

[gingernutlover]

hi

I havent read all of the posts as dd herself is being demanding LOL

In my opinion, the bet thing you could do is start saying no, and making sure he knows that you mean it. It seems from your posts that he has learned that you will always do what he wants, but that sometimes he may just have to moan more to get it.

My dd would be exactly like your son if we allowed it. She was 4 at the very beginning of sept, missing out on going to school by just a few days and my goodness is she ready! We get the constant demand for attention and playing games, as well as the interrupting. We have taught her that we will spend time with her but we say things like " when I have hoovered we wil ...." I have video of her at a younger age having massive tantrums over this type of thing but now she accepts it, she sometimes whinges a bit but has learned that the whinging has a negative result "I dont play with little girls who use that voice" we say.

The interrupting thing drives me roudn the bend too, and we do tell her off for it. My Mother does not ignore it, she actually encourgaes it and I can see a massive change in behaviour when dd has spent time with my mum - its not nice.

I think its imporatant for you to give him the positive attention for positive behaviour (BUT, not 24/7)

I am also a reception teacher and honestly from that point of view, the best thing you can do for him is to start saying no, and putting down boundaries. If you dont, he is going to have big problems at school in terms of friends, who may not do exactly what he wants at the time her wants! I've taught Reception for 8 years and have seen many only pampered children come through - with these problems. (I'm not saying he's pampered but I do think you are storing up problems by allowing this behaviour to continue)