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Live webchat with David Lammy MP on UK riots, Tuesday 24th, 1pm- 2pm

(61 Posts)
KatieMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 23-Jan-12 11:49:36

We're delighted to welcome David Lammy MP and author of 'Out of the Ashes, Britain after the riots' for a live webchat tomorrow at 1pm. As well as MP for Tottenham, David is chair of the all party group on fatherhood and was a minister in the previous government (including in health and education), serving under both Blair and Brown.

He's very keen to hear your views and answer any of your questions on how Britain can respond to the riots. He's also written a guest blog for the Mumsnet Bloggers Network in advance of the webchat.

And of course if you can't join us live, please do post a question in advance.

Thanks
MNHQ

SirBoobAlot Sun 29-Jan-12 09:49:08

Know this has finished but raising a single finger to a child is excessive force. Its okay as long as its not classified as abuse? What bullshit.

nongenderbias9 Thu 26-Jan-12 23:21:10

Hi

Apparently 1 in 3 children live without their Father. Why do we treat our Farther's with such disrespect? I know so many Father's who are tossed aside by society. They can be such good role models for our children, but instead they are emotionally broken beings cast out by the Family Courts into the "every other weekend contact parent" role, feeding on scraps of a relationship with their children, often strained by the negative demonisations of an angry controlling X

KatieMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 24-Jan-12 18:36:40

Hi there

David's just asked that we can let you know that all the proceeds from his book are going to charity.

Also, thought you might like to see the BBC news coverage

KatieMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 24-Jan-12 14:05:21

Thanks David - and thanks to everyone who asked a question.

DavidLammyMP Tue 24-Jan-12 14:04:49

Thank you very much for engaging in the issues and for a range of robust but genuinely concerned questions.

DavidLammyMP Tue 24-Jan-12 14:03:27

LindsayWagner

Oh (sorry, cheeky) can you explain why you aren't satisfied that the Pupil Premium will ensure fair access to free schools?

Because its the tip of the iceberg when the average pupil in the London borough of Haringey continues to be funded £1500 per pupil less than neighbouring Islington, Hackney and Camden with more acute deprivation. These are inner London schools with inner London problems getting outer London funding.

DavidLammyMP Tue 24-Jan-12 13:59:24

lockitt

There's a lot of concern on the talkboards this week with regards to the 26k benefits cap. How do you think this will affect families in Tottenham and other similar constituents? Do you think this could lead to further distrust of the current government and even more danger of disturbances in the future?

The cap will affect families in Tottenham mainly because it will drive overcrowding as families flee inner London in their thousands arriving in cheaper neighbourhoods like Tottenham. I predict serious social upheaval in the years ahead as a consequence.

fair enough, thanks for responding.

DavidLammyMP Tue 24-Jan-12 13:56:30

FannyFifer

No comment on why you think it is ok to use the term British and UK riots when it affected only England? Can you not see how false and misleading never mind offensive that is to the other countries in the UK?

Point taken, but the issues I explore in my book i.e. hyper individualised culture, workless poor are most definitely not just unique to riot hit areas.

DavidLammyMP Tue 24-Jan-12 13:54:48

PlentyOfPubeGardens

I know we're not supposed to post 'what about me' posts but there's only 10 mins left and it's hardly busy in here ... I posted this back on page 1 and was wondering whether you had any comment:

I'd like to know why Woolwich was systematically ignored by the media during, and in the immediate aftermath of the riots even though we were really quite badly hit (we've lost buildings). I understand that there is a danger of exacerbating situations with too much media attention but it would have been good to have a little bit more than Twitter to inform us that our town centre was in flames.

It wasn't until a good couple of weeks after the riots that Woolwich incidents began to be added to the maps and lists of incidents in the media.

I'm not the best person to explain why the media throw a spotlight on some places and some issues and ignore others. It perplexes me as well.

FannyFifer Tue 24-Jan-12 13:54:00

No comment on why you think it is ok to use the term British and UK riots when it affected only England? Can you not see how false and misleading never mind offensive that is to the other countries in the UK?

DavidLammyMP Tue 24-Jan-12 13:53:15

kittykitty

"we should return to the law as it existed for 150 years before it was changed in 2004"

So do you mean we should return to a time when it was still OK to smack a child in such a way that it left a mark on a child - wasn't that the compromise that was reached then? Or are you saying that the state should - if you'll forgive the pun - butt out of parents' business when it comes to disciplining their children?

The legislation currently talks about "a reddening of the skin" not completely sure how this applies to my own children! Previously the courts determined whether parents had used "reasonable chastisement" or "excessive force". Unfortunately, some parents do abuse their children but we should be careful not to stigmatise the majority. There's a big difference between abuse and parenting.

I know we're not supposed to post 'what about me' posts but there's only 10 mins left and it's hardly busy in here ... I posted this back on page 1 and was wondering whether you had any comment:

I'd like to know why Woolwich was systematically ignored by the media during, and in the immediate aftermath of the riots even though we were really quite badly hit (we've lost buildings). I understand that there is a danger of exacerbating situations with too much media attention but it would have been good to have a little bit more than Twitter to inform us that our town centre was in flames.

It wasn't until a good couple of weeks after the riots that Woolwich incidents began to be added to the maps and lists of incidents in the media.

DavidLammyMP Tue 24-Jan-12 13:48:55

SparklyRedShoes

Hello, I would like to know whether you perceive the large numbers of young people involved in the riots as a damning failure of the education system to prepare young people for adult life. A life in which they are able to both appreciate the difference between right and wrong and develop real skills that enable them also to contribute to society. I am concerned about the lack of good apprenticeships for young people wherein they are not exploited and also relevant good quality work experience. If you live in a home where mum and dad can help support you, you can afford to do long term work experience for nothing, but what if you cannot afford it? (I'm in a rush so I hope you get what I'm trying to say)

There are some issues in some schools of course, but raising successful children to maturity cannot be laid solely at the door of hard pressed teachers. Parents, neighbours, community at large is the focus of my book and where I think our country has been placing too little attention. I agree with you entirely on apprenticeship and skills which had virtually disappeared in the late 90's in this country.

kittykitty Tue 24-Jan-12 13:46:03

"we should return to the law as it existed for 150 years before it was changed in 2004"

So do you mean we should return to a time when it was still OK to smack a child in such a way that it left a mark on a child - wasn't that the compromise that was reached then? Or are you saying that the state should - if you'll forgive the pun - butt out of parents' business when it comes to disciplining their children?

DavidLammyMP Tue 24-Jan-12 13:45:17

MrsMicawber

Mr Lammy,

How do you feel about the draconian sentences handed down to rioters? Do you not think that community sentances would have been a better idea? Do you agree with the amount of discretion the judiciary have, and do you think that sentencing guidelines should be clearer, ie, life should mean life?

Yes, I do believe community sentences are far more effective in these cases. Why give someone the anonymity of being behind bars 20 hours a day in Feltham YOI when they could be repairing the shop they trashed the night before? It would be a way of rebuilding trust in a criminal justice system that many do not feel is responsive to victims.

DavidLammyMP Tue 24-Jan-12 13:44:07

FannyFifer

Quite a lot of the people arrested after the English riots had jobs though.

Thats true, but most didn't. And for those that did there are big issues about what is a "good job" and even bigger issues about our over individualistic, materialist culture that values rights over responsibilities.

SparklyRedShoes Tue 24-Jan-12 13:41:14

Hello, I would like to know whether you perceive the large numbers of young people involved in the riots as a damning failure of the education system to prepare young people for adult life. A life in which they are able to both appreciate the difference between right and wrong and develop real skills that enable them also to contribute to society. I am concerned about the lack of good apprenticeships for young people wherein they are not exploited and also relevant good quality work experience. If you live in a home where mum and dad can help support you, you can afford to do long term work experience for nothing, but what if you cannot afford it? (I'm in a rush so I hope you get what I'm trying to say)

DavidLammyMP Tue 24-Jan-12 13:39:59

YouCanDoTheCube

Hello,

At the risk of making you sigh with irritation (sorry!) - can I ask what you made of the Diane Abbott/Twitter/'white people' row?

Do you feel that MPs from minority ethnic communities have to be more careful about what they say than MPs from majority communities?

There is a tendency in Britain at the moment to want to label everybody a "racist" (Alan Hanson, Dianne Abbott) This is dangerous it crowds out the ability for people to genuinely say sorry when they make a mistake or slip up and it takes our eye of the ball of real racism. The racism that killed Stephen Lawrence, that affects people in the work place, or at a job interview.

Good point FannyFifer, I too am sick to the back teeth of hearing of Britain's riots. The Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish don't want to be tarred with that brush thanks very much. Any comment on that Mr Lammy?

DavidLammyMP Tue 24-Jan-12 13:38:39

clopper

Do you think that rolling 24 hour news and interviewing those participating in the riots contributed to the whole thing escalating? I know that events must be reported and not hidden, but the constant attention (along with the very vocal condemnation of police tactics) seemed to make it all more dangerous for the public and possibly exciting for some of the participants. Lots of film clips were shown over and over again. Should this sort of news be restricted somehow?

24 hour news is a reality and unfortunately, one result of people having information literally at the tip of their fingers is that they might have sinister intentions. We can’t hope the restrict the editorial decisions of the news channels because that will be seen as draconian but we can expect them to exercise a sense of responsibility to the communities that are involved.

Turning interviews with rioters into “exclusives” only serves to glamourise those who participated. Allowing them to pollute our news channels with unchallenged boasts and bravado about what they got up to the night before is irresponsible. In Tottenham, yes unfortunately 600 or so people were out on the streets causing mayhem, but were 26,000 young people who stayed at home, and we never heard their voices. It felt like everyone was being tarred with the same brush. I also can’t stand the business

FannyFifer Tue 24-Jan-12 13:38:22

Quite a lot of the people arrested after the English riots had jobs though.

DavidLammyMP Tue 24-Jan-12 13:36:57

Crumblemum

I've got a question on the riots. I live in zone 3 London. Nice area, with some issues, but have always felt very safe, kids in local schools and I'm happy etc. There was some minor rioting and window breaking in our neighbourhood, and I felt very angry and protective. I wanted someone to be doing something while the rioting was taking place (not just the clean up afterwards).

I know that sounds akin to vigilantism, which obviously is not a great idea, but do you think part of the problem is that although we might all be active in our communities we're not formally involved in community groups eg church, community centres etc?

I can't really see people going back to organised community ways, so whats the answer - how do we have effective networks that don't require a full time commitment?

interesting question. This is one of the key themes of my book: we have a hyper individualism tendency that is posing a serious risk to our society.

As I say in my book, we can’t simply rely on the Police to stop the rioters. The rioters should have stopped themselves. Because they should have felt shame if they were caught trashing their local high street or because they felt a sense of responsibility to their neighbours who had businesses there. The fact is, we have become so individualistic that people can live in the same street and disappear into anonymity. That’s why people feel they can get away with it.

So yes, where more interwoven and established communities exist - in Yorkshire and the North East for instance – despite even acuter deprivation, there was no rioting.

There are still community groups and people volunteering in all sorts of ways but there are real issues with ‘time’ in a country where people are working longer hours and I have been a long standing advocate for a national civic services for our young people.

DavidLammyMP Tue 24-Jan-12 13:34:11

MrsStringerBell

Hi David - here's my question: if you could do one thing to stop the riots ever happening again, what would it be?

"WORK" its not about a feral underclass, it is about a workless poor and the repercussions of a society that says bank are to big to fail but whole communities are allowed to sink without a trace.

FannyFifer Tue 24-Jan-12 13:33:36

By Britain and UK you mean ENGLAND as that's where the riots were. hmm

Good god, and people wonder why people in the other countries of the UK get pissed off.
Misleading book title and chat title. biscuit

Roll on 2014 SAOR ALBA!

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