no car seat out seat belt, wwyd?

[IneedAgoldenNickname]

Hi, I have 2 sons with my ex, aged 8 and 6. He can't afford to tax his car ATM, so has been using his gfs, which had booster seats on for her DC. Last weekend however, he turned up in his work van. I asked about car seats (although ds2 is 6, he is tiny so I don't like him not being in a car seat even though I have been told it's ok for short journeys)

Well today I found out that not only did he not bring car seats, but there is no seat belt in the middle seat which is where he put ds2. I'm not happy about this at all, even though I know it's not illegal. Especially as he said he thought he'd bring that car as hr knew they wanted to go in it, not because he had to iyswim.

Wwyd? Would you say anything to him? Or not allow him to take them in the van again?

[IneedAgoldenNickname]

Title should say or seat belt, not out!

[Flojobunny]

Not illegal? Really? Wow.
I would be absolutely fuming, I won't even let my ex take DS 7 yo without a high back booster seat.
Ok for short journeys? That's crazy.

[Flojobunny]

Does your ex have any idea how many children are killed in crashes every year? Doesn't bear thinking about. Not a safety issue I'd be willing to compromise on and I'm generally laid back.

[IneedAgoldenNickname]

The cat seat man in mothercare said their is a loophole in the law, that says car seats are not required for short, occasional, or unexpected journeys add it cannot be reasonably expected that everyone has them. Having said that when Ds1 had to be transferred from one hospital to another last year they refused to take him in a car as we didn't have a car seat, do we had to wait 4 hours for an ambulance instead!
And I remember reading that if a cat doesn't have seatbelts it's perfectly legal to travel in it.

Thanks for the responses though, I was fuming when I found out and will be telling him they are not allowed in the van again.

[Iggly]

You can't put a child in a front seat without seatbelts here

[Iggly]

Also the mothercare man is talking bollocks about short journeys.

[IneedAgoldenNickname]

Thanks iggly, thinking about it again, I did read it was allowed in rear seats. I shall tell him it's illegal.

[ilovepowerhoop]

from Car Seat law website:

The law requires children (and adults) travelling in the front of all vehicles, including vans, buses, coaches, minibuses and goods vehicles to use an appropriate child restraint or adult seat belts.

Also:
Children aged 3 and above, until they reach EITHER their 12th birthday OR 135cm in height

In the Front Seat

The child MUST use the correct child restraint.

In the Rear Seat

The child MUST use the correct restraint, where seat belts are fitted.

There are three exceptions where there is not a child seat available. In each case the child MUST use the adult belt instead. They are -

1. in a licensed taxi or private hire vehicle;
   
   
2. if the child is travelling on a short distance for reason of unexpected necessity;
   
   
3. if there are two occupied child restraints in the rear which prevent the fitment of a third.
   
   In addition, a child 3 and over may travel unrestrained in the rear seat of a vehicle if seat belts are not available.
   
   It is the driver's legal responsibility to ensure that the child is correctly restrained.

[ilovepowerhoop]

www.childcarseats.org.uk/law/index.htm - info from here.

It is illegal to travel in the front without child restraint/seatbelt
Only allowed to travel unrestrained in the back in exceptional circumstances/in a taxi/if no room for 3 seats.

[IneedAgoldenNickname]

Thanks for the links, I will show them to him if he argues with me.

[Lueji]

A car seat may not be required, but at least a seat belt, fgs.