Mumsnet Talk

Hello

We are currently in Belgium having moved from the UK a couple of yrs ago. My DH has been wanting a move within the company for a while and a few things have been in the tentative stage but nothing definite.

They have just asked him if he would put his name forward for a job in Moscow. I am really reluctant to take a family there - if we did not have children I might for the experience but I am not sure how safe Russia is for foreigners and I feel it would not be a good place to go - but my knowledge is limited so anyone who can give me advice - I would very much appreciate it. My DH has a couple of days to say whether he wants his name to go forward.

Many thanks

Hi

I'm in mOscow. It's perfectly safe for foreigners if and, this is a big if, - you've got white skin. I know this is a horrible thing to type, but it's true

It can be a great place for kids but this is largely if you are Russian speaking so can access things. There are some good (English/French) speaking nurseries but they are fairly expensive link

The infrastructure isn't great for things like buggies/ shopping and it gets bloody cold in the winter!

I really love it here. There is a thriving expat scene and if you learn some Russian it's fairly easy to make friends but do your research as a lot of expat families are thoroughly miserable here because it's just so big and different...

Let me know if i can help if you have any specific questions anb I'll endeavour to help

You may be better off asking the questions here

I spent 2 months not so long ago as a trailing spouse in Moscow, right in the centre between the 2 streets called New and Old Arbat. Went with 2,5,9 and 11 year olds.

Moscow is HUGE, can take an hour in GOOD traffic just to make it to the outskirts. All the large supermarkets are on the outskirts, without a car I made do with the smaller supermarkets which were mega expensive. If you get a car and are happy to drive with mad Musocvites, then you'll be just fine going out to the huge Auchan supermarkets, you can get there by public transport but doubt you would want to go with kids AND carry the shopping back.

Most expat families send their children to the English international schools, there is a growing choice, if included in any package, be aware that your children could spend alot of time travelling to and from their school.

Many expat families live in gated communities, never visited one, but some are right next to the international schools.

I felt quite safe in Moscow with the children, as safe as I would in London. There are some scary looking Muscovites out there, everyone seems to have blackened windows, plenty of drunks too, but really none of it phased me at all.

Travelling with a young child on public transport is not always easy, steps with a puschair, only the "ethnic" people such as Uzbeks, would help me up and down steps. But funny once in the metro, the kids are ALWAYS given seats by strangers unless they are elderly, treated their like little princes.

1 child families are the norm, 1 child families still not usual, our 4 children were constantly stared at and many times people asked me if they were all mine. Quite nice to have the attention.

We travelled by metro and bus everywhere, it is quite cheap.

Plenty of parks to take the kids too. Beaches on lakes and river west of Moscow for the hot Summer months.

Found plenty of sites and museums to visit, including the Kremlin. Kids went to several football matches. Loved Ismaylova market and the more local markets in that area. Another good market at Sportivnaya sports stadiums. A must is the Car theatre, also at least 2 circus, the Old and New State circuses, went twice to the New one. Also loads of ballets you can go to, the girls loved that.

It took less than a week to master reading Cyrillic, a must if you want to live outside the expat bubble.

Loved the food, Uzbek and Georgian restaurants in Moscow city centre but also on market stalls, "Yelki Palki" Russian fast food chain. But our favourite eatery was Starlight diner, the best one on the Garden Ring.

Well that's all I can think of right now. I'd be happy to go to Moscow for a few years, our children would go to the lycee francais. I wouldn't like one of the gated communities, but you might prefer. I defeinitely would NOT want to live the rest of my life there, but for a few years, I could live there and make the most of it.

Ooh I used to walk past that nursery school every day, the one in the link!!!

Natation is right- gated communities such as Rosinka (outside cenrte)to be avoided at all costs.

What kind of job does your husband do?- as will depend on the package he gets- if you have a driver or can negotiate a driver life will be much easier. Although there is a lot that is cheap here- such as public transport, excellent culture/arts scene, rents are v exp and housing can be much poorer standard than in other places. It is by no means a cheap place to live

Food is great and if you have good local market all organic adn straigt up from central asia or the caucasas.

Careful on expat.ru there is an awful lot of russky bashing on that site, although it will be helpful

Just remembered that the British Embassy playgroup was, when we were there, open to non diplomatic children too, depending upon demand. The playgroup rooms are well equiped, very pleasant, an outdoor and contained playground looking directly over the river. They may still have their mums and tots group once a week too.

There are listings for pre-schools and schools on :
expat.ru/placeschild.php?sect=23

Thank you so much for all your help - my husband is impressed I have managed to find out so much so quickly. I am asking my husband to get more info before he decides whether to put himself forward.

I look yesterday at a couple of websites and found that they do not deliver to Russia - problems with customs apparently. I raise this because I am Coeliac and need gluten free food - very easy to get in UK and here in Belgium I can obtain it (not the range of the UK but OK). I wonder what I would do somewhere like moscow?

Hi there with regard to getting stuff delivered, I'm also outside the EU (former Soviet country) and hardly any websites will deliver. We've discovered a kind of courier service which runs from the UK. You need a willing helper in the UK who will take it to the collection point (industrial estate behind a tube station kind of thing!) and we collect at the appointed time here. I would imagine there is something similar for Moscow but probably used more by Russian expats sending stuff/money home (certainly the case here). Not sure how you could find out as presumably Russian expat forums are normally in Russian but it's worth looking into - it's revolusionised my life!

I also lived in Moscow for a couple of years - albeit pre-DD - and would second what's been said above. Moscow is very expensive for most things and I'd say you'd need a car and driver to make life bearable. You will find that it's much cheaper to get help in the house - not like in Asia, but the people I knew with kids back then (5 years ago) all had some kind of nanny/helper.

Whilst life can be tough and the long winters depressing, there's a lot positive too and I miss certain things. Walking about in summer is easy, culture is great and cheap compared to London/UK, there are a lot of lovely parks and gardens for little ones to explore.

Housing is pricey, but if you can get it covered, flats in central Moscow can be lovely and spacious. Compounds are fine for summer, but can feel pretty isolating in winter.

I found food shopping ok, but again was only shopping for 2 adults at the time. I remember fruit and veg were not great in winter.

The expat scene is supportive there, probably as for most it's considered a hardship posting.

Not always so easy to get to know Russians, as they can be quite cold and distant BUT once you've made friends, they are the most hospitable and kind people in the world.
We've talked about whether we'd go back (now with 1y.o DD) and think we would with the right money/support.

Best of luck in deciding what to do!

Hello

I have found out a little more and wonder if you could advise further.

The offices are in Khimki so just north of the city - would it be possible to live in places like Patriarch Ponds or Frunsenkaya? Also would my husband be safe driving himself to work - I have seen some video footage of the worst driving I have ever seen!

Never driven on a Moscow road but experienced their driving. Khimki I would imagine is a minimum 1 hour drive from the centre.

I would look into the train journey to Khimki or metro to Rechnoy Vokzal and then perhaps a bus further north.

But those 2 districts are right in the centre, the international schools are mainly a bit further out. If your children are school age, I'd try and find somewhere to live close to school or work or in between, rather than just choosing an area because of its reputation for expats living there. It depends of course on whether your accommodation is going to be paid for and / or schooling.

thank you - yes I have mentioned those areas because I have found them on the internet. Someone my husband knows was to live in Rosinka and would drive to work but I do not want a gated community but other than that I do not know of anywhere that would be nice and would be an ok journey to work. accomodation would be paid for. I am asking about areas because my husband may go for a visit soon and i want him to look in the right places.

Khimki is way out of town (I think even considereda town in it's own right even thoughit's part of the sprawl) connected to the centre by Lenigradski Shosse- iwhich is notorious for exceptionally bad traffic and it could talk literally 1 hour to 5 hours depending on the moscow traffic (the thing that will make me leave!)

The metro does not go there so you would still be stuck in traffic on a Marshrutka. Where do his colleagues live?

Patriach's ponds is lovely- this is sort of whre I am, and there are nice parks for the kids and generally excellent transport links to major parts of the city.

Rosinka is outside the city limits completely unreachable by transport so a car or a driver is s must, oryou will be stuck in a Russian version of an American suburb, and not really be in Moscow at all!

So in all- Patraichs ponds is great. get dh to negotiate a driver and prepare him to have the commute from hell.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fLW3OiH8OQ Moscow roads ]

Hello
thank you Ulyanka. Nothing is definite yet but I am feeling a little down about the whole prospect. The driving and traffic generally sounds awful - both the amount of traffic and the bad driving I have heard about.

Is there anywhere you could think of that is nice for us to live that would not be a terrible journey to work?

I have looked and there appears to be public transport because they talk about shuttle buses to the business park.

thank you again - any more information would help a lot!

I spent a while in Moscow teaching English. I loved it and I would love to go back one day. It was a crazy place to live!

The traffic and the driving were terrible (a great introduction to Moscow was the taxi driver who picked me up at the airport driving past a traffic jam on teh wrong side of the road with cars racing towards us. He shrugged and said taxi drivers were allowed to drive onthe wrong side of the road!) but the public transport is very good.

I lived out at Planornaya (top end of the purple metro line if you have a map) which was great. It is a "normal" area with normal Russian families. All the areas of blocks of flats like that have plenty of little play parks between buildings. It also has a great market right next to the metro where you could buy all your food without needing to go near a supermarket but there was also a supermarket a few mins walk and a shuttle bus to the big shopping complex with Ikea and anything else you would find in a shopping mall here. Added to all of that it was just 30 mins direct to the city centre onthe metro Actually, looking at a map, not that far from Khimki here

I found the expat scene could get very annoying, a lot of bravado, blokes going on about Russian women, refusal to learn cyrilic but I expect that as with most places you will meet like minded people as you seek out playgroups etc. Some of my friends volunteered at English speaking groups and really enjoyed it.

I have not sold it well I think. Moscow is a fantastic, dynamic, exciting city. It's arts scene is vibrant 9if a bit bonkers at times), kids are doted upon, and you will have the opportunity to see a fascinating culture at a very important time in its history.

However, the expat community is riddled with moaners who constantly expect it to be like the west, so prepare for it to be totally different. i don't know if you are used to big city life but moscow is dirty, noisy and has appalling traffic problems. Many companies still view it as a hardship posting as you need to be tough and resilient (like most Moscovites) in order to get the most out of it.

Every expat i know regardless of how how much they like it here, and some do very much,hates the traffic, but its a part of life out there.

If you want to be part of a community, able to meet other Mums for coffee, go out and see things on the weekends, live centrally. living out is fine, but will be harder to feel part ofthings if you have children and don't speak Russian. I guess your husband's company will have many an employee who has to brave the traffic, but rega rdless of where you live he will have to brave th MKAD 9ring road)

This is a mixed nationality group (some Russian, some from allover) who can maybe help give a flavour of things. here

hi Ulyanka
are you still in Moscow? We are moving there in August from France (I'm English, hubby French) and I have a few questions, such as what to bring over. Clothes for the winter or shall we wait until we are there?
We're hoping to live right next to the ecole francaise, which is also where hubby works, so cutting out all that travelling!

And boododdles did you go??

No we didn't - ended up in Germany and I really like it! I am glad that DH did not get the job - it is good to come second sometimes!