Shit - it's really kicking off in Egypt - again

(27 Posts)
meditrina Wed 03-Jul-13 19:28:00

Here's the (almost identically named) thread from the demonstrations that led to the deposit. Of Mubarak

And an Army statement is expected shortly with the situation looking tense. Huge demonstrations, both pro and anti Morsi.

Is is a hiccup in a road to democracy - or is it a military coup?

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Wed 03-Jul-13 19:32:33

You tend to find that when there's a popular revolution, things always get a lot worse before they get better. The various factions unite against the common oppressor but then once the oppressor gets deposed, the factions all realise they hate one another. They all fight gor ages before everyone grts fed up and realises thst they might have to compromise. I'm not optimistic short term.

meditrina Wed 03-Jul-13 19:39:44

Here's the BBc page with live updates

I found it interesting to look back at what people were posting in January 2011, and the sense of optimism of what democracy would bring to Egypt.

meditrina Wed 03-Jul-13 20:08:30

It's sounding more and more like a coup - rumours of Morsi deposition becoming better sourced and tanks close to the Presidential palace.

Perhaps the overthrow of Mubarak was actually coup part 1 (cold not have been achieved without military) and this then rounds it off. The military remain in control, and only those of whom they approve may rule; even those who win elections require such backing.

AnyaKnowIt Wed 03-Jul-13 20:20:45

Sounds like Morsi has gone now

MasterOfTheYoniverse Thu 04-Jul-13 02:24:23

Bardei was playing the american awaiting game as should be, always meant to be the pawn. And rightfully so.
Richman, I would really like to meet up at some point!

meditrina Thu 04-Jul-13 06:03:57

The snag is, surely, that Morsi was democratically elected.

What there is now is conditional democracy. Or perhaps it was always like that? At time of the overthrow of Mubarak, it was also a military coup.

Like Russia, democracy is only permitted within strict limits?

Timetoask Thu 04-Jul-13 06:09:06

All those poor female protestors raped. Horrible.

crescentmoon Thu 04-Jul-13 07:38:45

i think this will really dent the morale of the syrian rebels as well. they looked at the 3 north african revolutions as what could be possible against Assad.

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 04-Jul-13 11:29:40

Looks like a military coup to me at the moment. If there's a new election organised, maybe the army will have played a constructive part but not otherwise. What the Egyptians are experiencing is the downside of all democratic societies i.e. the losers have to live with the outcome until there is another election. The way things are now they've got the worst of all worlds i.e. the tyranny of the minority backed by the military.. not democracy at all.

niceguy2 Thu 04-Jul-13 12:53:38

The Egyptian's have a major problem. Morsi was democratically elected. That much is commonly accepted. That said he did grant himself vast new powers which wasn't part of the deal.

But more urgently than that, Egypt needs stability. One of the reasons their economy is a mess is simply because companies like mine are refusing to invest anymore and others are pulling out. We lost two major deals following the first revolution which put us from profit to loss. Winning new deals is nigh on impossible. Despite the low costs, who in their right minds would stand up at a board meeting of directors and say "Hey...i have a great idea. Let's invest £100m in Egypt!"?

I've been many times through work and i've been very impressed with the Egyptian's work ethics and educational standards of their graduates.

But until they can stabilise their country their economy is going to keep plunging. I fear the people will keep protesting for a magic wand solution. I bet inside of six months there'll be protests against the army appointed government. After elections there'll be more against the new leader. And so on.

Given that the coup is likely to lead to foreign governments suspending aid programmes as well, I can see that the economic position isn't going to improve. Those people who were protesting at Morsi's failure to improve the economy are going to be feeling equally let down by the new regime before long.

cocolepew Thu 04-Jul-13 15:18:59

Absolutely horrific what is happening to the female protestors.

bkgirl Thu 04-Jul-13 15:48:20

I don't get why the female protestors are being attacked sexually. Do these people not have wives, sisters, daughters etc? What way must they be treated? I thought the protestors were more liberal and no hardline islamic. I don't get it. Hopefully women will stay clear - including journalists. The people responsible are un-islamic.

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 04-Jul-13 15:55:14

Sexual violence is just another form of violence. The women these men attack are not - in their eyes - the same as their wives, daughters etc. They are non-people, de-humanised, 'the enemy', 'other' and not deserving of any mercy. Has nothing to do with religion & everything to do with power and aggression.

AuntieStella Thu 04-Jul-13 22:15:03

Interesting comment on the news: the choreography of the take over by the military was so slick that it must have been months in the planning. So was Morsi's card marked right from his election?

After the decades of suppression of MB by the military, was their democratic victory just too much to stomach?

What are the limits of democracy? Or at least fair representation - the MB won after all.

AuntieStella Fri 05-Jul-13 15:05:44

An update from this afternoon's news: there has been gunfire at a pro-Morsi demonstration, with casualties (Sky saying three or four dead plus unspecified number injured).

BBC article here.

elisaemerson73 Sat 06-Jul-13 16:00:05

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

QueenofWhispers Sun 07-Jul-13 13:04:04

there goes my holiday. sad

thenightsky Sun 07-Jul-13 13:09:25

When is your hol? I'm meant to be in Hurghada in Sept. There's nowt on thomson website about being cancelled.

RoseFlowerFairy Sun 07-Jul-13 13:10:44

QueenofWhispers, there go many people's holidays sad, along with the lives of so many Egyptians sad.

QueenofWhispers Sun 07-Jul-13 19:17:20

I do feel horrible about the people dying in Egypt---and all that raping+virginity checks---absolutely vile.

I was going to do a last minute trip to sharm. it's the only place I can afford.

NicholasTeakozy Mon 08-Jul-13 09:40:36

Dozens killed overnight. Horrible situation. sad

AuntieStella Mon 08-Jul-13 13:04:48

At least 42 dead, according to this BBC article and chain of events unclear: MB saying it was an attack by military on them as they began morning prayer. There's definitely footage of soldiers firing at crowd. Unverified of crowd shooting at soldiers.

It is looking considerably more tense and volatile. Even usually quite measured commentators are beginning to use more ominous language.

meditrina Wed 14-Aug-13 22:05:11

[[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23705532 Scores dead. Curfews. Military on the streets, suppressing those who support the deposed president (who had been democratically elected in adequately free/fair elections).

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