Mumsnet Talk

Auntmaud you are discussing women who were vulnerable and by the sound sounds of things very controlled by an abusive man, and at least one innocent party has lost children.....a little humanity please and less of the "thick as pig shit" comments.[h,m]

Oh and life on benefits is not THAT great....would YOU have swapped lives with them? Or perhaps me....I am on benefits too....it isn't generous....it is enough to live on and that's all.

It was the oddest set-up, and how confusing for the children. I wonder if SS were involved with the "family". Neither woman seems particularly bright. The mistress already had a child when she moved in at 17. I bet she had a terribly sad childhood. Just awful all round, really.

In the Mail this morning, there's a picture of Philpott with his wife and mistress (Lisa Wills). Her face has been blanked out "for legal reasons". That interested me - "legal reasons" usually means that the person is underage, but clearly not in this case. So I assume she must be involved in another legal case, or perhaps she is under police protection. Not sure if I'm allowed to speculate!

I agree that the evidence presented so far has been very disturbing. I wonder what the defence case will be?

I have enough experience of working with vulnerable women to understand these women were abused. Therefore to refer to them as "scum" is dreadful....at least one of the women is not guilty as she had managed to get away from him.
The "thick as pig shit" comments are plain nasty, I worked with a woman like these two at one time...she had seven children with a variety of "fathers" and lived on benefits. Her childhood file at social services was horrendous .....very abusive childhood which made her vulnerable to the kind of men who abuse women. So yes I object to the comments you made (and have reported them) because being that foul about people is disgusting.
I have my own opinion about him and from what I have heard he is an abusive and controlling man. The women involved make their own choices freely and will have to pay the price for that. But to just dismiss them as "thick" is fairly ignorant and smacks of the type of person who judges all too easily without knowing any of the facts or background.

By the way I am not handwringing over the adults who may be responsible for the deaths of six innocent children here. But be honest Auntmaud, if these children had not died then in 10 or 20 years time you would have been dismissing them as "thick as pig shit" too. How in earth could children in that situation have much chance of escaping a life of poverty?

If these parents are guilty (and the trial is still ongoing so no judgements should be taking place) then I hope they are locked up for a long long time.

Cross posted with you there......I guessed you'd call me a "hand wringing apologist". No I don't care about the adults IF (as I suspect) they are guilty. Just saying we should not be judgemental about their intelligence, lives or anything else when we do t know the facts. Apart from to wonder why the children were not removed a long time ago.

daily fail link

It says he cried when the 999 call was played. I wonder if he cried in the same way he did when appealing for info where both parent kept wiping tearless eyes. I remember that making myself and others suspicious at the time.

They all seem very odd.

I am with JakeBullet. It doesn't help prevent people like this to vilify them with simplistic labels. Need to understand how cute little innocent babies grow up to be selfish & foolish people, & do such collosally stupid things.

God can Condemn them. I'd rather understand how and why.

Can we please distinguish between the adults who are accused of multiple child homicide and the adult who made some dreadful life choices but then did her best to run away from this appalling situation with her children - the police and the CPS clearly believe her to be entirely innocent. Do not lump them all in together as "the adults".

But actually, best to hold our tongues for a few days until we have a judgement from the jury. A little bit of patience won't kill anyone.

Thank you verydullnamechange, you have said well what I said badly. Vilifying people when they have not yet been convicted doesn't help....far better to ask why this happened and could it have been prevented.

There WILL be a Serious Case Review with regard to the children who died which might answer some of the questions as it will look carefully into the lives of the adults and their backgrounds. Am betting they will find a massive history of abuse in childhood for some if not all of them. This does not mean all abused children grow into dysfunctional adults but it does mean that chaotic families like this need much more support to stop history repeating itself or worse. This support is not necessarily financial as in benefits but in real practical family support.

Poor children...they didn't deserve this.

Sadly though I'm not sure we will find out why. If they are guilty I don't think they will be telling the truth as they haven't pleaded guilty. It's a sad case and the circumstances are very unusual, but I'm not sure how much can be learnt from it other than handling of external agencies.

Jake - Lisa Wills testified today that Maighread Philpott confided in her that she'd been sexually abused as a child.

Yes just read that and tbh I wasn't surprised.....and Lisa Willis was only 17 when she moved in which makes me wonder about her background too.

I was just released from jury service in that crown court last Thursday. I was so dreading being selected for it.
They were telling jurors who would suffer serious financial/family problems from sitting on a six week trial to speak up to see if they could be excused from that jury pool. (Jury service commitment is usually only 2 weeks) We guessed it was this case they were preparing for.

She was orphaned by 12 and then lived with an older cousin who introduced her to Philpott.

I pity the jurors who have to listen to it all tbh , an awful case.

Carole Malone's remarks look positively measured from this perspective....

I was thinking earlier that I had posted how upset I was at that press conference - I have posted lots on that thread cogito.

I genuinely thought that those two were remorseful and heartbroken. Bit bloody embarrassed reading that back. What a terrible judge of character I am. But I just couldn't fathom that there was anything sinister in it - thought is was just a horrible accident.

Someone on here said a while ago that if the police suspect involvement from a family member they ask them to do a press conference/public appeal so that they can get behavioral expects in to examine their reactions etc. don't know how true it is

The mother who got away from Philpott with her kids was orphaned at 12 and lived with a cousin who introduced her to him? Poor girl. No wonder she was easy prey for an abusive, controlling, dangerous man. Thank heavens she managed to get out with her kids - how terrible that the others suffered so dreadfully.

In fact the more I read about their lives, the sadder it becomes.
Lots of abuse allegations now surfacing against him.

The abuse allagations could be a defences ploy.

An adult knows no good will come from setting your home on fire with sleeping children in it!

Absolutely. ...it's horrific. I do suspect that abuse will play a part somewhere but to recklessly start a fire kbowing there are children in the house is indefensible really. No matter that you might not have intended for them to die