can of worms but... should pedestrians take some responsibility for their safety on the roads?(32 Posts)
Just watching a discussion on one of our favourite daytime tv shows. A young girl was hit on a dark country lane by a responsible driver, driving safely under the speed limit. The insurers are arguing she should have made herself more visible (torch/high-vis jacket).
What do we think. In this day and age do we need a change in the law making pedestrians more responsible?
It is disgusting that Churchill are trying to get out if paying that girl's compensation.
A person walking on a grass verge should not be expected to protect themselves from being hit by speeding hunks if metal.
Of course pedestrians should take responsibility for their safety on the road. On a personal level.
But there should be no legal requirement for them to do so and no liability should be attached to any failure to do so.
I read this one in the DM yesterday.
True, the girl was listening to her ipod - but she was walking on the verge
the driver was doing 50 - on an unlit winding country lane - & swerved onto the verge when he saw an oncoming car
he might have been legally within the limit but he was driving too fast
Churchill are being very shifty about paying up
I think pedestrians should take more responsibility. We teach are children to be very careful near roads, yet many people grow up with a "cars aren't allowed to run me over, so I'll just walk here" attitude.
A woman was run over and killed in a road where I used to live.
She was crossed the road without checking sufficiently for traffic.
The driver was speeding, long straight road at 6.30 am. (Most drivers do go over 30mph on this road IME)
The driver was given a two year prison sentence.
I can't help thinking if the woman had looked both ways, she wouldn't have been run over. I know lots of people who know the place where it happened think two years was a harsh sentence.
But then you obviously can't be allowed to just go around running people over.
All a pedestrian can do is make sure they're visible and vigilant.
As someone who is more often a pedestrian than a passenger (I don't drive) I would appreciate it if drivers indicated, because I'm not a bloody mind reader, drove at a sensible speed along our village roads, put their mobile phones away for the 30 seconds it takes them to drive from their home to the offy, didn't park their cars so far across the pavement that I'm forced to walk on the road with the boys and didn't use the pavement for
37 3 point turns about 5 feet in front of DS1 who is unable to compute that a moving car on the pavement is as likely to run him over as one on the road, so keeps on walking.
We live about a third of a mile down a private lane, pitch black and unlit. We never drive more than twenty mph, usually less. In the winter its a popular footpath for dog walkers.None of them make any effort to wear a single item of hi viz. One particular guy walks two black dogs, dressed head to toe in black with a hoodie and also has an ipod plugged in so he doesnt hear you.
Its really hard to see them and quite heart in mouth sometimes as you come upon them. just seems irresponsible really. I think you do have an element of needing to take responsibility for your own safety.
As a horserider I never leave the yard without several items of hi viz on me and the horse-just sensible really.
You don't deliberately pull onto a grass verge at anywhere around 50 miles an hour to allow another car to pass. You have no idea what is in there, ditches, flytipped junk etc. It sounds more like the driver was driving inappropriately fast for the road and mounted the verge when he met another car on the single track road to avoid a collision, then hit the girl. The judge found the driver 100% at fault. I'd say there's a reason.
Thanks for the clarification, Momb. I knew it wasn't a simple case of pedestrian staying in middle of road as driver approach a bend or some such. I agree the driver was at fault.
Actually she was on the verge: he'd pulled on to the grass to allow another vehicle to pass on the lane. He was under the speed limit as it was a 60mph country lane but this does not mean that he was going at an appropriate speed (over 50) when he hit the child walking along. She wan't wearing hi viz: he wasn't driving on the road. If there had been a pavement there would be no case. The insurers are saying that as she rode horses she should have known to wear hi viz. She didn't hack on the roads, only on the field and therefore didn't have hi viz.
This case has huge ramifications for liability of children in accidents, and is, imo driven by the insurers to put a grey area into legislation for future cases. In this case he mounted the verge at 50mph, and she is brain damaged and needs constant care. The original findings should stand.
Wasn't she on the verge, which he drove onto after overtaking?
Of course they should. Years ago I was driving down the road when a girl ran straight out in the middle of the road between two parked cars, hit the side wing of my car and went over the bonnet.
But in this particular case I'm not so sure. Because at what point do you say enough visibility is enough? As snorbs said, do we all have to wear flashing neon lights with high vis jackets?
Just because he was driving at the speed limit does not mean he is absolved of blame. The limit is as the word suggests...the LIMIT. If road conditions were dark and the road was straight then he should have used his full beams. If there was a car the other way then both sets of lights should be enough to see the child. If the road was twisty turny then 30mph may have been an inappropriate amount of speed.
Difficult to say but I don't want to see kids being made a scapegoat here to save a few quid which is how it reads at the moment. Certainly makes me not want to give Churchill my business.
I was brought up in the country from the age of 10. No street lights, and no pavements for the most part, so if you were walking somewhere, you walked on the road or the verge. But because everywhere was further from everywhere else, iyswim, there were very few pedestrians, especially at night, and I would guess that that is still the case, so it would be understandable if the driver thought that the likelihood of coming across a pedestrian was low, and drove accordingly. At night, in the country, you can drive for miles without seeing a single living creature on or near the road.
None of which excuses what he did, but it does go towards explaining it a bit, I think.
I honestly believe that we all have to be safety-conscious. No-one is ever going to prioritise my own safety more highly than I do - but I know that I also have a responsibility for the safety of others too.
I thought that the driver was judged to be going too fast?
It was a dark country road near stables-surely usual speed limits don´t apply?
She was also exonerated of any "blame".
So, whilst a hi vis jacket might have been a good idea, it doesn´t make what happened any more her fault or any less the driver´s fault.
She also wasn´t walking where he should have been driving-she wasn´t on the road!
This isn't about the driver's behaviour and criminal culpability though, it's about the insurance company not wanting to pay out. It is the fundamental law of the road that the least vulnerable users have to take the most responsibility. That's why we have compulsory insurance for drivers. If you erode that principle, then pedestrians will end up having to take out insurance too.
When you drive you're in charge of a machine that cn easily cause a lot of damage, that puts the onus on the driver. It isn't the pedestrian that is threatening anyone.
The girl probably did take some responsibility for her safety, and she's certainly paying a cost for the accident. There may well have been other things she could have done and I'll bet now she wishes she had, but that doesn't mean she should be required to do them.
I think laws and decisions that put the onus on the pedestrian just set up a culture that accepts more reckless driving. Pedestrians have plenty of incentive to be safe, they won't all choose the same levels of risk, but that doesn't mean they should be more responsible for the costs of those who actually cause the damage. It's drivers that create the risk, they are the ones the law should focus on making responsible.
@ snorbs in her flashing body armour (half dalek half christmas tree)
Apparently this youngster had just returned from riding her horse so maybe should have had some highway code awareness but still just a kid. She did also have earphones plugged in so couldnt hear the car. However just read up that the car was below the 50mph limit. Maybe we ought to focus on lowering limits in the dark or poor visability.
I sort of agree.
pedestrians should more visible, esp children.
I think it should be illegal to sell children's outer clothing without plenty of reflective material.
however, drivers have a duty of care as explained by quite a few previous posters. after all they have a drivers licence and therefore know that they are operating a dangerous thing and that they should be extra careful.
I think that they should take some responsibility. As a cyclist I've had pedestrians step out onto cycle track without looking more times than I can count almost causing me to crash. I'm always alert around pedestrians, but a bit of thought wouldn't hurt.
My DS has high-vis stickers on the back of his coat. It's only sensible to make yourself as visible as possible.
As I have pointed out to ds3 on several occasions, specialsubject. But he does that teenage-y eye rolling thing because he is, of course, immortal.
yes, pedestrians do need to make themselves more visible. That way there might be fewer accidents to argue about.
going along staring at the mobile phone or with ears plugged with loud music is also a Darwin award waiting to happen.
Maybe cars need reversing alarms, like lorries, Kirsty?
Pedestrians walking along unlit country lanes DO need to take responsibility for being visible. You can't just throw it back onto the car driver,and say they've got to drive more defensively.
Somone in dark clothes, with no lights or reflectors is just NOT visible to a driver on dipped headlights until you are almost on top of them, even at 30. <voice of recent experience>. How slow do you expect drivers to go?
I think pedestrians do have a responsibility to make themselves safe, just as car drivers have a responsibility to make sure they drive in as safe a manner as possible. I see so many people walking out into a road without looking, often wearing headphones too - so they can't see or hear.
Our road has a sharp bend where there are no pavements and only wide enough for one vehicle. The amount of pedestrians who walk out blindly is unbelievable - I am just waiting to hear about a death, it can only be a matter of time I'm sure. Especially as double-decker buses and lorries frequently use that road.
I would however like to see walking behind a reversing vehicle made illegal - I have lost count of how many times people have done this to me in supermarket carparks and on the school run. When a vehicle is moving and the reverse lights are on - wait people, wait - don't walk in out front of it FFS!!!
I think it would be a very good thing if people in general were encouraged to take more responsibility for their own safety.
I agree with lijkk that it is normally not difficult to step off the road onto a verge when walking along an unlit country lane. And I would be particularly careful as a pedestrian approaching a corner for example as the driver may not see me until the last minute.
Yes drivers have a duty of care but surely pedestrians also have a responsibility to reduce risk where possible too.
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