One retired GP wrote ' I felt ashamed of my profession and cried at your distress'

(94 Posts)
claig Germany Sat 08-Dec-12 13:45:07

Ann Clywd MP asked a question in this week's PMQ and it was very emotional.

It is yet another case of disgusting treatment of patients in our hospitals. Why does this continue?

I hope there is an effective campaign that can change such shocking treatment.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2244912/Ann-Clwyd-MPs-heartbreaking-account-NHS-neglect-husband-Owen-Roberts.html

scottishmummy Argentina Sat 08-Dec-12 14:01:37

firstly how v tragic and sad
probably lots factors eg financial cuts,not enough staff on duty,low morale,lack of attention, inadequate care, hosp lacking in duty care
terrible to have this enacted on loved one

claig Germany Sat 08-Dec-12 14:16:36

scottish, something has to be done about this. Our hospitals must have management procedures that never allow disgusting treatment of patients and their loved ones. The public pays for these services and the public deserves a first-class service.

We spend billions on our health service. We all deserve much better.

If the loved ones of prominent people receive such treatment, then what sort of treatment might the general public receive.

There are so many shocking stories of bad treatment of elderly people. Andy Burnham said on Question Time that the health service is very good, but that as an MP his postbag does contain letters which indicate that some elderly people suffer from dehydration on hospital wards.

These things have been reported so often, and yet they still seem to continue.

There needs to be a national urgency to change the culture that allows these things to occur.

scottishmummy Argentina Sat 08-Dec-12 14:20:07

I agree,inadequate care is a failing
pragmatically trusts are under pressure,govt cuts,low morale,work pressure
now none if these factors excuse poor care,but do explain situationally how things arise

tiredemma Sat 08-Dec-12 14:21:19

When you have one nurse doing the job of three nurses you are going to have situations whereby care and standards are delivered much lower than we should expect.

claig Germany Sat 08-Dec-12 14:22:47

They tell us on TV that it is partly to do with the "training" and that there is an emphasis on degrees etc. and not enough on people skills. But I don't believe that that is at the heart of it. You don't need to train people to have human compassion and feeling.

It must be something else, and it should be able to be solved by a good management which makes treating patients and their loved ones a paramount goal.

scottishmummy Argentina Sat 08-Dec-12 14:24:47

yes posts get frozen,staff leave not replaced
Huge workload ESP winter and seasonal illnesses
I hope mp has complained about this,it's awful

OpheliasWeepingWillow Sat 08-Dec-12 14:25:33

I am sad to say I have been in hospitals in the UK, Africa and Asia and it is only in the UK (NHS) that I have been insulted, ignored, shouted at and made to feel like a worm for being ill by nurses.

This includes public hospitals in developing countries.

I cannot imagine how nursing in the UK has become so bad (from personal experience). The thought of being hospitalized in the UK again gives me chills.

Again, only based on personal experience.

claig Germany Sat 08-Dec-12 14:27:01

It is not just staff shortages. As Ann Clywd said

'She recalls: ‘Every time I tried to talk to one of the nurses, they were either on the phone or talking to one another. I know they were busy, but it did not explain how they could completely ignore a patient.

‘Whenever I asked when we’d see someone, the answer was always: “In a minute.” There was busy-ness, laughter, joking … but nobody addressed our concerns.
‘A doctor arrived with a tick list. He was brusque, arrogant and rude — he didn’t even introduce himself. When I asked, “What’s your name?”, he looked at me as if I’d said something impertinent. After he’d asked his questions, he just went off.'

There is something deeply wrong in the culture. Maybe management 'targets' have contributed to this turning away from patient care. I don't know. But somebody needs to look into why this occurs so often.

Welovecouscous Sat 08-Dec-12 14:27:19

Terrible sad

tiredemma Sat 08-Dec-12 14:28:01

I think that the media would want us to believe that since nursing became an all graduate profession that standards have slipped. I don't believe this. I'm a ward manager , my best nurses are the newly/recently qualified. They are keen, energetic and deliver exemplary care.

OpheliasWeepingWillow Sat 08-Dec-12 14:30:40

That may be true for you tiredemma and your ward is doing something right but what of those patients that are being failed? As a ward manager what is your perspective?

OpheliasWeepingWillow Sat 08-Dec-12 14:31:16

And to be honest the media is just reflecting my personal experience (consistent experience at that)

Welovecouscous Sat 08-Dec-12 14:35:14

Emma, that's not my take on it. But I think there is a lack of caring and professionalism creeping into the NHS.

This week I went to a clinic at a major teaching hospital - I asked a member of a staff a question and she didn't reply verbally, just took my form and handed it back with what I needed written down. She and another member of staff were busy gossiping about a "mad" patient who had sent them an Xmas card.

When I went for a blood test recently several members of staff were talking over me about the previous patient who'd complained about being hurt during a blood test.

I have been ill off and on during my life so have seen a lot of hospitals and I think this kind of thing is increasing.

tiredemma Sat 08-Dec-12 14:35:50

I really don't tolerate poor practice and the staff know it! For me I try to get the message across to my staff that we should always treat our ladies ( all female ward) as we would treat our own mothers.

I can't never stand anyone that would want to be a nurse and not care.

tiredemma Sat 08-Dec-12 14:36:50

* understand.

tiredemma Sat 08-Dec-12 14:37:30

Welove. That is disgusting. This frustrates me so much.

claig Germany Sat 08-Dec-12 14:41:41

'For me I try to get the message across to my staff'

Well done, tiredemma. I think that is what is failing in some other wards. Management at all levels must instil and get this message across. The 'service' ethos must be second-nature and come above all else. It seems it has slipped in some cases.

The doctor who didn't introduce himself to Ann Clywd and who was arrogant and rude seems to dosplay a lack of 'service' ethos. However busy nurses and doctors are, they are all there to serve patients and they are not too important to show respect and common decency to every single patient.

jaffacake2 Sat 08-Dec-12 14:50:44

I trained as a nurse a long time ago when you learnt on the wards next to a senior nurse.Now the students spend more time in uni than patient contact.I dont know if this has changed how they deal with patients but certainately when my daughter was in for a large tumour the care was appalling. In the end I was there from 8am to 9pm to nurse her myself. She was 17 yrs old.

I put in an official complaint and had the usual of "overwork,shortage of staff"
But is wasnt because a trio would be laughing and chatting to each other round the central desk whilst buzzers were going unanswered
When I was a staff nurse I looked after a 32 bed ward with another nurse and 2 auxillaries. There seems to be lots of staff now but less done.

Welovecouscous Sat 08-Dec-12 14:54:33

Jaffa, that is exactly my experience - I think people feel they don't have to care any more sad so sorry to hear about your daughter

Emma the NHS has wonderful staff too - you sound like one and the mw who delivered my DS were amazing.

Abra1d Sat 08-Dec-12 14:55:26

My mother was a senior nurse before she retired. She often sits in wards with my elderly father and watches teams of nurses who seem to be completely unmanaged, unsure of which task to do in which order. It's hopeless in this particular hospital in SW London, just hopeless. She has to pin herself down to resist the urge to stand up and start managing them (which she was very good at).

TakeMyEyesButNotTheGoat Sun 09-Dec-12 10:33:20

Absolutely true about management (or lack of)

When the ward managers are on shift, everything usually runs smoothly.

When they are not, which is usually evenings, nights and weekends, the ward can descend into chaos.

Working in a hospital, your workload is unpredictable. Should you have an emergency on your hands (emergency covers many things, not just cardiac arrests) you need experienced staff to deal with it. How can a Qualified nurse deal with running a ward without the support of management if she has only been qualified for 2 years?

Trying to get hold of a senior nurse can be a nightmare. We need them on the ward's at all times. It just won't happen unfortunately.

Cozy9 Sun 09-Dec-12 11:24:09

I think they need to bring back matrons like in the old days. They used to run the wards with a rod of iron. Too many white collar management nowadays, and too many nice middle-class graduates who don't like getting their hands dirty!

scottishmummy Argentina Sun 09-Dec-12 11:27:54

that's just utter rot.good wards don't run in fear or rod of iron
they run well with good staff,good clinical rapport with mdt,and ability to deliver care
advocating work by fear isn't answer,and I think nurses as graduate profession is recognition of skills training they have

TakeMyEyesButNotTheGoat Sun 09-Dec-12 11:36:27

cozy a lot of management are clinically trained nurses btw.

Ward sisters are 'management'

Senior nurses are old style matrons.

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