Sgt Danny Nightingale court martial(35 Posts)
Is this madness or am I missing something?
I really don't understand why he has been shown no leniency.
The more I read about this case the more it angers me TBH.
His family, his defence team and the media are liars.
It shows how the media can manipulate the gullible.
Nah, of course not. The idiots just keep them as gizzits. <sigh>
They are quite commonly brought back under that pretext though, so it was a good excuse to use in the first instance.
I'm slightly alarmed by what in the lord's name the pair of them thought they were doing in their little housy with all that crap everywhere, though. And however much of a war hero, blah, I have no idea what he's got on his commanding officers to cause them to make that much fuss on his behalf. (One assumes they ditched they own trophies or got someone else to carry and sort out the proper paperwork).
I am glad he's home, but the whole thing is a bit of a mess.
I don't believe he ever intended to hand it in/get it decommissioned.
Well, exactly. There are thousands of war trophies all over the country, from this sort of pistol crap to rocket launchers and pretty big pieces of kit.
The boys all know the rules and they just ignore them.
He had two years to get it decommissioned and presented to the mess. Quite what he actually thought he was doing with the fecking ammo is a whole other ball game.
By 'this sort of thing' I mean soldiers having weapons they shouldn't have.
I agree that the MOD/british army seem to have a relaxed attitude towards brain injuries etc and being passed fit for duty [I don't have any personal experience of this, just things Ive read]
But Im amazed that people truely believe this sort of thing is not usual.
This happens. A lot.
Its just most people on the whole get away with it.
It certainly does.
Link to court martial document
And as I said earlier in the thread, he was never going to do 18 mos.
Silly boy. Should have dealt with it properly at the time. He had two years to do so before his collapse.
Hopefully this will have the added effect of highlighting the truly shocking abomination that is the MOD's response to head trauma/ brain injury and return to work, though.
The two things need to be dealt with completely separately.
If it all works well, they will instigate routine and frequent checks for head injured personnel (rather than the 'ohhhhhhh, you should be all right, let us know if you feel poorly' bollocks that leads to folk with TBI being left in charge of planes and weapons) and tighten up their extraordinarily lax attitude to war trophies.
<brushes off hands>
Jobs a good 'un.
Ah, I hadn't heard that Amberleaf. If true, that does put rather a different complexion on it.
Has anyone else read the court martial document?
He knew he had it.
It was in a case on a shelf in his wardrobe, the ammo was in a box under his bed.
His housemate was also jailed for 2 years for the weapons/ammo found in his possession in the same raid.
There was lots about this case that [understandably for his case] wasn't mentioned in all the publicity.
The sentence is too harsh. Yes he had a gun. But the fact he had a memory loss condition I think is a large mitigating circumstance here. I dont think anyone has challenged that condition so everyone accepts it is true.
Plus the gun was stored for years at the base. If he had intended to smuggle it in, he'd have to been extraordinarily patient.
If he didn't have the memory condition I'd be more likely to think he's trying it on
I'm pleased he's been released. The sentence was extraordinarily harsh.
Errrm, so what happened to the mandatory 5 years for possession of a firearm ?
Very pleased that he's been released today with a 12 mth suspended sentence. Far more appropriate sentence.
Just for a moment imagine he is a black guy who took a gun off someone in a gang.
And then stored it at home and 'forgot' - would you feel the same.
Yes I know this guy served his country and lost friends, but that is not part of the law. The law relates to being in posession of a gun.
I think he was properly convicted, but the sentence sounds harsh. It does depend what the sentencing guidelines/relevant statutes are though. He may have been given the lowest sentence the judge felt he could impose.
And we are all assuming that his arguments about memory loss/storage etc were accepted. Possibly he has got this conviction and sentence because the judge did not accept those parts of his case. Certainly one account of the case that I read suggested the judge didn't accept the memory loss caused him to completely forget about the gun.
Weeeeeellllll, I dunno. It might make the young lads think twice about smuggling trophies. It's a pisser for Danny, as he's only done what everyone else was doing all the way along, but they all knew the potential outcome. So, I dunno, there will probably be less of this stuff being brought back as a direct result.
So, he gets to be the fall guy with a lighter sentence because of his med circs. I'm curious why they decided to go after him, particularly (and I still want to know what they were looking for in the 'unrelated' investigation that threw this up ) I mean, it could have been anyone.
I'll eat my hat if he does more than 3 mos though.
Have just read the other stuff btw. The pistol was in the house he was living in at the time (shared with another bloke whose wife had accused him of assault - which is presumably why the police were searching the place) not in storage. It had been in storage, but he'd taken it home. (Well, to the house he was living in, not home where his wife and family were living).
He should have had it decommissioned and presented to the Mess like he had planned to. Silly silly.
It does back up another thread about the paucity of care for brain injured troops though. <sigh> Different subject, but the whole thing is a mess.
madwoman I'm sorry to read your dh was injured. I supposed what I struggle with is the fact that justice has not been done here it has just been seen to be done, which makes a mockery of justice itself and no one wins when that happens.
I should also add that dh got blown up in a training accident. the glorious powers that be decided the bloke who blew him up had done nowt wrong, and promoted him.
Never let it be said that I think military justice makes sense. That isn't at all my point.
Yes, he did. Two years after his Iraq tour. On a fundraising thang in 2009.
I read the article. <shrugs> I know loads of soldiers, sailors and airman who have trophies. One got caught. It isn't a particularly big deal. It was packed upAND RETURNED TO HIM BY HIS COLLEAGUES. He had it in the UK. In Hereford. It may have been in the unit storage (article doesn't say) but loads of blokes leave kit at work. My friend above had his stuff in the unit storage.
Sure - I get that it's a pretty dumb thing to lock someone up for. But them's the breaks. He knew, and his mates knew, that bringing it back to the UK could result in this.
Do I think he should be locked up? Not particularly. Do I think he was a dumb ass? Yes. Do I think his mates were? Yes.
They all knew they shouldn't bring the stuff back. Most of them ignore that.
The brain injury two years after the actual event is something of a misnomer. It does give his legal team a way of shortening the sentence though.
(Dh was blown up btw. We're very used to military types with brain injury and memory loss here. So I'm not being heartless. I'm saying they all took the chance to bring back a trophy, before his collapse on a fundraiser and now he's paying the price. In this circ I do wonder if he wasn't the perfect fall guy to try and stop everyone bringing this stuff back. Again.
There's only so many posters you can put up to remind them they aren't allowed to. Presumably someone felt that a prison sentence might be a more effective deterrent.
madwoman have you actually read the facts of the case or are you just saying that all soldiers are the same and being generic in your comments? He suffered a brain injury that caused memory loss.
He wasn't in possession of it in the UK, it was in storage. He never had it once he left Iraq and it stayed there. He didn't even remember he had the gun let alone possess it.
The sentence length is irrelevant. I assume he will have had a dishonourable discharge (or whatever it is called) and that is appalling for a man that gave such immense military service for his country.
And I still think there's a lot unsaid. No idea who/ when the last bloke charged with possession of a similar trophy, but he/ they took a punt on not getting caught (like everyone else who dumped stuff during the amnesty) and were unlucky.
He'll have lost count of the number of times he's had to swear 'I have no live rounds, misfires, or empty cases in my possession', to claim he 'forgot' is risible.
He took a chance, and he got caught.
Hey fricking' ho.
It will never have been logged that way, it will just have been his mates chucking stuff in a box. No way of proving it, they won't have been using the correct forms and writing down everything they were packing, as would normally happen. I'm vaguely curious who signed the air waybill (because I'm a pedant) but I'm willing to bet there was either no paperwork at all (and it was checked by a mate claiming it was his) or just said 'PEs'.
In any case, I assume he's not been charged with bringing into the country illegally, just being in possession of it. Which he undoubtedly was. <shrug>
It will have been his choice to go back in a hurry to break news to family. Plenty of others to do it in UK. So no 'had to' except a strong personal desire to. Which is fine, and very moral. But to have PEs shipped back from ops in his circs, I'm struggling to believe he hasn't been in the box since for his gear. And struggling to believe that he forgot he had the thing, even for the two years prior to his collapse.
He won't do 18mos. He'll be out in three. If that.
I find it odd that his gear was packed by others and sent to Hereford for storage because he had to go back to the UK to tell someone a member of his team had been killed and yet he is the one who is charged? Why wasn't the person who packed his gear charged as they were responsible for shipping back to the UK (where I assume the apparent crime was committed).
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.