A school with only ethnic miority children would the education level be like?

(38 Posts)
alfy Wed 31-Oct-12 22:47:57

A school full of only ethnic minority children would the education level be low and would these kids be able to mix with white children when older?

procrastinor Tue 06-Nov-12 20:03:00

Ok I'm going to breathe before posting.

I'm hoping that you just worded your OP incredibly badly. But tbh I just cannot work out what you might actually mean. Are you from an ethnic minority and are worried about others preconceptions?

Because gosh you come across really really badly.

A school full of only ethnic minority children would the education level be low and would these kids be able to mix with white children when older?

Of course not because everyone knows blacks/asians are pretty unsocialised uncivilised heathens who need the calming influence of good ol' white people to teach them proper manners and education. Just a single white child is enough to raise the IQ of a black child, doncha know hmm

reddwarf Tue 06-Nov-12 19:52:45

MrsDV, i agree with you there, and like i said, I am sure for you it is worse,because you have the obvious colour problem to boot, so even witout talking they stand out, but I am aware my 3 boys get judged more harshly and for example are tolerated less by certain teachers because they are foreign. Or critisised for not speaking the local language. (we do, but never together) Having 2 boys with Adhd, sitting quietly and behaving well is not their forté. ...

Having worked in an all boys school, and having 3 sons myelf i do have a strong empathy for the problems boys face in our society and how hard it can be to fit in but also not blindly follow.

For girls it's tough too of course, but in very different ways. I think i worry more for my boys than for my dd, but then she's younger and still under a lot of protection as it were.

nailak, i agree with you re the age thing, though kids of all ages can be surprisingly mean and horrible sad

I guess i didn't read the op properly. I immediately thought of the langauge implications of having so many different ethnic groups, not the coldour.

EmpressOfTheSevenRomanCandles Tue 06-Nov-12 19:48:12

It's not just the boys who get stigmatised.

It's common for my black DW to get patted down when we fly anywhere. Never happens to me (white).
DD (12) often gets followed by security guards in shops. I don't see it happening to white girls of her age.

nailak Tue 06-Nov-12 18:57:25

reddwarf I suppose it depends on ages of kids, at infant school age I would say they are colour blind, they are also unaware of other differences, such as visible SEN and disabilities to some extent, they are very accepting ime.

I can assure you that there is no "street talk" in my house.

But threads like this make me realise that for as much as we live in a supposed multi cultural city, my boys are still looked at in that way.

They still get looked at like "gangstas" people still assume they are troubled, poor, unable to achieve.

MrsDeVere Tue 06-Nov-12 16:21:01

I don't want to get into an argument because I do not believe you are a foaming racist.

I am simply being perfectly honest about how your original post comes across to me. My response was defensive but you must see how important this is to a mother of four black boys. I am sure you do. You seem like you do.

I do give you credit. I don't think you are an idiot. I just think you are making assumptions based on stereotypes. Stereotypes my boys and my OH have to fight everyday. They can be subtle they can be glaring. But they are there.

I tell my kids that they have to behave better than their white peers because if they are mucking about they will be the ones who are picked out from the group.

reddwarf Tue 06-Nov-12 16:13:48

"But your post is offensive in that it contains so many stereotypes and subjective judgements. You are blaming the black children for the poor behaviour of their white peers.

The whole accent thing too...street slang is not accepted in many of the mixed and black families I know. You 'leave it at the door'

The fact the white boys aspire to speak and act like gangstas is surely more the fault of our cleb obsessed media...why lay yet another sin at the feet of west Indian boys?"

Maybe if you re read my post you'll see i never said any of those things, and have certainly never thought it. I think the OP and possibly your past experiences have made you very defensive, and probably rightly so, but give me some credit.

I never commented on the behaviour or suggested black boys made white boys behave worse. I purely commented on the white boys talking like their black friemds. I didn't even lay 'blame' for that at the feet of the black boys. It was purely a statement of fact! They did and probably still do talk like that. And you're right, the whole 'gangsta' and sleb culture is probably as much to do with it, as well as possibly just wanting to sound like their mates. I never said it wasn't! I merely said they talked like them.

MrsDeVere Tue 06-Nov-12 15:18:52

But she didn't mention language at all and she mentions being able to mix with white children.

So she is talking about black children, in the broadest sense. Ethnics hmm

This is why she got the replies she did.

I accept that you did not mean to offend and I do not deny that different ethnic groups are capable of racism towards each other.

But your post is offensive in that it contains so many stereotypes and subjective judgements. You are blaming the black children for the poor behaviour of their white peers.

The whole accent thing too...street slang is not accepted in many of the mixed and black families I know. You 'leave it at the door'

The fact the white boys aspire to speak and act like gangstas is surely more the fault of our cleb obsessed media...why lay yet another sin at the feet of west Indian boys?

reddwarf Tue 06-Nov-12 12:00:39

MrsDeVere, I am very sorry my post offended you. I don't live in UK so have some experience of being traeted badly as I'm a foreigner and my kids/ we are 'immigrants', and have had some upsetting experiences, but without the added stigma of dark skin colour and the accompanying prejudice. So I really empathise with having the battle that you do face i did not mean to offend.

Unfortunately, it was a fact that in that school, these things did happen on a daily basis. I found it genuinely sad and upsetting. I only mentioned it because someone had said kids are colour blind and to kids skin colour wasn't an issue, but in my experience, the opposite was true.

But to the OP who is thinking about this, the main issue from her POV is not the colour of the skin, or the fact many kids are from 'ethnic minorities' but the number of kids who have English as a 2nd language, the general level of ability in English and how well the school is managed.

Iggly Tue 06-Nov-12 11:20:20

Do you mean ethnic minorities who cannot speak English?

MrsDeVere Tue 06-Nov-12 11:19:01

Those terrible, terrifying black kids and their savage ways.
Not only are they violent and racist, the poor white kids have to copy their evil ways in order to survive.

You are talking about my kids.

My black boys who have to deal with the protected fears of others, that they are violent and sexually agressive and beyond normal boundaries.

You just added to that.

reddwarf Tue 06-Nov-12 08:13:39

I think it's a relevant question and I think the op has every right to ask it without being ridiculed or treated as a racist!

I taught in a secondary school like this and it was very very tough. I, and many of the staff felt we would never consider sending our own child to that school.

A huge problem was it was badly managed, to be fair. But we were in an area where most of the local schools were selective (this was a few years ago, don't know if things have changed in this regard). So our school was the dumping ground for all the "undesirables" that no one else wanted, either because of poor behaviour or poor achievement, so we had a huge proportion of very difficult and challenging pupils.

Having so many kids with english as a second language was an enormous challenge. Many of the kids weren't wonderfully bilingual with all the plusses that brings. They had their first language and simply struggled enormously with English. This did have an impact on the lessons. A huge one.

I also think it's ridiculously naIve to say "kids are colour blind tbh,"

Many of the kids I taught were not. They were utterly vile to each other. (paler skinned) black kids took the piss massively out of darker skinned black kids. The poor kids from somalia were on the receiving end of most racist comments. West Indians hated Africans, African hated Indians. God it was truly frightening and depressing. I had never encountered racisism before (or since) anything like what I experienced in this school. Actually, only very rarely were white kids involved. (I guess being in the minority they would have been stupid to say anything, but only rarely did they receive any comments. Most of the white kids, I guess to fit in, adopted the same accent/style of talking as their black friends)

There was probably one class per year of the "hard working immigrant who saw education as a valuable means to achieve success stereotype". But unfortunately most of the other kids were from homes which didn't place any value on educational achievement, so no value in it, had few ambitions, and in fact held the teachers, especially female ones, in complete derision and contempt.

I would not rule out all schools with a high number of children from ethnic minorities, but I would be cautious, and think it's perfectly reasonable and sensible. I think issues like the level of English language ability and integration are ones that need careful consideration.

ReallyTired Mon 05-Nov-12 22:45:02

I believe the worse performing ethnic minority are traveller chidlren. However there are children from every ethnic group who do well and some who do badly.

In answer to your question I think you have to look at factors like povety, ablity to speak english rather than colour of skin.

Primafacie Thu 01-Nov-12 11:27:54

I went to an all-white school and married a 'brown' guy, so I don't think the ability to mix with another ethnic group would be compromised once the children grow up.

As for whether the education level would be low if the school is full of ethnic minority children, it depends. Are you talking about a single ethnic group or a mix? Some minorities (e.g. Indian) are known to perform significantly better than British white children, whereas others (e.g. Black Carribean) are substantially behind at KS3/KS4.

Can you clarify your OP?

TantrumsIsTheREALPumpkinKiller Thu 01-Nov-12 10:44:43

I suppose mine would be "ethnic" as well, despite being born in this country.

Well if it makes you feel any better OP they are top set for everything, and even have white friends.

What an odd OP

MrsDeVere Thu 01-Nov-12 10:32:28

Would you include my children as one of the ethnics?
Being brown I suppose they would be classed the same as kids newly arrived from Pakistan?
But then what about the Polish children who look alright but don't talk proper yet?
Or the African kid whose parents are doctors at the local hospital?

It's just so confusing being bigoted. I don't know how people keep it ip, I really don't.

cornybeefhash Thu 01-Nov-12 10:28:06

Last stats I saw indicated that white working class boys are statistically the worst achievers in primary schools.

WofflingOn Thu 01-Nov-12 05:41:42

Worked in a school like that, in a very deprived area. First generation immigrant parents mostly, and a lot of children arriving straight off the plane too.
Excellent attitudes to education and very ambitious for the most part, they saw it as a way of escaping the poverty and illiteracy of many of their parents.
And they did.
Several of my pupils not only mixed with white children in secondary and at uni, they even married them. Did you mean your post to sound as racist and negative as it did?

EmpressOfTheSevenScreams Thu 01-Nov-12 00:53:14

My Black British DD (Yr 7) is in top sets for most subjects at her comp and G&T in Drama, English & History. If you're counting her as ethnic minority, OP, you'd need much more than a low education level.

And if what you're actually thinking about is DCs who don't have English as a first language, quite a few of them will be white. And quite a lot might even be intelligent.

claig Thu 01-Nov-12 00:47:52

OP, is your surname Garnett?

Mybabyseyes Thu 01-Nov-12 00:44:28

According to govt statistics, the ethnic group struggling the most in school is white working class boys. Statistics also show that when certain ethnic minorities move into areas with low attainment, the attainment level goes up. Might give you something to think about Op.

BackforGood Wed 31-Oct-12 23:26:01

In our Local Authority, the 'minority' group are the white children. Does that help with your strange thinking at all, or just confuse you further ?

RinderThrillerNight Wed 31-Oct-12 23:21:42

I dunno, but perhaps they might be able to construct a sentence.

I really don't understand your question OP. Why on earth would the education level be low? Why would they not be able to mix with other people?

nailak Wed 31-Oct-12 23:17:52

bilingual children have better outcomes by the age of 11 due to the skills needed in understanding two sets of grammar etc, i wish my kids were bi lingual.

and kids are colour blind tbh, my dds dont notice their friends colours, or special needs or anything like that.

noblegiraffe Wed 31-Oct-12 23:17:40

Some ethnic groups do better at school, on average, some worse on average, than white British children. Statistically speaking.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now