The offensive film

(50 Posts)
nailak Sat 22-Sep-12 01:23:48

curiosity got the better of me, I watched the film,

it is not funny or witty by anyone's terms,

it has no message behind it from the little i managed to watch,

it seems to purely exist to insult, offend, stir up hatred and mock. There is no film making merit behind it,

it is not particularly well shot or produced or directed,

and it is obvious that it has been dubbed and the actors had no idea what the final version would be.

does anyone agree or disagree with this? I mean seriously was there some humour in there that i couldn't see because of my bias?

This is not supposed to be a thread about the merits of free speech, or how we can mock one religion but another, or anything like that, but specifically a criticism (in the academic sense) of this particular film.

I have to admit I couldn't watch all of it for some reason, which I can't quite put my finger on, it was uncomfortable to watch to say the least.

but it seems there was no reason for it to be made other to get the reaction it did?

nailak Sat 22-Sep-12 01:58:08

"Insulting" the Prophet should be categorised as a form of "hate-speech" comparable to racism or Holocaust denial, as forbidden in many European countries, because the sacred image of the Prophet is a constituent element of the Muslim communal identity." Malise Rutheven

GothAnneGeddes Sat 22-Sep-12 02:33:40

Nalaik- I'm Muslim too, but I think comparing insulting the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) to Holocaust denial is in very poor taste.

The solution isn't to forbid, or protect from criticism. What we need to do is make clear that these criticism are rooted in racist, orientalist stereotypes - the Arab as the savage, uncivilised barbarous "other", these stereotypes are poisonous and harmful.

And I so very wish that: 1)Certain individuals in Muslim majority countries wouldn't use such things as an excuse to riot, and
2)The Western media wouldn't just cover the riots, but the peaceful protests too, like the one in Libya, where people were decrying the murder of the U.S ambassador. A bit analysis beyond "oh, the Arab spring's failed", wouldn't go a miss either.

Extrospektiv Sat 22-Sep-12 15:35:42

The BNP and EDL would just break the law and take their sentence. Then you would have the uncivilised spectacle of people being banged up in "free" countries for offending another religion. Fuck that.

I'll be leaving Britain if they ever got their way

Extrospektiv Sat 22-Sep-12 15:35:53

And I'm a fucking moderate Muslim

Extrospektiv Sat 22-Sep-12 15:40:14

Further to the threads on Sarah Catt and judges applying law/personal prejudice, judges should simply refuse to enforce such a law, OR one about imprisoning people for their personal views on the Holocaust, however misguided. I don't give a flying fuck what a "democratically elected" government says, these laws should not be obeyed or enforced any more than Hitler and dictators. The majority silencing the minority is not acceptable "democracy" (otherwise segregation, slavery, anti-gay laws, etc. would all have been ok because 51% or more voted them in against a minority they saw as "other".)

"I was only obeying orders" is not an excuse for thoughtcrime. Europe can't talk to the rest of the world about human rights and civil liberty until it stops all thoughtcrime prosecutions and frees all prisoners of conscience. Until then they are hypocrites.

nailak Sat 22-Sep-12 20:04:42

it wasnt me that said the holocaust denial thing, it was from BBC website, an expert commentator, if you have done open uni intro to religions you would have read her books.

What about the film? its only reason for being seems to be to offend and insult? is there any humour I cant see? Is it ok to make a film that deliberately sets out to get the reaction it did? is it not incitement of some sort?

GothAnneGeddes Sat 22-Sep-12 20:38:26

Nalaik- I don't care what books she's written, on this issue she is wrong and her comparison is crass and offensive.

To your second point, considering that in the Quran, Musa and Haroon (as) were told to speak to Pharaoh, who was evil + wicked, in the best manner, a mere film should surely be countered in a dignified manner. Did the Prophet Muhammed (was) not give "Don't be angry" as his most important piece of advice and repeated that phrase three times in a row?

The film is an ill advised piece of troll-bait, but no excuse for rioting. None and certainly such behaviour has no justification in Islam.

Laws against such films would be difficult to enforce internationally and could possibly be abused to stifle messages the authorities wish to suppress.

nailak Sat 22-Sep-12 23:36:56

I agree with you. If we all ignored it, it would make less impact.

defuse Sat 22-Sep-12 23:40:25

Assalamualaikum,

I dont agree wih the rioting but everyone knows that there are more issues going on with the rioting and not just this film.

I do hold my prophet in high regard, to me and millions others, insulting my prophet causes immense revulsion. I strongly want to protect my prophet from criticism and want it forbidden. It is all based on lies and frankly speaking - blatant islamophobia.

I also do not believe that it is ok to criticise and insult my prophet. I dont care if the media etc were critical of muslims in general. They could do all the cartoons in the world slating muslims of today for all i care. but I cannot accept any disrespect of my prophet in the name of free speech. I wont accept those words as anything but venomous racist islamophobia masqueraded as freedom of speech. Before anyone asks, i am not in agreement with the rioting or the loss of innocent life.

alexpolismum Mon 24-Sep-12 08:48:19

GothAnneGeddes

I agree with you completely.

I have frequently stated my position as an atheist on MN, and I have had several lively discussions on Islam with some of you. But I think that a direct insult/ slander on a person such as Islam's foremost prophet is unacceptable.

However, this film should not be dignified by such a massive response. It should have remained ignored on Youtube, to be viewed only by the ultra-nationalist types in various countries who have had their senses of humour and logic surgically removed.

It was obviously produced precisely to provoke such a response, so that the makers could turn round and say "See, I was right! Look how dreadful and uncivilised they are!" Therefore the best response is none at all.

I don't think this sort of thing should be banned - I agree with "GothAnneGeddes" that education is the way forward, and more positive images of Arabs or of Muslim countries, less of the "savage mindless Muslim terrorist" sort of stuff that seems to get so much airspace.

edam Mon 24-Sep-12 10:29:28

Thought this was an interesting take on the 'all Muslims are extremists happy to form a violent mob' idea. Love the #Muslimrage comments.

Set aside that, of course, is the Pakistani minister who has offered a £100k reward for anyone who kills the idiot film-maker - but that's apparently designed to stop protesters damaging any more of his family's property...

edam Mon 24-Sep-12 10:30:34

Oh, but equally set aside the set aside with the Libyans who drove the mob that killed the US Ambassador out of Benghazi...

messyisthenewtidy Mon 24-Sep-12 19:37:30

Has anyone seen this video? It's great..

I just do not understand that so many across the muslim world took offense.
It says more about them really.

The film is so insignificant like so much of the rubbish that circulates on the net.
Muslims should concentrate on their "aggiornamento" instead of being constantly childishly offended.
They were conned and played right into it.

Am a lapsed muslim btw. Utterly disgusted.
Muslim is a word I have become very reluctant to use. I now state my ethnic origin.
Thank God I come from a tradition of sufism. My identlty is clearly marked by a cultural, intellectual and artistic heritage but I have no faith whatsoever to pass on to my children.
I don't want them to associate with any muslim education whatsoever. I don't want them to see muslims on the news, there are no role models.

GothAnneGeddes Tue 25-Sep-12 11:19:45

Oh please, laptop. We've recently had a Muslim woman win a Nobel Peace Prize and you say there are no role models?

If you choose to look no further then the end of you nose, that's your choice, but it says more about you, then it does about Muslims.

lljkk Tue 25-Sep-12 11:33:09

Problem is rumour that this the US govt real agenda, what US govt & West truly think, some sort of twisted idea that the US govt helped produce this film as a form of propaganda. I know it's twisted logic, but when inclination to only think of the West as interfering murderous Crusaders is entrenched, then it's easy to embrace the conspiracy theory.

GothAnn, can you be more prosaic than a nobel price?
That does not translate very well to toddlers and young children.

GothAnneGeddes Tue 25-Sep-12 12:18:53

How is a Nobel Peace Prize prosaic? Are you sure that's the word you wanted to use?

You said there were no role models, I pointed out one, if you want more, go and google them yourself, I cannot abide the sort of lapsed Muslim self-pity you're espousing.

Sunnywithachanceofshowers Tue 25-Sep-12 12:27:46

I'm not a Muslim, and I've seen the film. I agree Nailak that it was designed to be insulting and provocative. I can't see anything funny about it. I also agree with laptop that it was a 'trap', and that a large number of Muslims fell into it.

However, I do agree with free speech. Many governments would love to be able to censor the internet and control communication between people. Banning rubbish like this would give governments carte blanche to stop people from finding out things for themselves.

I think the person / people who put this film together got exactly the reaction they were looking for. We can't let them win.

crescentmoon Tue 25-Sep-12 12:39:48

iv not seen the film as i have a blank space in my head where the Prophet's face is supposed to be and i want to keep it that way.

i follow the sufi path in islam, its very non violent and has many orthodox, liberal and secular streams within it alone just like in islam as a whole. but what is distinctive about sufi islam is the very deep love of the prophet (pbuh) that is ingrained within it. to the extent we are often accused by our muslim brothers and sisters of almost worshipping him. when i hear of the insults against him i am deeply pained. it is more than offence, i am pained. more than if i was slandered, or my husband, or my parents.

but i also think the riots are playing into the hands of enemies. so predictable.

crescentmoon Tue 25-Sep-12 12:42:39

iv heard there are other videos just as slanderous about the Prophet (pbuh), what was happening in egypt at the time that man brought up this video in particular. thats the important question. was there an election run off or something? were the egyptian salafists trying to face off against the muslim brotherhood?

Yes prosaic as ordinary.
As a role model as a civil rights activist not as a muslim.Like shirin abadi. The veil makes little difference.
There is no self pity at all. There is a very strong identity independently of superstition.
The ones who who are defensive about Z-series internet garbage are the brainless spineless self pitying mass.

GothAnneGeddes Tue 25-Sep-12 13:48:38

I see! So when Muslims are bad, it's all because they are Muslim and when they are good, it's nothing to do with them being Muslim.

I suppose Mo. Farrah is ordinary too and his success also has nothing to do with his being a Muslim.

I still can't get over you claiming winning a Nobel Peace Prize is "ordinary". Tawakkul Karmen is far from that.

She is not ordinary and neither is Farah.
They are not brandishing islam as the building block of their moral virtue or excellence.
Just humbly acknowledging their HARD WORK.. You know, knowledge, perseverance, lucidity, self criticism, good faith, etc....
These lunatics are just crying wolf

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